BoX can be modded but the core of the game is untouched. CloD and modding after V6?

[Mysticpuma]

To be quite brief.

The developers of BoX have opened up parts of the game to modding, this is then left to creative members of the sim community to enjoy adapting what they can and add new opportunities for players. I think it's fair to say that TFS are aware of modding as this is where the roots began.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/114-mods/

 

 

I think it is clear to see that development of CloD is a very slow process but steadily the team are getting to the point where VR and the mythical graphics update may be released this year (speculation). What we then have is v6, maybe a new theatre, most likely new maps, but based on the progress of v5, is it likely v6 will see the light of day before the end of 2025, who knows?

 

Given that, once v6 releases and a few bug fixes are made, I personally don't see how it will continue to a v7 with such a small team of enthusiasts.

 

So all I am asking is that if there was no possibility of a v7 coming out, would the team at least consider opening the game up (limited lik BoX so no FM/DM etc) could be changed? This may at least extend the longevity of the sim with players being able to add retextures, vfx and other none core critical changes.

 

No expectations of this in v5 or v6.....but ultimately if v7 doesn't look like it will happen, an option to allow the sim community to be creative in CloD, could at least give additional playability well into the future.

 

Just putting it out there, cheers, Mysticpuma

[Buzzsaw]

Hello

 

We have no plans to change the ability of the players to modify the CLIFFS engine.

 

The primary reason:

 

-  Allowing players to modify the game would require significant overhaul of the code to allow this... we simply don't have the manpower to do this... the process would require the creation of separate online and offline versions of the game... increasing the size of the download, and complicating the number of versions the players would need to manage.  We think it is more important to put our Coder's energy into adding things like VR, improving the graphics, adding new maps, aircraft and objects.

 

TF is already an open organization which encourages people to join and contribute to the development of the Sim... if you have the skills and knowledge we would welcome your participation.  Some areas of development, (for example Maps) do not require high level coding or graphics knowledge once the initial bump mapped structure is created.  All that is required is a good working knowledge of the game's Full Mission Builder.

 

The game already allows the creation of skins, customization of maps, etc.

 

Anyone who is interested in participating in Team Fusion, who has a minimum of 4 hours a week they can commit, and who have skills in computer coding or graphics, or who understands the FMB well should feel free to PM me to discuss joining TF.

[Canvas25]

Thanks for your very reasonable answer. We really appreciate all you guys do, and we are waiting with anticipation to see the results! 

[Dagwoodyt]

I have no idea why Fulqrum would want to fund a mod-friendly version of Blitz. The longer it takes to complete implementation of the Visual Update the less relevant the sim becomes. This reality is manifest in the Steam DB stats and forums activity. What happened to the "development diary". No update since April 4?

[BENKOE]

[Buzzsaw]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:25 AM, BENKOE said:

There were lots of security 'gaps' in the original game which allowed modders to alter the game.

 

But those gaps also allowed hackers to destroy fair online play.

 

One of the first things TF did when we started to un-officially mod, was to close the security gaps and to prevent hacking.

 

We do not plan to open the game up again or allow the community un-restricted access to the Source Code.

 

Anyone who has good ideas and wants to join Team Fusion has the opportunity to work on the game and improve it... within the structure of TF and subject the security screening of Fulqrum... we are open to that.

[BENKOE]

Sounds like Team Fusion (TF) was granted access to the game source code. As far as I remember even TF company itself does not have access to the final source code (iL2CoD_v1.11.20362), TF received access to an older version. So, all assumptions related to the source code are based on the consideration of an unpublished product or a product that may have been revised again by 1C:Maddox.

Having this in mind, it would be misleading to give the impression that TF is the only with access to "the code".
It would be misleading to give the impression that TF rewrote "the entire engine code” to fix a suspected atmosphere bug.
It would be misleading to give the impression that a bugged "Artificial Intelligence" (AI) is responsible for computer guided misconduct.

Edited May 8, 2024 by BENKOE

[Buzzsaw]

8 hours ago, BENKOE said:

Sounds like Team Fusion (TF) was granted access to the game source code. As far as I remember even TF company itself does not have access to the final source code (iL2CoD_v1.11.20362), TF received access to an older version. So, all assumptions related to the source code are based on the consideration of an unpublished product or a product that may have been revised again by 1C:Maddox.

Having this in mind, it would be misleading to give the impression that TF is the only with access to "the code".
It would be misleading to give the impression that TF rewrote "the entire engine code” to fix a suspected atmosphere bug.
It would be misleading to give the impression that a bugged "Artificial Intelligence" (AI) is responsible for computer guided misconduct.

Your comments are incorrect.

 

TF is the only entity which has access to the source code at this point in time.  We have sole license to develop it.  We received the most recent version of the source code which was available.  Any more recent versions were lost due to the 1C decision to cancel the project and with that the closure of the development office and erasure of most of the development files.  The project was cancelled in 2012, and while we had asked for a copy from that point, 1C did not agree, and we did not receive the SC till 2017.  This is why TF did not receive any guidebooks to development, no map making tools, no importing tools, etc.  We were fortunate that one copy of the SC was found on a PC outside the office.

 

All of our explanations re. our developments are factual.

 

[BENKOE]

This is what I said: TF does not have access to the final source code (iL2CoD_v1.11.20362).

 

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

... Any more recent versions were lost due to the 1C decision to cancel the project and with that the closure of the development office and erasure of most of the development files. ...

 

[Buzzsaw]

41 minutes ago, BENKOE said:

This is what I said: TF does not have access to the final source code (iL2CoD_v1.11.20362).

 

 

Yes, we did not have access to the final... but the differences were not enough to stop us moving forward.

 

We have taken the SC we received and developed far past where it was when we got it.

 

SC's are not static, they develop and what we have created is far superior to the original.

 

What it cost us was time... to create the elements which were missing, as for example the importing tools, the map tools, etc.

[BENKOE]

This is your clearest statement yet, thanks BUZZSAW. But, please allow one more comment. It is misleading to give the impression that without knowing the final source code of the published game, what TFS have created is far superior to the original.

[Buzzsaw]

9 hours ago, BENKOE said:

This is your clearest statement yet, thanks BUZZSAW. But, please allow one more comment. It is misleading to give the impression that without knowing the final source code of the published game, what TFS have created is far superior to the original.

Hello Benkoe

 

1st Question:

 

Have you played the final released Un-modded 2012 version of CLIFFS OF DOVER?  (not CLIFFS OF DOVER - BLITZ)

 

If you have not, you can... its on Steam.  That version is based on and uses the last version of the source code developed by Ilya Shevchenko's development team, prior to the team being disbanded, and which you refer to, and which is missing.

 

If you play that 2012 version of the original game, you will find it is riddled with bugs and is missing all the improvements TF has made and is clearly inferior to the current CLIFFS/BLITZ version.  You will be unable to climb to altitude in the aircraft, many of the carbureted aircraft are nearly unusable due to incorrect settings, many elements, such as distant clouds, are missing, the terrain and aircraft textures are inferior, various cockpit elements are missing or incorrect, etc. etc.

 

TF knows there were no major changes between that version and the previous one we received because we have compared game play.  The time difference was approximately 3-4 months.

 

2nd Question:

 

Are you a programmer?  Do you understand the language used in Source Code?

 

Our programmers, who have years of experience, and who do understand the programming languages used in the CLIFFS game engine, have examined and studied the SC over the past 11 years.

 

They understand this enormous piece of software very well.  They know what in the code needs to be improved and what is well written.  (only time is preventing us from making all the changes we would like to do... re-writing the various code elements for a game engine is large as CLIFFS is a huge task... the original full time, large development team worked from 2004 till 2011 with a budget in the multiple millions of dollars to get to the point where it was cancelled)

 

Our programmers and myself are confident Team Fusion is developing the game's code in the best possible way.  All of our steps forward have been carefully considered.

 

I appreciate you may have some concerns or ideas about what we are doing, but please give us some credit, and understand the information we provide publicly is not deceptive or misleading.

[BENKOE]

A discussion style like ad hominem, aimed at questioning the credibility of the conversation partner, isn't my thing. It's usually more effective to focus on arguments and facts rather than resorting to personal attacks. So, I prefer to respond respectfully and on a constructive level. The phrases 'misleading' therefore directly refer to the content of posts and criticize accuracy or clarity without directly attacking a person. They're observations pointing out potential misinterpretations that are not uncommon.

 

Since the publication of the first Team Fusion mod (v3.00), all maps start at Standard ISA conditions. In this context, the statement 'temperature being set correctly' needs explanation/clarification. Otherwise, it is misleading. Why? We are flying in a map environment that, at first glance, comes very close to what aviators know as the International Standard Atmosphere (ISA). One doesn't necessarily have to be a programmer to know that the ISA pressure altitude equals ISA density altitude. The TF standard temperature is not being set correctly to meet ISA the requirements at altitde. Any mission builder can replicate this with a small script.
One doesn't necessarily have to be a programmer to know that there never will be snow around a +15°C cold Channel map environment. Anyway, the +15°C do not fit to a Channel Winter Wonderland , the statement 'temperature being set correctly' needs explanation/clarification.

 

Another example:
A look into the Hurricane (Rotol) fuel configuration menu (TF v5.040) shows that sometimes a bit of math is enough to see that

'85{kg} + 85{kg} = 171{kg}' is not true, and that

'115{kg} + 115{kg} + 93 {kg} = 324 {kg} = 100%' is misleading.

 

The list could go on ...

 

Spoiler

*** Credits ***
FG28_Kodiak,  TheEnlightenedFlorist {TEF}, 92 Sqn. Philstyle, FearlessFrog, No601_Swallow, 41Sqn_Banks, HeinKill, theOden, Nephris, Artist,  Salmo, Chuck_Owl, Sokol1 aka 1lokos, Varrattu, Yo-Yo, TheWreckingCrew and many others ...

 

Edited May 14, 2024 by BENKOE

[Dawson]

On 5/14/2024 at 11:20 AM, BENKOE said:

'85{kg} + 85{kg} = 171{kg}' is not true

Consider this 85.4 + 85.4.

[BOO]

Im not sure if I've  lost just the interest or the will to live entirely