Necksafer? possible course change, need recommendation for VR set for older computer

July 25, 2023

Hello again,

I posted a day or so ago asking for monitor recommendations, as due to my age and concerns about neck injury I sold my Oculus Rift and was preparing to go TIR. However, I just discovered the Necksafer software, and this might save the day, it seems a real gamechanger from the responses I read.

I might well decide to shop for a used VR headset if my system can handle it if you think, if some of you might look over my set up and advise on which older headset it can handle. My computer was a start up purchase just to get me going rather than sink a small fortune up front; it has a RTX2060Super, intel i7-9700F, 16Gh memory,500 ssd, 1GB hdd [purchased at BB in 2018, not a custom build, so components are not top end] As I mentioned in my previous post, it has sat idle for 4 years, but I would like to use it for training.

I also purchased and installed a Artic ice cooler, with a unique install in that I got the larger 2 fan model (greatest total air flow of the models at the time) I built a nice custom wood case for it with rollers, and cut a portion of the upper computer case screen so that I could pass the 2 water hoses and head through and install. It sits across the case side walls when in use, and stores at the back inside the case. So this will allow some greater capacity for a higher demand on my limited set up.

So those in the know, please advise re Reverb, Pico, Valve index, Pimax [this caught my interest, a 200 FOV?!?] or what ever used set my present set up can handle. I expect to fly mostly training flights, offline, really using this phase to learn the VR world, and then invest in a proper VR computer and headset when I'm up to speed.

I prefer not to go with Steam and Meta [I didn't like so many things running, the Open Composite seems the way I'd prefer. So Oculus Rift is a no go.

Thanks for you time and any advise you can offer.

p3

July 25, 2023

With that GPU on any of the decent headsets, you're going to be challenged and forced to make a lot of graphical-quality compromises. Ideally you need at least a 3080. My 3080ti runs IL2 decently on my Pico4. Lower than a 3080 I'd rather not play.

July 25, 2023

2 hours ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

With that GPU on any of the decent headsets, you're going to be challenged and forced to make a lot of graphical-quality compromises. Ideally you need at least a 3080. My 3080ti runs IL2 decently on my Pico4. Lower than a 3080 I'd rather not play.

That's what I suspected, I only used the Oculus Rift briefly, and was just learning all the adjustments downward on the graphic settings, but I do plan on very limited single plane, or single combat scenarios as a training set up only, so I could live with low settings. I don't think the unit I have could handle a 3080ti, but I'll look into it.

What headsets are comparable in demand on resources to the Oculus Rift S?

July 25, 2023

The Reverb G2 would work really well for you at low settings, and when you decide to upgrade your CPU & GPU you'll have a better idea (like the rest of us) how the newer VR HMDs are working out. With the latest in software updates from Windows, Nvidia, OpenXR and the games themselves, the RTX 4090 and i9-13900k is prefect for running VR right now (for example). I own the 13900k, 4090 & Varjo Arrow HMD and it's almost as good as a 4k monitor. I'm waiting for the Somnium VR1 due out in Sept. https://discord.gg/AUWwmhdz

About the time you decide to upgrade to your new gaming rig, the picture as to what the right system & VR HMD to get will be more clear. You'll want to use OpenXR going forward with any VR you're using IMO, here's the discord link to the guy who's been really helping to move VR forward for us all, @mbucchia is his name and you'll find lots of info there to help you decide as well: https://discord.gg/kMA5eQdH

Edit, also the Open XR toolkit will work wonders in improving your VR performance with your present system right now.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Drum

July 25, 2023

The Samsung Odyssey + maybe ?

July 25, 2023

13 hours ago, Drum said:

The Reverb G2 would work really well for you at low settings, and when you decide to upgrade your CPU & GPU you'll have a better idea (like the rest of us) how the newer VR HMDs are working out. With the latest in software updates from Windows, Nvidia, OpenXR and the games themselves, the RTX 4090 and i9-13900k is prefect for running VR right now (for example). I own the 13900k, 4090 & Varjo Arrow HMD and it's almost as good as a 4k monitor. I'm waiting for the Somnium VR1 due out in Sept. https://discord.gg/AUWwmhdz

About the time you decide to upgrade to your new gaming rig, the picture as to what the right system & VR HMD to get will be more clear. You'll want to use OpenXR going forward with any VR you're using IMO, here's the discord link to the guy who's been really helping to move VR forward for us all, @mbucchia is his name and you'll find lots of info there to help you decide as well: https://discord.gg/kMA5eQdH

Edit, also the Open XR toolkit will work wonders in improving your VR performance with your present system right now.

Thanks much, good info and I will investigate those sources. Part of me is disappointed at the thought of setting aside VR and going with monitor, but my system is challenged - I bought it before seriously thinking about VR, was planning on Tir, so adding the Artic cooler was a Hail Mary to hopefully pull off a small miracle to use VR with my borderline/subpar pc. It did handle my Oculus Rift S in my limited use, and I wouldn't be putting a lot of demand on it, ie, complex multi-plane missions, high settings graphic use, etc., just training use to get up and running and competent with VR flying and tech experience.

I'll be mulling it over the next week or so, I go back and forth, but your info about the Reverb G2 has rekindled my inclination to stay in the VR game, albeit in a very limited environment.

There is still the concern about neck injury, it would be great if the VR developers added a Tir like partial movement/extended in play head turning as part of the game though. I understand from another respondent that the Headsafer uses a head snap like feature, while a step in the right direction, needs to be smoothed out to function just as seamlessly as the Tir head motion extender.

So I'll be in my little trainer while you guys are touching the stars, but I'll get there someday. Events just overtook me, but it's all good.

Thanks again,

p3

1 hour ago, Solmyr said:

The Samsung Odyssey + maybe ?

I'll look it over, thanks

July 26, 2023

7 hours ago, puyo3 said:

Thanks much, good info and I will investigate those sources. Part of me is disappointed at the thought of setting aside VR and going with monitor, but my system is challenged - I bought it before seriously thinking about VR, was planning on Tir, so adding the Artic cooler was a Hail Mary to hopefully pull off a small miracle to use VR with my borderline/subpar pc. It did handle my Oculus Rift S in my limited use, and I wouldn't be putting a lot of demand on it, ie, complex multi-plane missions, high settings graphic use, etc., just training use to get up and running and competent with VR flying and tech experience.

I'll be mulling it over the next week or so, I go back and forth, but your info about the Reverb G2 has rekindled my inclination to stay in the VR game, albeit in a very limited environment.

There is still the concern about neck injury, it would be great if the VR developers added a Tir like partial movement/extended in play head turning as part of the game though. I understand from another respondent that the Headsafer uses a head snap like feature, while a step in the right direction, needs to be smoothed out to function just as seamlessly as the Tir head motion extender.

So I'll be in my little trainer while you guys are touching the stars, but I'll get there someday. Events just overtook me, but it's all good.

Thanks again,

p3

I'll look it over, thanks

I know the feeling, same situation I had in 2017 when the first Rift came out, I bought it but my i7-7700 & GTX 1060 only allowed for off-line gunnery practice and engine control etc. it worked great for that too. The damn cost of everything though is crazy and I was needing a HOTAS, everything. So yes test before committing. @NobiWan 's XRNeckSafer at https://discord.gg/gK5ZWHSa is the only reason I could look back as well, plus better then a swivel chair ;^) The OpenXR Toolkit will work really well to help sharpen your image. Your system will work well with those aids until you decide to commit IMO. ?

July 26, 2023

I think the most fitting HMD for your PC is the Rift S. At least according to my own experience.

When I still had my RTX 2060 Ryzen 5 3600 combo, I always felt like my rig was just out of reach of smooth 80 fps, and the 2060 Super is more of a 2070 than a 2060, especially if you OC it.

July 27, 2023

15 hours ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

I think the most fitting HMD for your PC is the Rift S. At least according to my own experience.

When I still had my RTX 2060 Ryzen 5 3600 combo, I always felt like my rig was just out of reach of smooth 80 fps, and the 2060 Super is more of a 2070 than a 2060, especially if you OC it.

[having to retype, forgot to hit submit reply ~~~~~

I had no complaint about the Rift S, but I didn't care to need to go through Apple/Meta, whatever it is, AND have Steam running while flying. It seems that Open Composite [Open Vr, are these the same thing?] is the better way to avoid so much background activity [and resource drain I would think], so with my borderline situation every bit of saved resource counts!

How would you compare the Oculus Rift S with the Reverb G2 Drum mentioned above in his reply? I believe it has a wider FOV, and I believe it has built in headphones, both seem to be in the range of my underwhelming pc.

thanks for the input,

p3

Edited July 27, 2023 by puyo3

July 27, 2023

20 hours ago, Drum said:

I know the feeling, same situation I had in 2017 when the first Rift came out, I bought it but my i7-7700 & GTX 1060 only allowed for off-line gunnery practice and engine control etc. it worked great for that too. The damn cost of everything though is crazy and I was needing a HOTAS, everything. So yes test before committing. @NobiWan 's XRNeckSafer at https://discord.gg/gK5ZWHSa is the only reason I could look back as well, plus better then a swivel chair ;^) The OpenXR Toolkit will work really well to help sharpen your image. Your system will work well with those aids until you decide to commit IMO. ?

Thanks, I will need to investigate further as to Oculus Rift S, Reverb G2, or perhaps other older units that I could possibly use. Both of the above are excellent sets, I'm sure, but it's pretty much a try and see at some point. I would like to not have Meta and Steam running, rather go with Open Composite [Open VR??] as I understand this would save resources, and hopefully simplify use, I'll have to find out.

I'm still using my CH products pedals, I picked up their throttle and the I think it's called Fighter stick, the one with the greater amount of buttons, or multi-function buttons than the Combat stick. Their throttle unit also has a generous amount of switches, buttons, mini-joystick, 4-way buttons, etc., so I should be able to muddle along fairly well with the black out of VR without needing to invest in new Hotas for awhile.

Does the OpenXR Toolkit walk you through the tuning process? I realize from my first foray into forum use in 2019 that I will have to get to it and research, research, research, but as I said in another post, this is where AI could interface with users and manufactures, cut through all the work and time of trying to marry all the right components, system quirks and snags, etc., so I say come on, AI !

p3

15 hours ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

I think the most fitting HMD for your PC is the Rift S. At least according to my own experience.

When I still had my RTX 2060 Ryzen 5 3600 combo, I always felt like my rig was just out of reach of smooth 80 fps, and the 2060 Super is more of a 2070 than a 2060, especially if you OC it.

Also, not sure but as it was lower end components, I'm pretty sure the 2060 Super cannot be overclocked.

Edited July 27, 2023 by puyo3

July 27, 2023

1 hour ago, puyo3 said:

Also, not sure but as it was lower end components, I'm pretty sure the 2060 Super cannot be overclocked.

Hey,

every Nvidia card can be OCed, and it‘s actually pretty easy.

You can‘t even directly damage it through OCing, you just shorten it’s life due to the higher wear and tear caused by higher temps and higher voltages. Ever since the 2000 gen Nvidia implemented limits of what you could do with your card.

Just follow any YT tutorial on OC with MSI afterburner and you should be golden.

July 27, 2023

1 hour ago, puyo3 said:

I had no complaint about the Rift S, but I didn't care to need to go through Apple/Meta, whatever it is, AND have Steam running while flying. It seems that Open Composite [Open Vr, are these the same thing?] is the better way to avoid so much background activity [and resource drain I would think], so with my borderline situation every bit of saved resource counts!

How would you compare the Oculus Rift S with the Reverb G2 Drum mentioned above in his reply?

Opencomposite is pretty easy to install, and it‘ll give you a substantial boost. But you’ll need another 3rd party program to get customisation options like in Steam VR, which will not cost nearly as much resources as SteamVR.

I recommend to use the OpenXR Toolkit, it works perfectly fine with the XRnecksafer version of VRnecksafer.

Just follow these instructions to get the Toolkit and OpenComposite running:

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/opencomposite

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/

As for the Reverb G2, I personally have no experience with it.

I‘m still on my Rift S due to the Microsoft VR ecosystem, on which the G2 runs, kinda being abandoned.

My personal recommendation would be stick with the Rift S until you‘re able to upgrade your PC, but then again, you can always just get a better HMD and lower the resolution, it‘ll probably still look better than the Rift S.

July 27, 2023

21 hours ago, puyo3 said:

Thanks, I will need to investigate further as to Oculus Rift S, Reverb G2, or perhaps other older units that I could possibly use. Both of the above are excellent sets, I'm sure, but it's pretty much a try and see at some point. I would like to not have Meta and Steam running, rather go with Open Composite [Open VR??] as I understand this would save resources, and hopefully simplify use, I'll have to find out.

I'm still using my CH products pedals, I picked up their throttle and the I think it's called Fighter stick, the one with the greater amount of buttons, or multi-function buttons than the Combat stick. Their throttle unit also has a generous amount of switches, buttons, mini-joystick, 4-way buttons, etc., so I should be able to muddle along fairly well with the black out of VR without needing to invest in new Hotas for awhile.

Does the OpenXR Toolkit walk you through the tuning process? I realize from my first foray into forum use in 2019 that I will have to get to it and research, research, research, but as I said in another post, this is where AI could interface with users and manufactures, cut through all the work and time of trying to marry all the right components, system quirks and snags, etc., so I say come on, AI !

p3

Also, not sure but as it was lower end components, I'm pretty sure the 2060 Super cannot be overclocked.

If you PM me your address I'll get my daughter to send you my G2 that she has no intention of using. I have a vague memory of running it on my 1080ti for a while and it was playable.

July 28, 2023

On 7/26/2023 at 6:36 PM, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Hey,

every Nvidia card can be OCed, and it‘s actually pretty easy.

You can‘t even directly damage it through OCing, you just shorten it’s life due to the higher wear and tear caused by higher temps and higher voltages. Ever since the 2000 gen Nvidia implemented limits of what you could do with your card.

Just follow any YT tutorial on OC with MSI afterburner and you should be golden.

Thanks for that info, it's been years since I set aside my set up, I seem to vaguely recall something I read that indicated somehow my 2060s card was not able to be overclocked. As I mentioned in my original post, I purchased it at Best Buy, and it is a third party vendor who supplies these to Best Buy, but the components were not the ones you typically find at a retail vendor.

But when I get going here I will investigate and see, I very much hope you're right; as for limited life, so be it, if I can get a couple years using it in my training phase, at least I got something for my money. It's there to use, so be damned, OC away if I can! :0

thanks again,

p3

Edited July 28, 2023 by puyo3

July 28, 2023

23 hours ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

If you PM me your address I'll get my daughter to send you my G2 that she has no intention of using. I have a vague memory of running it on my 1080ti for a while and it was playable.

Hello,

Thank you much for your generosity, however, I just tried PM you and it says Hetzer-J52 cannot receive messages - am I doing something wrong? You can email me at ronglennsb@gmail.com if you wish, or I need to resolve the pm problem. I tried twice, same message.

On 7/26/2023 at 6:47 PM, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Opencomposite is pretty easy to install, and it‘ll give you a substantial boost. But you’ll need another 3rd party program to get customisation options like in Steam VR, which will not cost nearly as much resources as SteamVR.

I recommend to use the OpenXR Toolkit, it works perfectly fine with the XRnecksafer version of VRnecksafer.

Just follow these instructions to get the Toolkit and OpenComposite running:

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/opencomposite

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/

As for the Reverb G2, I personally have no experience with it.

I‘m still on my Rift S due to the Microsoft VR ecosystem, on which the G2 runs, kinda being abandoned.

My personal recommendation would be stick with the Rift S until you‘re able to upgrade your PC, but then again, you can always just get a better HMD and lower the resolution, it‘ll probably still look better than the Rift S.

Thanks for the info, what did you mean 'kinda being abandoned' on the Microsoft VR ecosystem? I actually already sold my Rift S, so need to get another set. Do you think the Reverb G2 would not work with my lower end system, or as well due to RIft S being more supported by MS?

July 28, 2023

12 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

Hello,

Thank you much for your generosity, however, I just tried PM you and it says Hetzer-J52 cannot receive messages - am I doing something wrong? You can email me at ronglennsb@gmail.com if you wish, or I need to resolve the pm problem. I tried twice, same message.

Thanks for the info, what did you mean 'kinda being abandoned' on the Microsoft VR ecosystem? I actually already sold my Rift S, so need to get another set. Do you think the Reverb G2 would not work with my lower end system, or as well due to RIft S being more supported by MS?

PMd you. I think you left a letter off my moniker.

I have no idea what Chilli means, all VR software runs in Windows just like any other software, you'll have no issues with the G2.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Hetzer-JG52

July 28, 2023

It appears I am not with the program re replies to posts or using the quote to reply; a few times now the forum system combined my messages, though I was sending a message to two different members.

Sorry for the confusion, if I send anyone this type of dual reply, just ignore the other subject, I'll get up to speed!

Hetzer-JG52 - I just replied to your pm, so let me know if you did not see a reply.

Thanks again,

p3

July 28, 2023

44 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

Thanks for the info, what did you mean 'kinda being abandoned' on the Microsoft VR ecosystem? I actually already sold my Rift S, so need to get another set. Do you think the Reverb G2 would not work with my lower end system, or as well due to RIft S being more supported by MS?

Oh it would definitely work, but Microsoft has stopped actively developing the Windows Mixed Reality Software. Meaning you‘ll get what is here now, which is a working piece of kit, but any further software improvements will have to come from 3rd party developers like the author of the OpenXR Toolkit.

So if you get your hands on a cheap G2, my advice is getting it, as it is better hardware than the Rift S, and you can’t really benefit from any future upgrades to your system with a Rift S.

July 28, 2023

On 7/24/2023 at 11:36 PM, Drum said:

The Reverb G2 would work really well for you at low settings, and when you decide to upgrade your CPU & GPU you'll have a better idea (like the rest of us) how the newer VR HMDs are working out. With the latest in software updates from Windows, Nvidia, OpenXR and the games themselves, the RTX 4090 and i9-13900k is prefect for running VR right now (for example). I own the 13900k, 4090 & Varjo Arrow HMD and it's almost as good as a 4k monitor. I'm waiting for the Somnium VR1 due out in Sept. https://discord.gg/AUWwmhdz

About the time you decide to upgrade to your new gaming rig, the picture as to what the right system & VR HMD to get will be more clear. You'll want to use OpenXR going forward with any VR you're using IMO, here's the discord link to the guy who's been really helping to move VR forward for us all, @mbucchia is his name and you'll find lots of info there to help you decide as well: https://discord.gg/kMA5eQdH

Edit, also the Open XR toolkit will work wonders in improving your VR performance with your present system right now.

Thank you for that, I am happy to settle in for a year or so period of lower settings based VR flying as a time of training getting up to speed with the whole VR world, adjusting settings, using features, basic flight training, etc., so I'm ok with that. And as you said in a year or so time things will have gelled and settled with VR, obvious advancements in tech/powerful cards, etc., so I'll be ready to step when the time is right. And I will look into Open XR and @mbucchia. Good flying, thanks.

13 minutes ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Oh it would definitely work, but Microsoft has stopped actively developing the Windows Mixed Reality Software. Meaning you‘ll get what is here now, which is a working piece of kit, but any further software improvements will have to come from 3rd party developers like the author of the OpenXR Toolkit.

So if you get your hands on a cheap G2, my advice is getting it, as it is better hardware than the Rift S, and you can’t really benefit from any future upgrades to your system with a Rift S.

Great, thanks, OpenXR Toolkit is well spoken of, so I'm encouraged about that, and not needing to use Steam, Meta, whatever, suits me.

I am hoping to have a G2 set sometime in the future, and am glad that this forum is available to us all, as the collective conversation I have had these past days has helped me come to the decision to at give VR another go, and as some have stated, no reason I cannot fly with a monitor /head tracking system occasionally as well should I wish to.

July 28, 2023

1 hour ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

PMd you. I think you left a letter off my moniker.

I have no idea what Chilli means, all VR software runs in Windows just like any other software, you'll have no issues with the G2.

I replied to your pm, so let me know if you did not get my reply. When I first tried to pm you, I did click on your H-JG52 moniker, so apparently that's not the way to initiate a pm

34 minutes ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Oh it would definitely work, but Microsoft has stopped actively developing the Windows Mixed Reality Software. Meaning you‘ll get what is here now, which is a working piece of kit, but any further software improvements will have to come from 3rd party developers like the author of the OpenXR Toolkit.

So if you get your hands on a cheap G2, my advice is getting it, as it is better hardware than the Rift S, and you can’t really benefit from any future upgrades to your system with a Rift S.

Thanks for all your inputs ChilliBalls, greatly appreciated. Cheers,

p3

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