inquiry re offline vs online aircraft flight characteristics

[puyo3]

Hello,

 

I am just trying to finally get going with Il-2 Great Battles, having been overwhelmed with a business startup, followed immediately by a 4 year covid/elderly parent care situation, so I am way behind with game, so bear with me here, I am admittedly massively unfamiliar with the simm.

 

I finally loaded the game and assigned basic key mapping and tried out the AI in offline mode. I am flew in Normal mode, and not Expert just to give it a try. I took up the 190 A8, Veteran to Ace mode. My first impression: happy to see that the AI was not so prone to exhibit computer guided shooting during frontal passes as IL-2 Sturmovik, but all the AI flown adversaries flew the high speed, drawn out circular passes, and would not engage in close in mix ups, which I very much prefer. I understand the high speed combat is the preferred doctrine held by most, but just the fun of close in dog fights is my fun spot. 

 

As the 190 has the automatic controls for most engine functions, I thought I might be able to get the measure of how it performs, but I felt underpowered in all combats, my left wing would drop at ~320 kph at times in mild maneuvering, and the few times I was able to engage close in I had no confidence in controlling rollunder or steep banks, etc. During on combat an I-16 caught me as I was RTB at full speed (?!)  I am sure the problem is with the one typing, again, but I would appreciate some feedback as to offline vs online flight characteristics in the game. And will flying in Expert mode when I get up to speed improve my aircraft performance? I've seen online YT videos of the 190 in action, and that's not what I flew here,

 

Not a criticism of anyone, rather an inquiry, I would appreciate any inputs to bring me up to speed and perhaps recommend settings, etc.

 

As a side, I would hope that the developers might consider an option in the flight set up in the offline mode for the AI to be more aggressive and attempt close in rolling combat mix ups. My Windows XP Toshiba laptop, 1 Gb total shared memory to this day was the best AI combats I have ever had, very aggressive and totally engaging. 

 

Thanks for your help

 

p3

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Well, that's a lot of questions. 

 

16 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

just the fun of close in dog fights is my fun spot.

Try fighting early war, or even better, WW1. That's gonna give some pretty tight furballs

 

17 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

I felt underpowered in all combats, my left wing would drop at ~320 kph at times in mild maneuvering

The 190 is know for spinning easily. At 320kph, you should be able to turn just fine however. Are you sure your joystick curves are alright? If they are, you're probably still pulling too hard/sudden.

 

21 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

During on combat an I-16 caught me as I was RTB at full speed

That shouldn't happen in any case, unless the I-16 had the energy advantage. What did the technochat (the text on the right) say? Were you flying combat power?

 

22 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

I would appreciate some feedback as to offline vs online flight characteristics in the game.

I don't fly online, but I do know that the same flight models are used online as offline. So the flight characteristics are exactly the same

 

23 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

And will flying in Expert mode when I get up to speed improve my aircraft performance?

Usually it will since you've got more control over how to tune your plane. Although on the German planes it generally doesn't matter that much since much of their engine stuff is set automatically anyhow.

 

25 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

I would hope that the developers might consider an option in the flight set up in the offline mode for the AI to be more aggressive and attempt close in rolling combat mix ups.

Regarding AI too, there aren't any differences between online and offline. If you find the AI too easy though, you should turn its skill up. At ace level, it can usually put up a good fight and come up with some nice maneuvers.

 

27 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

My Windows XP Toshiba laptop, 1 Gb total shared memory to this day was the best AI combats I have ever had, very aggressive and totally engaging.

Ehm, I sure hope this refers to the laptop you once used rather than your current PC Anyhow, fly around a bit more and I'm sure you'll get the hang of the 190 pretty soon

[puyo3]

Thank you for the detailed reply, I hadn't set up my joystick curves, so there that. It was emergency power, full throttle in the the I-16 fight, so too early to say, but I know from Il-2 Sturmovik 1946 that often time I found AI over amped in my experience with offline combat, could be my computers' interpretation. 

 

The ~320 ish kph wing stall was at mild turning, I have alot of experience in close in with the 190, this was not during violent maneuvering, rather mostly gentle inputs.

Toshiba was years ago, I have a 4 year old moderately capable gaming desktop that is loaded for the game pretty well.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by puyo3

[AEthelraedUnraed]

7 minutes ago, puyo3 said:

I know from Il-2 Sturmovik 1946 that often time I found AI over amped in my experience with offline combat, could be my computers' interpretation.

Yeah 1946 had a different flight model for the AI. BoX uses one single flight model for everything though, so if the AI does something, you should be able to replicate it when you're flying that plane yourself

 

Can't say what the issue with either the speed or the stalls is though (as long as your joystick curves are configured correctly), I only rarely fly the 190. Perhaps some people who fly it more often may be able to give some advice?

 

And now it's off to bed for me or else my boss will not be amused tomorrow morning ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, puyo3 said:

 

 

The ~320 ish kph wing stall was at mild turning, I have alot of experience in close in with the 190, this was not during violent maneuvering, rather mostly gentle inputs.

Toshiba was years ago, I have a 4 year old moderately capable gaming desktop that is loaded for the game pretty well.

 

 

In the CAMERA control menu, keep - Head Movement/Head Shake - checked to on, or you won't see it. -->  If the plane starts shuddering a bit before the stall, ease up on the elevator input a bit until it smooths out.  IL-2 has a nasty tendency of modeling elevators to "overload" rather quickly and stall the tail right out.  (Try the P-47 for ultimate weak elevator syndrome.)  Joystick curves settings do help but, only marginally.

If you're also using rudder in the turn, you're going to have to let off the elevator proportional to your rudder inputs.  At full rudder, the joystick is probably going to be at the center with opposite aileron to counter the roll and minimal elevator inputs to keep the nose from dropping toward the ground.  You'll have to be very careful with how much elevator you give when adding rudder or the whole kite goes tits-up faster that you can say "Uber 110 won the war. or U.S. .50 cal will never be right."

 

As far as the i-16 thing goes... I can only imagine that the postioning of the i-16 was such (relative altitude, orientation, closeness) that when you hit full power and he hit full power, the i-16 initially beat you in acceleration before you could get past the point where you would be the one accelerating faster and pull away.  Some planes accelerate faster than others but can't match top speed of the opponent plane or only accelerate better in the beginning of the race and then drop off.  The 190 is not known for it's acceleration.  It's more known for what it can do when it's up-to-speed.  Try to never get too slow, no matter what. 

At full-boost, I'm pretty sure the i-16s thrust-to-weight ratio is quite impressive when it comes to initial acceleration but, the 190 should be able to keep accelerating once the i-16 has "gassed" itself out.  Stay evasive until then.  Don't go all the way to the deck until you're sure he's going all the way to the deck too.  Once both of you have no more to gain from diving and are both bleeding excess dive speed, he should bleed his excess speed more quickly than you.  In level flight on the deck, your "plain top speed" (no dive speed added) is much better than his.  If he can still dive after you while you're level on the deck and bleeding your excess dive speed, he might still get you.  

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mobile_BBQ

[BlitzPig_EL]

Try the A3 or A6 if dogfighting is your thing.  The A8 is an overweight slug in that kind of fight.  Better yet try a 109F4 or G2.

[RossMarBow]

190 don't fly like normal planes, if you do sustained turns in them you will loose they also have bottom tier climb rate
190 likes being rolled and short sharp stick pulls it also likes staying fast aka rolling scissors

If you want to fly more normally and be less restricted try the 109s out, they can hold sustained turns and climb much better

 

If you get sick of the AI theirs always multiplayer 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Don't forget the 190 has a 'horizontal stabiliser'.. and if you're looking to maximise your speed - keep the turn and bank bubble centered.

 

As AEthel said - maybe give Flying Circus a go..

 

S!

[Yogiflight]

19 hours ago, puyo3 said:

It was emergency power, full throttle in the the I-16 fight,

with the additional WEP-boost engaged? 'Sondernotleistung' (special emergency power) makes a hell of a difference compared to full throttle without WEP.

[puyo3]

Thanks to all for your inputs and suggestions, I got a nasty cold for the 4th, so have been confined to quarters so to speak, and wasn't able to reply to each respondent, but thanks.

Rather than quote replies to each, I will give a summary:

 

Mobile-BBQ - I'll try adjusting the camera/head shake as you suggested; agreed to your elevator/rudder assessment, I'm sure it's mostly my inexperience here. In 1946 I became quite capable in coordinating controls and surprised myself at times, so I'll keep after it. 

I know when mixing it up with nimble opponents to choose my attack carefully, and get exit strategically when the situation is turning against me. I had done this, and had a good lead on my RTB, and used boost as well for a time, then began to take hits some time into the chase, so it wasn't the better initial acceleration in this case. 

 

BlitzPig_El -  Agreed re A3 or A6, but as I mostly fight late war Spits, Tempests, Mustangs, etc. I use the A8. If my opponent accepts a maneuvering battle, ie slows and curves into engage me via rolling, high banked turns, etc, I like my odds as I've fought this fight many times, and as I said, my bit of craziness, but it is great fun. In 46 I would engage the nimble fighters for the challenge, I had to 'think fast, rabbit' and high tail it out of there often, but did well mostly.

 

Ross MarBow - Agreed again, and that poor climb rate will leave me below my opponent before I know it. In the Toshiba computer 46' combats I mentioned, the AI came in like hornets, very aggressive, whereas in my Win 7 gaming laptop and seeming now with GB, I began to see this AI climb away combat preference. So I will have to go with what they give us. and there is other aircraft and Flying circus as someone said.

 

"190 likes being rolled and short sharp stick pulls it also likes staying fast aka rolling scissors..." Indeed, but if the AI will not engage close in, one cannot take advantage of this, I must fight his fight. I've won all my combats to date, crashed into the ground like an idiot a few times, but I'll get up to speed!

 

Zooropa-Fly - You mean I should trim in some elevator climb, yes, I hadn't set up all keys, so will do and that might help. I know I need to give it some time, my main question was does the aircraft fly different in online combats compared to offline? Seems the answer is no.  And I will go with FC as you said.

 

This is why I requested that the developers might add an option one could choose - 'Random, Normal, Knife fight' for the AI opponent. 

 

YogiFlight - yes, with emergency boost, and actually disengaged it as I had a comfortable lead [exited well with a good jump, and him going the opposite direction]

 

Thanks to all for your inputs, I'm sure I'll eventually get up to speed. I need to get familiar with allied fighters, so this will help me to concentrate on that rather than stay in my comfort zone.

 

p3