|| - It is time to make "Battle of France" - ||

[GOZR]

We all know that pacific is on the making with the new " Combat Pilot" are making "pacific" We know that IL2 Blitz is MTO ( North Arica ) .. What is missing the most and we have a lot already and this is the scenario with the most uniques aircraft and dogfights and bombers .. This would be an exceptional extension.

 

All those aircraft would be amazing if the atmospheric physics and engines management get a good doze of TLC.

 

 

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Edited August 6, 2023 by GOZR

[Juri_JS]

Nothing wrong with Battle of France, but I have a feeling that the team is working on something else.

[Avimimus]

It is an interesting battle!

 

I made this thread discussing the possible plane-set (Note: It assumes that a Battle of Britain module has already been completed:

 

 

 

[Talisman]

Not interested in the Battle of France from the air perspective.  French Air Force was not well organised (weak and ill prepared) and RAF support was limited.  I have never understood the attraction for the BoF in terms of combat flight simulation.

 

Why Did the French Air Force Fail in 1940? (historynet.com)

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

P.S.  Suggest most votes might be in favour as most folks in favour tend to make more of an effort to give a positive response to those not interested at all, who will often not bother to respond. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Avimimus]

14 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Not interested in the Battle of France from the air perspective.  French Air Force was not well organised (weak and ill prepared) and RAF support was limited.  I have never understood the attraction for the BoF in terms of combat flight simulation.

 

Some of us really like being the 'underdog'

 

Also:

 

- It is also much more balanced than the Normandy module is (IRL the Allies managed something like 49 sorties for every German sortie during Normandy). We think of Normandy and Bodenplatte as being 'good modules', but they objectively have much less balanced aerial activity than the Battle of France.

 

- It wasn't small... there were ~3450 aircraft shot down during the battle... plenty of combat. You also get a completely different airforce from what we are used to - in the form of the French airforce... and it contains both very 1930s types/doctrines and a few very advanced types (e.g. Lioré et Olivier LeO 451). 

 

- It is very easy to use an alternate history scenario to extend the battle by another month: No Mechelen incident, no breakthrough in the Ardennes, France gets a few more weeks to adjust its doctrines, and the battle lasts another month. See: Mechelen incident - Wikipedia

 

 

Honestly, I think the situation is similar to before Il-2 was released... people would have said that they were, is I may paraphrase: "Not interested in the Eastern Front from the air perspective. The Soviet Air Force was not well organised (weak and ill prepared), and consisted mainly of small groups of aircraft over a large front. I have never understood the attraction for the BoM in terms of combat flight simulation."

 

I think having a full fidelity module could change that! It might be more interesting than we think.

 

Of course, there are some downsides... particularly a lot of 1930s doctrinal issues still existed. Aircraft like the Fairy Battle and Westland Lysander will have a hard time, and the Potez 630 was simply a bit slow for its envisioned role... it could catch the Ju-87B but it might need an altitude advantage and/or end up fighting defensively when encountering enemy fighters.

 

It could make sense as a grouping of three modules: Battle of Britain -> Battle of France (full or half module) -> North Africa (French types were used by both sides until ~1942, so they would be useful there as well).

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'd like to see it simply for the infusion of different aircraft types. Any scenario that lets me fly the Curtiss Hawk 75 and D.520 is a good thing.

[FliegerAD]

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Not interested in the Battle of France from the air perspective.  French Air Force was not well organised (weak and ill prepared) and RAF support was limited.  I have never understood the attraction for the BoF in terms of combat flight simulation.

 

 

New and fresh aircraft rarely seen in actual sims.

 

We are not playing a strategy game, so organisational aspects do not matter much.

 

Also, speaking of "weak and ill prepared" - have you ever researched the state of the Luftwaffe compared to that of the western Allies on D-Day? ?

[Avimimus]

35 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I'd like to see it simply for the infusion of different aircraft types. Any scenario that lets me fly the Curtiss Hawk 75 and D.520 is a good thing.

 

Yeah - I think that is one of the distinctions. People who are new to the genre will be very excited to fly a P-51 or Fw-190A8... those of us who have a longer history (i.e. people who have been playing sims for years or decades) will still like these familiar aircraft, but we will also want something different and more exotic.

 

I think they really hit the right combination with Battle of Normandy - mixing higher performance aircraft (Arado Ar-234, Spitfire XIV), with aircraft not modelled in a sim before (Me-410, Ju-88C-6a), and aircraft which provide very different roles/experiences (e.g. Ju-88C-6a)...

 

This approach works really well for a full module, as there is something for everyone... everyone has at least one plane to motivate them to pick up the set. I'm less certain that it works (from as sales perspective) for individual Collector Planes... but I'm excited that they are providing similar diversity (Li-2, Waco glider, Ta-152, I-153 etc.) in the announced additions.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Really looking forward to the I-153.  I think it will be a lot of fun.

[GOZR]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It is an interesting battle!

 

I made this thread discussing the possible plane-set (Note: It assumes that a Battle of Britain module has already been completed:

 

 

 

Absolutely great yes !  Great great scenario 

[GOZR]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:24 AM, Juri_JS said:

Nothing wrong with Battle of France, but I have a feeling that the team is working on something else.

Well it is very important but somehow I doubt it is with "Combat Pilot" I hope and the best by far business style is what Asobo team are doing. They making revamp the core sim to the highest level with out penalizing the airplanes .. 

It is like if IL2 would redo more complex core and we keep all the planes we paid a fortune to obtain.. all FM will be much more accurate because they are actually incorporating more damage models and the atmospherics physics that will make flight incredibly good.. I really don't wish for a Rise of Flight fiasco.. when Jason drop all rof for incorporating to il2.. that was great imo but RoF got drop like a pair of old socks while many were hoping and invested a lot into it myself included. So we don't want this nether do they.. All those great RoF aircraft, hopefully coming into IL2.  

Now we forget about il2 team dev. They want the best.. they want to be great because it is their creation.. job and passion even more so than us.. this is forgotten.. for decades now we are accutumate to read .. visit.. and fly in this creation.. IL2.. IL2 FB.. IL21946..IL2GB

How cool is that.. I founded long ago a league at the time to the high competition.. servers vs servers team to end to make competitions country to country.. what a blast! USA vs France. Germany.. UK.. Russia etc..  IL2 has given us the opportunities for us RL pilots get the opportunity to mix with virtual pilots and developers to fly together. Incredible.. how many of you had the chance to fly with the devs here.. and Oleg.. etc.. we did .. il2 is great.. and we need to give back to them no matter where they are from..  Many new comers don't know and they are just like us passionate of aviation. 

We need more inter-communications with the now developers.   Now more then ever

 

For my part I will always love the "East Front" because it was where the air battles . Affronted not just defenses or just attack unlike in Normandie..

Due to the close relation with French aviation's design and the real Russian aircraft and flew MiG15 and the Yak9UM include build in RL it sparked my interest to the il2 sim. 

 

Normandie Niemen is very good to develop more for sure in my opinion.. East front with more details.. is absolutely great.

 

We need Battle of France more than ever.. new forgotten awesome aircraft.. with a more complex atmospheric physics all .. all aircraft are fun to fly.. there is no doubt in my mind. All early aircraft are amazing embracing defects and qualities.. caracthers are what make the aircraft.. 

Flying an early 109 and a Dewoitine is extremely fun and attractive.. and all those insane bombers.. 

what can we do as a whole to actually help.. but we need communications.

Edited August 7, 2023 by GOZR
Best typos speller on my phone :) at a café outdoors.

[Avimimus]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:11 AM, Avimimus said:

It could make sense as a grouping of three modules: Battle of Britain -> Battle of France (full or half module) -> North Africa (French types were used by both sides until ~1942, so they would be useful there as well).

 

Just to be clear - I'm saying that there is a natural grouping of modules here (based on overlapping airplane variants). From the public statements I've seen, it doesn't make it seem like Team Fusion is headed in this direction in the foreseeable future.

[357th_KW]

I wonder if it would be possible using the surface editor to convert the existing "Western Front" map into a France 1940 map.  Then you just need a few collector planes (Hawk 75, Hurricane I, 109E-1/3, 110C) and you are off and running.  Using that Western Front map, along with Rhineland and Normandy, you could really do most of the 1940 campaign.

[Enceladus828]

8 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

I wonder if it would be possible using the surface editor to convert the existing "Western Front" map into a France 1940 map.  Then you just need a few collector planes (Hawk 75, Hurricane I, 109E-1/3, 110C) and you are off and running.  Using that Western Front map, along with Rhineland and Normandy, you could really do most of the 1940 campaign.

You would have to remodel the 1944 airfields to how they looked in 1940 and make all the necessary changes to the map to make it look how it looked in 1940. Not an easy task.

[357th_KW]

32 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

You would have to remodel the 1944 airfields to how they looked in 1940 and make all the necessary changes to the map to make it look how it looked in 1940. Not an easy task.

 

Rhineland and Normandy are already close enough for the most part.  Obviously not perfect, but you can easily use them with a few tweaks as needed in the mission editor.

 

I was thinking the new "Western Front" WWI map.  It would certainly be a challenge to remove no man's land.  But who doesn't want to fly their early Hurricane under the Thionville bridge?

[Enceladus828]

14 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

Rhineland and Normandy are already close enough for the most part.  Obviously not perfect, but you can easily use them with a few tweaks as needed in the mission editor.

A comment was made by LukeFF which also declared there are some airfields that didn't exist in 1940: BF109G-6AS - Worth It? - Page 2 - General Discussion - IL-2 Sturmovik Forum (il2sturmovik.com)

 

 

If you want a 1940 France and Low Countries map, you'll most likely get it with an actual Battle of France scenario. If you want to do your own 1940 scenarios on the Normandy and Rhineland map feel free, but don't expect all we're missing for a proper 1940 scenario are a few planes.

 

Check out PWCG which has 1941-43 Channel Map scenarios and you can fly the Ju-87 in the BoM Pilot Career. He's quite lenient with certain aircraft variants not being present at the respective area: the Ju-87D-3 wasn't at Moscow but the differences between it and the Ju-87B-2 are small enough that it doesn't really matter.

 

 

[Trooper117]

I'd certainly buy Battle of France, I can't see me buying any more Eastern Front stuff... although I would be tempted by a Murmansk map and campaign, (I enjoyed flying on that with the old IL2) 

[kraut1]

Yes, Battle of France would be great!

 

[Avimimus]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:43 AM, Trooper117 said:

I'd certainly buy Battle of France, I can't see me buying any more Eastern Front stuff... although I would be tempted by a Murmansk map and campaign, (I enjoyed flying on that with the old IL2) 

 

Well, what if it has Fw-190A9, Bf-109G10, Ju-188, Fi-156, Tu-2, Yak-3, La-7, Yak-9 (late)... and maybe for Collector Planes a He-162 alongside P-40N or P-39Q or P-63 (if we ignore the fact that the P-63 was likely only used in the Far East)... surely there is at least something in there to tempt you? No?

[Trooper117]

Not for me mate, sorry... I wouldn't go for that. The only hankering for more Eastern Front action for me would be Murmansk, intercepting and raiding the Luftwaffe across to Petsamo...

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

Not for me mate, sorry... I wouldn't go for that. The only hankering for more Eastern Front action for me would be Murmansk, intercepting and raiding the Luftwaffe across to Petsamo...

 

Admittedly - as a Canadian - I've always loved the Murmansk theatre.  Also an excuse to get a Pe-3.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind some of the aircraft in the '45 East list. I find it interesting that both the Ju-188 and Tu-2 have two dorsal gunner positions (and one ventral) - and both can carry heavy machine guns (or cannons) in all three... also, they had forward firing cannons... it'd make for interesting targets to say the least

[Gambit21]

Battle of France would not a be a commercial success. 

Look for "Not Italy" coming next, then PTO for a while.

 

 

[Mtnbiker1998]

No, I really don't think its time for Battle of France. If not for the "New Project" I'd say the next logical step should be a smaller bundle of aircraft to flesh out Channel ops, 1942/43 planes for the Western Allies, a couple more seasons for the Normandy map and an expanded career mode. A huge chunk of the stuff needed is already in the sim, the map is already built and the Luftwaffe already has just about everything from the Eastern front DLCs.

 

Fingers crossed a 3rd party wants to jump in and fill those gaps, but given how little we've heard of that aside from the IAR 80 and the Finland map, I'm not too optimistic anyone wants to develop for the "Old project"

[303_Bies]

Together with Mediterranean, Battle of France could be second best is Pacific would be impossible.

Historically relevant, not overly expolited so fresh experience, interesting gameplay revolving around support of advancing/defending mechanized ground troops, well documented, but not very popular French aviation being a mix of old and few modern types matchng German counterparts + British early Spitfire Mk I or Hurricane as collector plane. Overall atmostperic and engaging.

 

It could be an impulse to develop and improve overall ground battle aspect of the game, advancing mechanized formations, trenches, bunkers, artillery, maybe simple/low resource significant numbers of infantry etc.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by LukeFF
swastikas

[Trooper117]

Yes they should make it... then they can sit back and laugh at us lot arguing with each other as to why the Jerries won!

[FlyinCoffin]

no one would like to set the clock(prop pitch) in the e1-e3 manually. LOL!!!

Edited September 4, 2023 by FlyinCoffin

[kraut1]

13 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

no one would like to set the clock(prop pitch) in the e1-e3 manually. LOL!!!

Yes, much work!

But I flew already some 20 missions E7 with E3 skin with manually prop pitch control and it works, for me easier than with IL2 1946.

It's always much work and difficult to get the full performance and avoid to exeed the rpm limts.

[FlyinCoffin]

 

 

clod also gets you the experience of flying the e1 and e3 which has to set the clock manually all the time.

 

but you are my hero ; D 

 

btw its not clear what you mean. But I did understand that you tried already to fly an old bf109 e

 

 

p.s.: I would love to have the spanish theatre of war, I-16 vs bf109 like cold war f-86 vs mig-15

Edited September 5, 2023 by FlyinCoffin

[kraut1]

1 hour ago, FlyinCoffin said:

 

 

clod also gets you the experience of flying the e1 and e3 which has to set the clock manually all the time.

 

but you are my hero ; D 

 

btw its not clear what you mean. But I did understand that you tried already to fly an old bf109 e

 

 

p.s.: I would love to have the spanish theatre of war, I-16 vs bf109 like cold war f-86 vs mig-15

I have modded a bit Vander's EMG.

It is only a stop gap solution but I myself like it.

For SCW I have prepared something too:

And a small weapon mod to reduce the 20mm MF-FF to something like a machinegun.

But I have not flown campaign missions.

 

 

[FlyinCoffin]

have you ever tried the e1 and or e3 in clod?

 

I recommand that. greetings

[kraut1]

6 minutes ago, FlyinCoffin said:

have you ever tried the e1 and or e3 in clod?

 

I recommand that. greetings

E3 often with manual prop control. , E1 I don't like the weak armament.

[FlyinCoffin]

yeah someone in this forum called the armanent are "pea shooters" .

 

but what do you want to do if your order to attack and your work machine is a e1?

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by FlyinCoffin

[kraut1]

2 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

yeah someone in this forum called the armanent are "pea shooters" .

 

but what do you want to do if your order to attack and your work machine is a e1?

 

If it is required by the career settings I fly it.

When flying vs. fighters with water cooled engines with a BF109 E1 with only machine guns I try to hit the cooler which is in general effective. But it is very difficult to hit a small cooler in a dogfight and you need often much time to score a hit which means that you are vulnarable to attacks.

Edited September 5, 2023 by kraut1

[FlyinCoffin]

22 hours ago, kraut1 said:

 

already pro talk. Iam happy if I hit anything with the guns. lol

[=BLW=Pablo]

Give me an Arsenal VG33, and I'll take down a lot of 109 E1 and E3.

 

[Trooper117]

On 9/20/2024 at 4:29 AM, =BLW=Pablo said:

Give me an Arsenal VG33, and I'll take down a lot of 109 E1 and E3.

 

Really?... in real life it was plagued by problems and never saw combat!

[kraut1]

for the time until BoF is released:

A small mod for BF109-E3 to remove the hint for the Automatik Propeller Control ("Luftschraubenautomatik" / typical for E4/e7):

old:                                        new:

A BF109-E7 flown with manual propeller control and modded 20mm grenades (e.g. the russian 20mm with reduced explosive charge) is very similar to the E3.

[Blitzen]

I'd say wait for the Bf-109E-4 this Fall...maybe even a decent BoB scenarion,after all CloD VR isstill being worked on....

( and maybe a drivable MG TA?)

[kraut1]

On 6/3/2025 at 5:39 PM, Blitzen said:

I'd say wait for the Bf-109E-4 this Fall...maybe even a decent BoB scenarion,after all CloD VR isstill being worked on....

( and maybe a drivable MG TA?)

Good idea Blitzen!

Have just started my next Luftwaffe 1940-45 career:

(with manual rpm control and standard 20mm MG-FF HE shells)

 

Edited July 18 by kraut1

[kraut1]