Bodenplatte career: How to beat p51?

[Leonerdo]

Hey guys,

I hope you can give me some advice.

I started a Bodenplatte career in the II JG26, flying the FW-190 A8 and in the first 2 missions we were facing huge amounts of p51-B, who just annihilated us.
They seem to climb with no issues, turn better, accelerate better and every time I have 2 or 3 of them at my tail after a minute. 

Difficulty, activity, ect. are on medium, which worked fine in the Stalingrad Bf-109 career. But here its almost impossible to survive. 

The A8 feels like a brick and looses speed as soon as I touch the stick. I tried the D9 in some quick battles and it feels so much better. My plan was to survive long enough until we get the Dora, but it seems impossible at the moment. 
I can´t outrun or outclimb or outturn them, so it ends up flying defensive until I get some hits and go down. 

 

What´s the trick?
Ignoring my squad, climbing to 5000m and stick to classic B&Z without falling under 2000m, while they get killed on the deck?
 

 

[sunrrrise]

4 hours ago, Leonerdo said:

and every time I have 2 or 3 of them at my tail after a minute. 

Those are rookie numbers, should be "10 or 20" ?

[spreckair]

5 hours ago, Leonerdo said:

What´s the trick?
Ignoring my squad, climbing to 5000m and stick to classic B&Z without falling under 2000m, while they get killed on the deck?

Probably yes, yes, and yes.

[Mtnbiker1998]

welcome to late war Luftwaffe!

[Noisemaker]

[Willy__]

Bodenplatte career: How to beat p51?

 

Answer: With an a8, you dont.

[R33GZ]

11 hours ago, Leonerdo said:

The A8 feels like a brick

Yep. In A2A fights I have not once succeeded. I think it would be harder in singleplayer too as the AI know where you are at all times, so you can't loose them.

 

Try taking your whole flight an extra 1-2k above your waypoint target altitude, that will at least put you in a good position to start with. Rolling scissors can be a good tactic with the 190, but if you have multiple enemy on you.... you're toast.

[Yogiflight]

Interesting, I never had any issues with the P-51s on hard difficulty and in the first phase of BON, high density. Neither had my squadmates. The real hard opponents always were the Spitfires. They slaughtered my flight and the only thing I could do was run away. Be sure, you use the special emergency power, without it you don't have a chance to win.

 

11 hours ago, Leonerdo said:

without falling under 2000m,

under 3000m. The big problem with the career missions, when flying the FW 190s is the missions take place in 2000m and you have to climb 1000m before you reach your maximum manifold pressure in the second loader gear. so I either stay low, if the fight starts at the deck, or I try to climb above 3000m to get speed and power for turning.

I always wondered why the P-51 is a much easier opponent than the Spitfire.

[Leonerdo]

Thanks for all the answers. The useful and the semi useful ( yes, we are the baddies ? )

 

I will try the high altitude variant and "cover" the team from above...

If nothing goes, I can at least dive away and run home until I get promoted to flight leader for continuous cowardne.... ehm... saving the plane. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Leonerdo

[1Sascha]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:30 AM, Leonerdo said:

Ignoring my squad, climbing to 5000m

That's what I always do (default altitudes given by the campaign flightplans are usually ridiculously low), but: The game seems to adjust for that sort of "trick" and will simply spawn in the opposing fighters at even higher altitudes. Not sure if this is still the case these days, but it sure was a few months ago. I re-started several missions and flew at different altitudes (sometimes sticking with the default ones, sometimes climbing up at least 2 or 3k higher than those) but it seemed that if the game had decided I would run into enemy fighters with an altitude advantage over me, then that's precisely what would happen, no matter what my actual altitude was.

 

I could be wrong of course and/or this could be just an improbable string of "bad luck", but I've tested this several times and the result was always the same. Meaning I would run into enemy planes with significant alt-advantage over me, no matter what I did re my own altitude.

 

 

 

S.

Edited July 23, 2023 by 1Sascha

[1Sascha]

I just played around with altitudes a bit more in the Normandy campaign (pretty stiff resistance ... Spit IX's everywhere ?).

 

What seems to work (sometimes) is for me to stick with the flight-plan and wait until I'm about 30kms away from the last waypoint before the "battle"-point. Then I switch out of auto-level and start to climb to at least 4k ... more like 5k in most cases. My flight's altitude was 2k for all the missions I've tried (coming out of Abbeville, on free hunt missions over the invasion beaches).

 

Now, enemy aircraft would still come in with altitude advantage. Some would've been present from mission start (I checked on external views and found a flight of four Spits coming over from England at at least 3k, probably higher). But others would spawn in mid-mission, either on airfields close to the battle-area or some, I think, would spawn in close to me at altitude already, which makes getting jumped by a second group right after you're done or are in the middle of fighting another, lower group a real danger.

 

Bottom line for me was this: Climbing up at least 2 or 3k above my group when I got close to the combat area and then sort of hanging back and using my AI-buddies as bait to get high enemy fighters to drop their altitude to engage my flight seemed to be the best option for survival. In all the Normandy career missions I've tried, sticking to your ridiculously low flightplan altitude would've been disastrous. And really... sending me to a "Free Hunt" patrol area with plenty of time to climb to ridiculous altitudes (in a 109 G-6 AS, no less) but on a flightplan that calls for 2kms of altitude? Whoever planned that mission might as well have asked me and my buddies to commit suicide on the runway. ?

 

Perhaps the career mission generator is still in "Eastern Front Mode", since most of the fighting and flying would've taken place at much lower alts over there (historically)?

 

S.

[R33GZ]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

In all the Normandy career missions I've tried, sticking to your ridiculously low flightplan altitude would've been disastrous. And really... sending me to a "Free Hunt" patrol area with plenty of time to climb to ridiculous altitudes (in a 109 G-6 AS, no less) but on a flightplan that calls for 2kms of altitude? Whoever planned that mission might as well have asked me and my buddies to commit suicide on the runway. 

 

Perhaps the career mission generator is still in "Eastern Front Mode", since most of the fighting and flying would've taken place at much lower alts over there (historically)?

 

S.

It becomes a bit more apparent when you fly multiplayer. If you have to find ground targets then you will ultimately end up at a about 2km so you can actually see them. If you are patrolling to intercept strike aircraft, you also have to be able to see them, so probably won't be much higher than 3-4km... and most of the time, you probably won't see the one that gets you. It happens brutaly, and quickly.

Edited July 27, 2023 by R33GZ

[percydanvers]

Not that multiplayer stats are everything, but I think this is a good illustration of the fact that A-8 is somewhat at a disadvantage in a fighter vs fighter role. The problem with the 190 is that if it's not faster than its opponent, it really doesn't have much of any advantage except roll rate, and by 1944 most aircraft are faster than it. To get the most out of this plane you really have to fly it as part of coordinated team, and be really good at energy fighting. The first requirement isn't possible in sp. Your wingmen will turnfight and just die. The second part you can do, but you're still going to have a tough battle if you have to fight P-51s, who just straight up outclass you in just about every way. 

 

 

My advice? Transfer to a 109 squadron

Edited July 31, 2023 by percydanvers

[sevenless]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:26 AM, 1Sascha said:

Perhaps the career mission generator is still in "Eastern Front Mode", since most of the fighting and flying would've taken place at much lower alts over there (historically)?

 

I´m pretty sure they don´t have different templates for WF, EF and WW1 and are using one single career template for all settings. This should be fixed for obvious reasons.