Discussion of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs Announcement

[Nickkyboy99]

Anything? News? Please? 😢

[Mysticpuma]

They posted these on Facebook.

New landmarks: 1. Salisbury Cathedral, 2. Crypt de la Basilique Notre-Dame and Musée de Bologne-sur-Mer 3. Château de Caen

 

 

 

[Hiuuz]

Don't get me wrong, this will be an instant buy for me on release. But I wish TFS could find some programmer/coder to this project! Just to polish few things under the hood. AI is in my mind in the first place.

[Kapteeni]

I think that focusing to VR is not good. Even it is nice addition. Just give us new map(s) and planes and true Sky. 

[Dagwoodyt]

No comments on the images yet 🤫

[Missionbug]

The new buildings are excellent, looking forward to more additions like those, congratulations to all those involved.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[BOO]

Nice models, nice images. A word or two about what can be realsitically expected in the average human lifetime would be nice but I guess thats all tied up with "This is definately it chaps" saga for the VR implementation. Seems pretty much that as long as the optimism remains that VR is in reach, that will take precedence and there will be radio silence as a result. 

[Patricks]

17 hours ago, Kapteeni said:

I think that focusing to VR is not good. Even it is nice addition. Just give us new map(s) and planes and true Sky. 

 

I agree 100%, and the upcoming Combat Pilot gets it and are moving forward in 2D with VR "coming later". No lack of support for that title, and reality is (even though i'm a VR guy and on the beta), when I want to actually FLY CLoD, I fly in 2D...

[Aapje]

12 minutes ago, Patricks said:

I agree 100%, and the upcoming Combat Pilot gets it and are moving forward in 2D with VR "coming later". No lack of support for that title, and reality is (even though i'm a VR guy and on the beta), when I want to actually FLY CLoD, I fly in 2D...

 

This is a really weird argument to make. First of all, Combat Pilot is in its infancy, while CLoD should be nearing its release. So VR being left out of CP right now is in no way comparable to CLoD releasing without VR.

 

Secondly, the technical issues are completely different, since UE5 has a VR plugin that they can just enable. So I'm not worried about VR coming to CP, as that should be relatively simple to enable.

[Patricks]

3 minutes ago, Aapje said:

 

This is a really weird argument to make. First of all, Combat Pilot is in its infancy, while CLoD should be nearing its release. So VR being left out of CP right now is in no way comparable to CLoD releasing without VR.

 

Secondly, the technical issues are completely different, since UE5 has a VR plugin that they can just enable. So I'm not worried about VR coming to CP, as that should be relatively simple to enable.

 

It was not meant as an "argument", it was to show my opinion that releasing as 2D (if necessary) carries plenty of support out there, with VR "coming".. which is exactly what the poster I was responding to stated. As a VR beta member, I know where it (and actually the 2D beta branch) currently stands.

[Dagwoodyt]

19 hours ago, Hiuuz said:

AI is in my mind in the first place.

 

18 hours ago, Kapteeni said:

Just give us new map(s) and planes and true Sky. 

 

45 minutes ago, Patricks said:

As a VR beta member, I know where it (and actually the 2D beta branch) currently stands.

What base is left is fragmented. TFS seems nowhere near being to actually implement a working VR and all they've shown are odd and sundry aircraft model images, an artillery piece and few low res buildings, on an existing map, fielded on Facebook(?). Maybe it's just Fulqrum insisting TFS stay on this forum.😒

[Patricks]

14 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

What base is left is fragmented. TFS seems nowhere near being to actually implement a working VR and all they've shown are odd and sundry aircraft model images, an artillery piece and few low res buildings, on an existing map, fielded on Facebook(?). Maybe it's just Fulqrum insisting TFS stay on this forum.😒

 

It's a niche product of a niche genre, to be honest i'm surprised it even still exists, let alone is inching forward. 

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, Patricks said:

It was not meant as an "argument", it was to show my opinion that releasing as 2D (if necessary) carries plenty of support out there, with VR "coming".. which is exactly what the poster I was responding to stated. As a VR beta member, I know where it (and actually the 2D beta branch) currently stands.

 

But a pre-pre-pre-release version releasing without VR support, and no anger over that, does not at all prove that people would not be upset if the final version would release without VR.

 

Note that Combat Pilot has promised to include VR.

[Patricks]

As it is, I already own far too many flight sims and don't really care if they EVER release anything, least of all just to satisfy the VR whiners out there... they never should have said anything.. Looking forward to Korea and Combat Box!

 

Edited December 16, 2024 by Patricks

[Dagwoodyt]

Angry at VR because the Cliffs game engine, given nearly three years "beta" experimentation, cannot run it stably? So deflect by pointing at a "pre-alpha" game because it has yet to implement VR? It's like giving Cliffs "faint but damning praise".🤔

[Kapteeni]

I have VR classes. They are okey, but how many simmers actually  use them?  I can fly about 30 min and thats it.  Teen it is back to TrackIr...i have nothing against VR. But Maybe it would be cool to publish update without it..

[PO_Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 

 

What base is left is fragmented. TFS seems nowhere near being to actually implement a working VR and all they've shown are odd and sundry aircraft model images, an artillery piece and few low res buildings, on an existing map, fielded on Facebook(?). Maybe it's just Fulqrum insisting TFS stay on this forum.😒

The beta has had a fully working VR implementation with all the graphical improvements of the Visual Update for quite sometime. For anyone with a decent PC and prepared to jump through some hoops and tinker with PC settings it has been possible to get a pretty reliable enough and very playable VR rendition of Cliffs of Dover. In my own experience I could typically fly for hours between crashes, although sometimes it might be minutes. Fine for quick mission stuff, obviously not so good for longer missions.

 

That VR isn't suitable for wider release adds to the frustration because it is IMHO an excellent implementation of VR. The only thing holding it back has been the crashing bugs which TFS seem to now be squashing.

 

TFS as an organisation of volunteers don't have to prioritise funding on whether to hire software engineers or graphics artists, so I don't see VR development holding things up, it would seem work is progressing on all fronts. Never fast enough but that is the nature of the beast.

 

 

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, Patricks said:

As it is, I already own far too many flight sims and don't really care if they EVER release anything, least of all just to satisfy the VR whiners out there... they never should have said anything.. Looking forward to Korea and Combat Box!

 

It's rather rude to refer to people with different opinion as whiners. You can also use arguments, instead of insults.

 

And what I've noticed is that it's actually mostly the people who do not want VR in the release that are shouting the hardest, with the pro-VR people mostly just responding to that.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, PO_Baldrick said:

The beta has had a fully working VR implementation with all the graphical improvements of the Visual Update for quite sometime. For anyone with a decent PC and prepared to jump through some hoops and tinker with PC settings it has been possible to get a pretty reliable enough and very playable VR rendition of Cliffs of Dover. In my own experience I could typically fly for hours between crashes, although sometimes it might be minutes. Fine for quick mission stuff, obviously not so good for longer missions.

 

That VR isn't suitable for wider release adds to the frustration because it is IMHO an excellent implementation of VR. The only thing holding it back has been the crashing bugs which TFS seem to now be squashing.

 

TFS as an organisation of volunteers don't have to prioritise funding on whether to hire software engineers or graphics artists, so I don't see VR development holding things up, it would seem work is progressing on all fronts. Never fast enough but that is the nature of the beast.

 

 

It is not easy to square this assessment with the bizarre Team' communications pattern on display here.🤨

[Nickkyboy99]

 

They changed their cover photo on Facebook 

[Mysticpuma]

Big step forward to releasing FaF in December 2024 😂

[BladeMeister]

I am ready to be a guinea pig if TFS is ready to put it out there. 🎄

 

S!Blade<><

[PO_Baldrick]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

It is not easy to square this assessment with the bizarre Team' communications pattern on display here.🤨

Buzzsaw wrote in June "As it stands, VR is well implemented in the game... the feedback from the VR Beta users is the CLIFFS VR experience is excellent, as good or better than GREAT BATTLES or DCS.

 

Unfortunately while the player's VR  experience in CLIFFS might last for 20 minutes to a half hour, crashes usually occur after that."

 

That pretty much concurs with my post. It works really well and has for quite some time, only the crashes have made it non viable for wider release. The recent updates look very promising to have potentially fixed the cause. I think they are being cautious to ensure it really really is fixed before any fanfares, which makes sense to me, so the due testing process continues.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

[Hiuuz]

I can't wait to spend my saved money on it 😃

[Hiuuz]

Hmm. I'm thinking, and a thaught turned in my head. They struggle with the graphical update but that not meaning the FoF addon not going well. I think the FoF release make sense only after the graphical update, but that not mean we can't get FoF before it, even at this christmas 🤔

Edited December 17, 2024 by Hiuuz

[Patricks]

I'm happy to say some real improvements have been made to the VR beta quite recently, and changes are happening much more rapidly than earlier this year.. 

[AWC]

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

[No.54_Reddog]

1 hour ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

Oh goody. We are back in the land of the pre announcement of the announcement. What's the excuse going to be this time for why TFS yet again spectacularly failed to deliver to their own stated deadlines? The dog ate his homework?

 

Congratulations Soto_Cinematics for taking on the most cursed and thankless task in the history of mankind.

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 hour ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

 

I've read something like this before from a PR predecessor!

What have ya been doing all year? Did ya get the role for this glowing endorsement of Cliffs? 😆

[Hoots]

1 hour ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

 

I wouldn't normally pile on but as a PR message from a PR manager this definitely leaves a little to be desired?

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

Good luck 👍 

[AWC]

41 minutes ago, Hoots said:

 

I wouldn't normally pile on but as a PR message from a PR manager this definitely leaves a little to be desired?

 

This is just a heads up, wait until the main event.

[Missionbug]

2 hours ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year.

 

I thought there was something familiar, might those Air War Chronicles videos be yours good sir?

If so excellent, I watched the second last night.

 

Congratulations on the new job.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Hiuuz]

3 hours ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

For the record I am the PR manager of TFS and have been since early this year. TFS acknowledges the delay of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs. Buzzsaw has stated that he is soon to make an announcement. This will be accompanied by an update detailing what has been happening. Things are not as dire as some might make it out to be and we have done much in the last months of the year - more detail on this soon.

 

Good to know somebody take the role, and I wish you help TFS in communication. I point two thing in my mind. In the future do not make statements about deadlines. TFS motto should be "we release when its ready", at Falcon BMS it works since a decade. An other thing is "dev blog". If every second month we get an official statement about the state of the developement, that would reduce the dissatisfied comments. Lot of the fans don't know how hard to implement eg. a new thing into an existing code. It can happen that a dev has no time to work on the project because of real life things. (Getting married, a child is born, moving to an other house). I think the community will be more understanding with a constant communication.

[5th_Barone]

1 hour ago, Hiuuz said:

 

Good to know somebody take the role, and I wish you help TFS in communication. I point two thing in my mind. In the future do not make statements about deadlines. TFS motto should be "we release when its ready", at Falcon BMS it works since a decade. An other thing is "dev blog". If every second month we get an official statement about the state of the developement, that would reduce the dissatisfied comments. Lot of the fans don't know how hard to implement eg. a new thing into an existing code. It can happen that a dev has no time to work on the project because of real life things. (Getting married, a child is born, moving to an other house). I think the community will be more understanding with a constant communication.

+1

[marcost]

Is that jam as in "jam tomorrow"?

 

[Kapteeni]

I still play CloD almost  every week. Great game, but beginnig was a disaster. When TFS took over, they did great Job fixing it. Still one of the best WW2 games!

[CAG_Sanders]

I really appreciate all the effort TFS is putting into Cliffs, but with the pace of development I am afraid they are going to miss the boat. I know those that love Cliffs and play flat screen want to just launch, but I doubt Dieppe is even close to being ready for launch. Their development is so fragmented it seems, which makes sense as its mostly a labor of love. 

 

I do imagine their is also pressure to release VR with Dieppe to capitalize as many people buying at full price as possible. VR may not be the majority in flight sims, but I think it's a lot more then some here realize. I doubt very many VR players will buy at launch if VR is unavailable. And if it just comes down the pipe later people might decide not to buy or will have bought it on an discount. Also VR has made big strides in the last couple months but really is not there yet at all.   

 

Lastly I don't know if it's the corporate overlords or their own doing, but the announcement from a year out then last minute delays really are a bad. Especially when you have a dying product to begin with. It was obvious they weren't going to release on time when most of the development updates were showing plane models for the next dlc past Dieppe. 

[PO_Baldrick]

7 minutes ago, I./JG3_Col_Sanders said:

I really appreciate all the effort TFS is putting into Cliffs, but with the pace of development I am afraid they are going to miss the boat.

I am not sure quite what that boat is?

 

My view is that TFS are a bunch of enthusiasts creating the simulation they want and like minded enthusiasts can enjoy too. It is hard to see it being a big selling title, I don't see TFS members getting rich, nor their publishers more than a trickle to keep the relationship alive. Players who enjoy CLIFFS may get frustrated because the player base is small but as others have mentioned this is a niche within a niche.

 

Again totally my opinion but I am not really convinced customers really matter in the traditional sense of vendor/buyer relationship. I don't believe market forces and company profit goals would take on a legacy game engine as TFS have, it is for their own satisfaction rather than personal gain other than a very modest income stream.

 

TFS have identified a sim engine with huge potential worth their time, if they can develop it to keep it current in terms of graphics etc. and provide the features and realisn they strive for then we, as combat sim enthusiasts, win. If it fails then we simply play something else. I don't see the need for spoon feeding the community with development updates every few weeks to try to keep customers interested in some fear they will migrate to another product. If we are talking boats then that ship sailed a long time ago...