Fw D9... Engine.

[Trooper117]

Can I just confirm this is an inline engine not a radial...

 

[bzc3lk]

Spoiler

 

Inverted inline v-12

Edited September 26, 2023 by LukeFF
swastikas

[MajorMagee]

Yes, a V-12.

 

p.s. Luke has a typo in his weekly history blog when he describes it as being a radial.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by MajorMagee

[BladeMeister]

6 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Can I just confirm this is an inline engine not a radial...

 

This generally is considered an inverted V12 engine. While each bank of 6 cylinders  is technically inline with each other, this is not called an inline engine. An inline engine for example is an inline 6 cylinder or the old school inline straight 8 engine as they called them back in the day. All of the cylinders are in a straight line. A straight 12 engine was even an example of an inline arrangement. That Dora is a V12 though. Nuff said!

 

S!Blade<><

Edited September 26, 2023 by BladeMeister

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, MajorMagee said:

Yes, a V-12.

 

p.s. Luke has a typo in his weekly history blog when he describes it as being a radial.

 

 

 

Yes, that post made me question my own ideas as I'd always thought it was an inline engine (but you could be mistaken for thinking otherwise as it does look like a radial with that round engine casing)... thanks for the replies chaps.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

p.s. Luke has a typo in his weekly history blog when he describes it as being a radial.

 

Thank you, it is now corrected. 

[JG1_Vonrd]

The American designation for engines was quite logical and described the layout of the particular engine. A piston engine designation has three separate elements, a type prefix, a number representing engine displacement and a model number.

Type Prefix

The type prefix is based on the engine disposition:

H	H engine
L	Inline
O	Opposed
R	Radial
V	V engine
W	W engine
X	X engine

 

A W engine is a type of piston engine where three or four cylinder banks use the same crankshaft, resembling the letter W when viewed from the front. The British Napier Lion was of this type.

 

An X engine is a piston engine with four banks of cylinders around a common crankshaft, such that the cylinders form an "X" shape when viewed front-on. The Rolls-Royce Vulture was of this type and was briefly used in the Avro Manchester heavy bomber, before engine failures caused it to be replaced by the Avro Lancaster (powered by the Rolls-Royce Merlin V12 engine).

 

Some early engines had the type letter prefixed by a modification letter

• G - geared
• I - inverted
• S - supercharged

 

For example, the Curtiss V-1150-1 is a Vee-type engine with a displacement of 1150 cubic inches and is an Army model.

 

 

 

 

The Germans were more inclined to represent their engines by the manufacturer which gave no clue as to the type of engine. For example:

 

Bayerische Motorenwerke:

• BMW VI  - a V-12 water-cooled
• BMW 801 - a 14-cylinder two-row radial, air-cooled — most-produced radial engine of the Third Reich

Daimler-Benz:

• Daimler-Benz DB 601 - inverted V-12, an improved DB 600 with fuel injection
• Daimler-Benz DB 602 - an upright V-16-cylinder diesel powered the two Hindenburg class airships

So, the German designation system gave no indication of the type of engine as opposed to the American system which was clear about the disposition and displacement.

 

 

 

 

The Brits were hung up on fanciful names for their engines... "Merlin", "Sabre", etc. which also gave no indication of layout, displacement or anything else.

Edited September 27, 2023 by JG1_Vonrd

[MAJ_stug41]

It has an annular radiator, which makes it look a bit like a radial. It is a jumo 213, of the same series of engine that is on the ju88 in this game, a jumo 211, which also has an annular radiator. Between the annular radiator, and 190As having a radial, the D is frequently mistaken to have a radial.

 

Other aircraft like the ju87 and he111 have 211s, but they are fitted with more conventional radiators.

Edited September 28, 2023 by stug41

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Its quite impressive that this small annular radiator is enough to cool both the coolant and the oil. The Dora has to be to ww2 german mass produced fighter with the lowest drag right?

[EAF19_Marsh]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:37 PM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Its quite impressive that this small annular radiator is enough to cool both the coolant and the oil. The Dora has to be to ww2 german mass produced fighter with the lowest drag right?

 

No, that would probably be the 109. But I am open to correction. It is certainly slippier than the 190A models, but physics and fluid-dynamics can get weird and counter-intuative

 

Quote

An inline engine for example is an inline 6 cylinder or the old school inline straight 8 engine as they called them back in the day

 

Cylinders mounted in a row means it is an inline engine (clue is in the name). The number of cylinder banks does not affect this as a design type.

[MAJ_stug41]

The 109s, outside of the F's and properly cowled G's, had large drag coefficients but their "flat plate areas" were still small because 109s are about as small as any wwii fighter can possibly be.

 

Greg refers to this article in his video about 190 drag, and it shows that the 190 series is surprisingly slippery, even moreso than the spits which suffered similar problems to the 109s.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/Lednicer_Fighter_Aerodynamics.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj16dKq896BAxWCtokEHZlVB0IQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw1YHs0CYsO1BP8agN9Z_hxE

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by stug41

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Exactly, the 190A had low drag for a radial, that anular oil radiator cooled by a fan is really helping, as opposed to an air scoop under the nose for instance. I think that this fan also feeds the supercharger. But the supercharger was not that effective so you can find pictures of modified 190As with an additionnal air scoop on the side of the engine for enhanced supercharging and better high alt performances. Of course that means additional drag and slightly reduced performances at lower alt.

[MAJ_stug41]

12 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Exactly, the 190A had low drag for a radial, that anular oil radiator cooled by a fan is really helping, as opposed to an air scoop under the nose for instance. I think that this fan also feeds the supercharger. But the supercharger was not that effective so you can find pictures of modified 190As with an additionnal air scoop on the side of the engine for enhanced supercharging and better high alt performances. Of course that means additional drag and slightly reduced performances at lower alt.

Yes, the 190A3/U7 to A4/U7. Larger ram air scoops for the superchargers to better feed them beyond normal critical alt. Only three of these modifications were made and they were only used for at most a month.

 

Now for a really wacky idea, an underslung turbo...

[EAF19_Marsh]

16 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Exactly, the 190A had low drag for a radial, that anular oil radiator cooled by a fan is really helping, as opposed to an air scoop under the nose for instance. I think that this fan also feeds the supercharger. But the supercharger was not that effective so you can find pictures of modified 190As with an additionnal air scoop on the side of the engine for enhanced supercharging and better high alt performances. Of course that means additional drag and slightly reduced performances at lower alt.

 

That was a test but they went back to the inlets being internal because the issue was with the wider 801 design rather than achieving better air flow.

18 hours ago, stug41 said:

even moreso than the spits which suffered similar problems to the 109s.

 

Fairly conservative radiator design. Yet it had the highest critical Mach of any major fighter, it would carry on accelerating to I think almost .9. Primarily because of the wing.

[AndyJWest]

9 hours ago, stug41 said:

Now for a really wacky idea, an underslung turbo...

 

Missed opportunity there. Should have fitted an afterburner. ?

[Asgar]

On 9/27/2023 at 5:27 AM, JG1_Vonrd said:

So, the German designation system gave no indication of the type of engine as opposed to the American system which was clear about the disposition and displacement.

That’s because it’s not a designation system. Those are just names given by the manufacturer