What do I need to run latest gen VR butter-smooth? Freycinet asking for advice.

[Freycinet]

Hi all,

 

I have been salivating over all the amazing stuff I read about VR in this great sub-forum. Now the time has come for me to take the plunge. not with VR glasses but with the PC needed to run flightsims in VR. 

 

Bought my last PC back in 2009(!). With upgrades along the way it held out pretty well through Il-2, Cliffs of Dover and the early days of Stalingrad. No good for today's sims, Great Battles to MSFS, and of course not for VR.

 

So, I am loking to buy a new one! - Happily, the price is not a big problem for me now-a-days, as it used to be when I was a student...

 

I am looking at these machines from my favourite shop here in Belgium:

https://www.alternate.be/PC/Gaming-pcs

 

- Which PC and price range should I be looking at? - Also with an eye to "future-proofing" my acquisition for a few years ahead...

 

I will probably go for a custom build, so anything I should be on the look-out for which is not in the gamer PC's listed?

 

I plan to do some kick-ass movie-making as in the old days (before kids came along...)...  

 

Thanks for any advice and help!

[FTC_Evans]

If you can do it and this pc build is driven by your want to run IL2 at its best in VR (like mine), I recommend doing the I9-13000k and the RTX4090, fastest 32 gig ram and a fast SSD. I have a rig with this and it runs like butter at 91 fps with Openxr/Open Composite based on these settings raised a bit (Icemans video he uses a 4080 and HTC goggles (4090 seems a pretty fair improvement jump from a 4080) , so could raise them a bit) Make sure to use windows 11 as its much more efficient with game resource usage. I also use Extreme tuning utility to OC the cpu per manufacture and slight GPU overclock with GPUZ.

Also using an Oculus (meta) quest 2.

I'm glad I went all out for the play is great.

Also, this was my first pc upgrade in a long time also, so you deserve it!

Good luck!

 

Also, this was my first pre-built as I usually did it in the past. This is the rig:

 

• CAS: CORSAIR 4000D SERIES AIRFLOW Edition ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Chassis  (Black)
• COOLANT: None
• CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700
• CS_FAN: Default case fans
• ENGRAVING: None
• FAN: CyberPowerPC DEEPCOOL Castle 240EX ARGB 240mm AIO Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate (2 x Standard 120MM Fans)
• FREEBIE_VC: None
• HDD: 2TB Kingston FURY Renegade (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 7300/7000 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 1000/1000k (Single Drive)
• HDD2: None
• HEADSET: None
• KEYBOARD: CyberPowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
• MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory] (Performance Memory by Major Brands)
• MONITOR: None
• MOTHERBOARD: MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA [+41]
• NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
• OS: Windows 11 Pro [+31]
• OVERCLOCK: Pro OC (Performance Overclock 10% or more)
• POWERSUPPLY: 1,000 Watts - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 GT 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply
• PRO_WIRING: Professional Wiring + [Black/Red] Phanteks Premium Extension Cables sleeved set [24Pin MB + 8Pin CPU + 6+2 Pin VGA] [+39]
• PROMOSALE1: CyberPowerPC FPS Gaming Mouse Pad [+0] (Large 14x12 Inches)
• RECOVERYUSB: None
• SERVICE: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
• SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
• SPEAKERS: None
• USBHD: None
• VIDEO: GeForce RTX™ 4090 24GB GDDR6X Video Card (Ada Lovelace) [VR Ready]  (Single Card)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Evans_

[Panzerlang]

Impressive in DCS for the price. A 4070-based rig, around £1300:
 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Hetzer-JG52

[[CPT]Crunch]

If you own a legal windows key for any past version of it, you can use that key to install and activate win 11 at no cost and unlock it.  So that's one more obstacle removed, put that cost savings toward the graphics card.

[Freycinet]

17 hours ago, Evans_ said:

If you can do it and this pc build is driven by your want to run IL2 at its best in VR (like mine), I recommend doing the I9-13000k and the RTX4090, fastest 32 gig ram and a fast SSD. I have a rig with this and it runs like butter at 91 fps with Openxr/Open Composite based on these settings raised a bit (Icemans video he uses a 4080 and HTC goggles (4090 seems a pretty fair improvement jump from a 4080) , so could raise them a bit) Make sure to use windows 11 as its much more efficient with game resource usage. I also use Extreme tuning utility to OC the cpu per manufacture and slight GPU overclock with GPUZ.

Also using an Oculus (meta) quest 2.

I'm glad I went all out for the play is great.

Also, this was my first pc upgrade in a long time also, so you deserve it!

Good luck!

 

Also, this was my first pre-built as I usually did it in the past. This is the rig:

 

• CAS: CORSAIR 4000D SERIES AIRFLOW Edition ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Chassis  (Black)
• COOLANT: None
• CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700
• CS_FAN: Default case fans
• ENGRAVING: None
• FAN: CyberPowerPC DEEPCOOL Castle 240EX ARGB 240mm AIO Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate (2 x Standard 120MM Fans)
• FREEBIE_VC: None
• HDD: 2TB Kingston FURY Renegade (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 7300/7000 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 1000/1000k (Single Drive)
• HDD2: None
• HEADSET: None
• KEYBOARD: CyberPowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
• MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory] (Performance Memory by Major Brands)
• MONITOR: None
• MOTHERBOARD: MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA [+41]
• NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
• OS: Windows 11 Pro [+31]
• OVERCLOCK: Pro OC (Performance Overclock 10% or more)
• POWERSUPPLY: 1,000 Watts - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 GT 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply
• PRO_WIRING: Professional Wiring + [Black/Red] Phanteks Premium Extension Cables sleeved set [24Pin MB + 8Pin CPU + 6+2 Pin VGA] [+39]
• PROMOSALE1: CyberPowerPC FPS Gaming Mouse Pad [+0] (Large 14x12 Inches)
• RECOVERYUSB: None
• SERVICE: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
• SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
• SPEAKERS: None
• USBHD: None
• VIDEO: GeForce RTX™ 4090 24GB GDDR6X Video Card (Ada Lovelace) [VR Ready]  (Single Card)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks evans, good advice!

 

11 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

If you own a legal windows key for any past version of it, you can use that key to install and activate win 11 at no cost and unlock it.  So that's one more obstacle removed, put that cost savings toward the graphics card.

 

What?? I didn't know that, thanks!

 

 

[RossMarBow]

20 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Hi all,

 

I have been salivating over all the amazing stuff I read about VR in this great sub-forum. Now the time has come for me to take the plunge. not with VR glasses but with the PC needed to run flightsims in VR. 

 

Bought my last PC back in 2009(!). With upgrades along the way it held out pretty well through Il-2, Cliffs of Dover and the early days of Stalingrad. No good for today's sims, Great Battles to MSFS, and of course not for VR.

 

So, I am loking to buy a new one! - Happily, the price is not a big problem for me now-a-days, as it used to be when I was a student...

 

I am looking at these machines from my favourite shop here in Belgium:

https://www.alternate.be/PC/Gaming-pcs

 

- Which PC and price range should I be looking at? - Also with an eye to "future-proofing" my acquisition for a few years ahead...

 

I will probably go for a custom build, so anything I should be on the look-out for which is not in the gamer PC's listed?

 

I plan to do some kick-ass movie-making as in the old days (before kids came along...)...  

 

Thanks for any advice and help!

What is your budget and how long do you want to stay current?

PC's are modular so you should take a long view 

buying something with far superior performance per dollar now 
and upgrading sooner 
will get you better performance in the long run compared to buying the latest and greatest today and only for today
cause next year your computers going to only run as fast as something for 1/2 or a 1/3 of the cost
 

Start off with the headset - as that will set a minimum for what you need to run it comfortably 
IL-2 in VR is CPU limited first 
I would pick up a 7800x3d and a second hand 3080 ti
buying top of the line graphics cards is unnecessary - next year the 5080 will be faster than the 4090 the year after that the 5070 ti will be faster than the 4090 - graphics cards go out of date much faster than CPUs
- and you can always turn graphics down but you can't turn CPU load down

amd motherboards also have at least 5 more years of CPU upgrades for them
and you don't need to spend $$$ on water cooling
and nothing beats x3d for smoothness - and IL-2 is not smooth neither is DCS so x3d is the best choice even if you might loose some average frames
your minimums will be way ahead - this will stop you feeling like throwing up wearing vr
you also don't need a million cores - cores don't do anything if the game doesn't use them - so I don't see the point in having e(waste) cores on a gaming machine at all - and more than 6 normal cores - another L for inteL

ram doesn't matter so much for x3d chips, but its worth getting something half decent and manually tuning it a bit
manually turning ram, removing bloatware, and a few other things will get you performance you can not buy
having some awful ram setup running at default settings will make your system run like something worth 10% of the cost you paid 

a manually tuned cpu will easily beat the cpu above it on the product stack

unless your playing DCS you don't need more than 16GB - and you can always buy new ram in a few years if theirs a new game

any ssd will do the job - its a none issue - you can run IL-2 off a sata ssd with skin textures on a old HDD and suffer zero performance loss

this will get you the best bang for buck and 99% of the performance you would get from spending 1000s more
in x amount of years slot in a new cpu new gfx card and maybe upgrade ram

 

I have analysed IL-2 frame time plots on multiple systems with multiple configurations and are in the global top 100 for a few different cpu/gpu combinations, if your wondering how I can be so sure about this.
Also look at the performance spreadsheet on the forums. 

 

you can install any windows for free and use it for awhile before you get a licence 
Microsoft has a one click program to make a usb for installing 
ez 

 

I don't like anything that shop is selling as pre built 
ASUS make terrible motherboards 
and I believe your more than capable of building something yourself

4070 ti is a bad card because of its terrible memory bandwidth 
a second hand 3080 ti has far bigger bus width and far better fps/$
and you will get far superior performance 


 

Edited July 1, 2023 by RossMarBow

[Freycinet]

Thanks for your input RossMarBow, I think I understood most of it.

[chiliwili69]

On 7/1/2023 at 4:58 PM, RossMarBow said:

Start off with the headset - as that will set a minimum for what you need to run it comfortably

 that´s quite right.

You will need to decide what headset are you going to use since not all of them require the same CPU or GPU power.

 

For example, headseat that allow to run at other frequencies (like Index at 80Hz, or RiftS at 80Hz, or Quest Pro at 72 Hz) allow to have more margin on the CPU and GPU frametimes.

 

Then, the resolution of the headset determine the graphic card that you will need. For example, a 3080 is more than enough for an Index or Quest Pro.

 

In this table https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/

you will find tests done with different CPUs and GPUs with different headsets.

In the tab "SS per device" you will find a table of all VR devices with their resolutions.

[Freycinet]

I will probably go for a 4090 since I also want a bit of future-proofing.

 

Thanks for the info Chiliwili, very thorough!

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Freycinet said:

I will probably go for a 4090 since I also want a bit of future-proofing.

 

Thanks for the info Chiliwili, very thorough!

 

For VR especially very good choice!

[RossMarBow]

6 hours ago, Freycinet said:

I will probably go for a 4090 since I also want a bit of future-proofing.

 

Thanks for the info Chiliwili, very thorough!

 

Overspending =/= future proofing
Only reason to buy a 4090 is if your headset needs it now

the other issue with nvidias new cards is the memory bandwidth 
I wouldn't buy less than a 4080 if I wanted a new card cause everything cheaper is a rip off 
but the 3080ti has a huge memory bandwidth much bigger than current cards
memory bandwidth is a huge factor in future proofing 

(bus = memory bandwidth)

Performance ranked and Current prices
4090 = 3000NZD
4080 = 2000NZD
2nd hand 3080 ti ebay with warrenty = 850NZD
4070 ti = 1500

4060 ti = 650

Next year 
5090 = 3000NZD
5080 = 2000NZD
4090 
2nd hand 4080 ebay with warrenty = 850NZD
5070 ti = 1500

5060 ti = 650
4070 ti

 

Next year 
6090 = 3000NZD
6080 = 2000NZD
5090 
2nd hand 5080 ebay with warrenty = 850NZD
4090 
6070 ti = 1500

6060 ti = 650
5070 ti


(if you do a lot of extra maths you can make a 4090 a lot closer in value for money though in this case only 4.4% less fps/$)

As you can see it makes far more sense to spend less now 
And plan on upgrading sooner 
If you want to future proof
Same goes for CPUs
buying a 7800x3d today instead of a 7950x3d 
and upgrading the 7800 sooner
will get you more performance for less
over the long term

 

 

 

(for below FPS in witcher 3 (dx11) if the fps number is crossed out its less than double what a 5700 xt gets my tech rule is upgrade if its twice as fast and half the price

Edited July 3, 2023 by RossMarBow

[RossMarBow]

[Freycinet]

I can see a bit of disagreement among you...  :-)

 

dburne (and others), what do you think of the memory bandwidth issue that Rossmarbow raises?

[chiliwili69]

I think the choice of a PC and the choice of a VR headset is like a chicken and egg thing. What should be first?

 

You need a suitable PC for each headset and every headset has their owns GPU needs.

 

The answer is easy. Let me explain:

 

If you are new to VR I think the first thing you will need to do is to test now if VR is for you. To do that you don´t need the best VR heaset or the best GPU. But you need a PC with a good CPU.

 

In my humble oppinon, if I were you I would follow this:

 

1) Pick a cheap but good headset with no requirement for basestations (for example Quest2 or Pico4), for easy install.

2) Pick a new PC with a 7800X3D CPU (this is what I pick up recently. reasons: performance, cost, future CPUs with AM5, low heat generation, etc) with a X670 Mobo.

2b) Get 2x16Gb DDR5 with high freq and low latency. I picked 6000Mhz and CL32.

2c) Get a PSU with no less than 1000W (for future GPU needs), extra cost is low.

2d) Get a cheap new or 2nd hand GPU, a 3080, or a 3080Ti , but no more

3) Enjoy VR for 1-2 months and decide if VR is for you

4) Decide if you want to invest in a better VR headet and decide what VR headset (keep Q2/Pico4, Crystal?, Aero?, Quest3?, deckard?)

5) Pick a GPU accordingly

 

The GPU is always the easiest thing to upgrade for every VR generation.

Dburne is happy with the 4090 because he uses an Aero.

But a 3080 is more than enough for many current headsets (Index, Quest2, Pico4, Quest Pro).

 

I could easily had bought a PC with a 13900KS, 64Gb RAM and a 4090 (I have no budget limitation) but it will give zero gain over my current PC+VR system.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Freycinet said:

I can see a bit of disagreement among you...  ?

 

dburne (and others), what do you think of the memory bandwidth issue that Rossmarbow raises?

 

I personally am not aware of this. 

[Panzerlang]

4 hours ago, Freycinet said:

I can see a bit of disagreement among you...  ?

 

dburne (and others), what do you think of the memory bandwidth issue that Rossmarbow raises?

All I can say to it is my 4090 runs IL2 (and MSFS) a fton better than my 3080ti. And both systems are comparable in properly matched components.

[dburne]

19 minutes ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

All I can say to it is my 4090 runs IL2 (and MSFS) a fton better than my 3080ti. And both systems are comparable in properly matched components.

 

Runs them a lot better than my 3090 ever did. 3090 to 4090 was the largest generational change in performance I have seen in a GPU upgrade in years. Same 9900k system, just the GPU upgrade.

Edited July 3, 2023 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

And both systems are comparable in properly matched components

This is interesting. Could you please specify what CPU/RAM of each PC? and what VR headsets?

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

This is interesting. Could you please specify what CPU/RAM of each PC? and what VR headsets?

It's a 13900k CPU and GSkill DDR5 RAM, 7200mhz (running at half of that because the XMP doesn't work on these new mobos). The headset is the Pico4.

The 3080ti is an 8600k and DDR4, 3600mhz (that's working fine with XMP).

[Freycinet]

Thanks for all your great comments! I am really thankful for your thorough advice.

 

A fellow forum member in here is being so nice as to gift me his old VR glasses, a Rift 2 set, so I can try it out before splurging on next-gen glasses. When I do get those next-gen glasses I will see if I can try them on personally, since it is clear from this forum that personal preferences are really important, and also very different.

 

I ended up ordering this custom-built rig at Alternate.be today:

 

Motherboard:

MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI Z790  299,00€

 

CPU:

Intel Core i9−13900KF 3000 1700 BOX 599,00€

 

RAM (32GB):

D532GB 6000−36 Flare X5 K2 GSK 109,90€

 

Case:

be quiet! DARK BASE 900 bk ATX 269,00€

Graphics card:

MSI 24GB D6X RTX 4090 Ventus 3X OC 1.749,00€

 

Liquid cooling:

Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 134,90€

 

Power supply:

Corsair HX1200 1200W ATX24 269,00€

 

Hard-drive:

WD 18TB WD181KFGX Red Pro 7200 SA3 499,00€

 

Solid-state drives:

SSD 2048GB 7.0/7.0 KC3000 P4 M.2 KIN 139,90€

SSD 4096GB 7.0/7.0 KC3000 P4 M.2 KIN 379,00€

 

OS:

Win 11

 

With various extras and a 4-year warranty it cost me about 5 grand... (in euros)

   

[Sokol1]

On 6/30/2023 at 5:44 PM, Evans_ said:

• CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700
• FAN: CyberPowerPC DEEPCOOL Castle 240EX ARGB 240mm AIO Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate (2 x Standard 120MM Fans)

 

i9-13900K with 240mm AIO? 

 

This "Air Fryer" need 360mm or 420mm very good AIO and good amount of faith.

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

It's a 13900k CPU and GSkill DDR5 RAM, 7200mhz (running at half of that because the XMP doesn't work on these new mobos). The headset is the Pico4.

The 3080ti is an 8600k and DDR4, 3600mhz (that's working fine with XMP).

 

Those CPUs are really different in Single-thread performance, and this is key in VR.

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/CPU_mega_page.html

 

The 13900K has a mark of 4679, but the 8600K has 2600. So you are not doing a fair comparison. Your 8600K is the bottleneck then, not he GPU.

 

If you put the 3080Ti card with the 13900K you will have also great performance with the Pico4.  

 

 

4 hours ago, Freycinet said:

A fellow forum member in here is being so nice as to gift me his old VR glasses, a Rift 2 set

 

Nice!

What is a Rift 2?  Quest 2? Rift S?

[dburne]

In my case everything was identical except GPU.  Huge difference. Trust me for VR, if you can swing it you want a 4090. It will not be wasted. Especially if you happen to get into any other - ahem-  flight sims. If it is too much just get best you can afford at the time.

[Freycinet]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Nice!

What is a Rift 2?  Quest 2? Rift S?

 

Not quite sure. That is what he called it.

 

4 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

i9-13900K with 240mm AIO? 

 

This "Air Fryer" need 360mm or 420mm very good AIO and good amount of faith.

 

Yes, that is why i went with the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420mm (i.e. three 12cm fans).

 

I am expecting it will do double duty as an air conditioner for my living room.....  ?

 

But now. Which MONITOR to buy??

 

I guess it should be at least 144Mhz, 4K. wanting something like a 32-inch screen with good contrast, minimum 3000:1. Maybe one of the Samsung Odyssey monitors?

 

True, most of my simming will hopefully be with VR glasses, but I still want to watch movies and photos on the monitor, do video editing and Photoshop stuff, and also some gaming.

 

Ultra-wide screen is probably going a bit too far for my needs, but I would like a "somewhat wide" screen. don't know which one that would be, though. Any recommendations?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Freycinet

[dburne]

I am quite happy with my two 1080p monitors, however I do all my gaming in VR headset. I do watch movies on monitor though and it is good enough for me.

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, dburne said:

In my case everything was identical except GPU.  Huge difference

 

Yes, your case is totally different. An Aero really needs a 4090, and that´s why you were seeing a huge difference.

The Aero at the highest settings and SteamVR SS at 100% is rendering 29.5 million pixels!  More than the 23 million of the Apple Pro Vision.

So yes, for an Aero it is compulsory to have a 4090.

 

But other VR devices might not require for IL-2 a 4090, like the Pico4, Quest Pro, Quest 2 or most likely also the upcoming Quest3. I don´t know other flight sims requirements and that´s why perhaps the 4090 could be required to have extra details.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Any recommendations?

 

4K yes,

144Hz really needed?, but in any case, you new PC will be able to run at 4K and highest settings in IL-2 well above 144fps, so you might not need G-Sync chip.

I have a 60Hz 4K 28" monitor but I play in VR always. With sizes around 30" you need to enlarge Windows zoom to 125% or 150% to see better the text.

So, being in 4K and if you have space, I wold not go for a size lower than 40", or even 50". Specially if you use for movies.

Edited July 4, 2023 by chiliwili69

[RossMarBow]

9 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Not quite sure. That is what he called it.

 

 

Yes, that is why i went with the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420mm (i.e. three 12cm fans).

 

I am expecting it will do double duty as an air conditioner for my living room.....  ?

 

But now. Which MONITOR to buy??

 

I guess it should be at least 144Mhz, 4K. wanting something like a 32-inch screen with good contrast, minimum 3000:1. Maybe one of the Samsung Odyssey monitors?

 

True, most of my simming will hopefully be with VR glasses, but I still want to watch movies and photos on the monitor, do video editing and Photoshop stuff, and also some gaming.

 

Ultra-wide screen is probably going a bit too far for my needs, but I would like a "somewhat wide" screen. don't know which one that would be, though. Any recommendations?

Cooling isn't that big of a deal both amd and intel cpus use about the same amount of power for the same game

Its only when you start running MC workloads does intel really benefit from big cooling, so it will help you a lot when your doing video editing etc.

 

I would recommend planning on running at least two monitors.
Two monitors is way better for everything than a single. 
For gaming and video editing
One should be a decent 1080p monitor 144hz 27-32"

I run a 1080p 27" 144hz monitor and then have a vertical 1080p 22" monitor next to it
I went with 1080p over higher resolutions because lots of stuff doesn't scale well to higher resolutions 
All on monitor mounts which are attached to my standing/adjustable desk
Strongly recommend you look into monitor mounts and a standing/adjustable desk since you seem to have the money for it
Such a big improvement in comfort and the monitor mounts make adjusting the screens easy and free up a ton of desk space
Its amazing how much more comfortable your setup will be when you can make micro adjustments to the desk height and monitor placement
Plus now is a great time to buy stuff like this everyone is running big sales

 

monitor mounts will probably help a lot in vr and with flight controllers as you can move them out of the way really easily 

The other monitor something ridiculous if that is what you want 4k in a similar size
I think those flashy samsung monitors are the best
I wouldn't get a ultrawide as the display ratio ends up being a pain 
 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by RossMarBow

[Freycinet]

I am actually quite a bit constrained by space here at my desk. There is no wall behind it, though, but rather the view of the rest of my living room, so a mount is not feasible.

 

Thanks, all, for the good advice!

 

Yeah, perhaps 144Mhz is not necessary if I do most of my gaming in VR... Good point.

 

I will have to read up on G-synch too, I forgot what that was all about.

[dburne]

6 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Yes, your case is totally different. An Aero really needs a 4090, and that´s why you were seeing a huge difference.

The Aero at the highest settings and SteamVR SS at 100% is rendering 29.5 million pixels!  More than the 23 million of the Apple Pro Vision.

So yes, for an Aero it is compulsory to have a 4090.

 

But other VR devices might not require for IL-2 a 4090, like the Pico4, Quest Pro, Quest 2 or most likely also the upcoming Quest3. I don´t know other flight sims requirements and that´s why perhaps the 4090 could be required to have extra details.

 

 

 

Don't lose sight of the fact I am comparing the Aero on same hardware with 3090 and 4090 GPU. My comments are on improvement in going to a 4090 for VR. 

[kissTheSky]

53 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Don't lose sight of the fact I am comparing the Aero on same hardware with 3090 and 4090 GPU. My comments are on improvement in going to a 4090 for VR. 

I can report the same. Everything being the same the largest jump in performance was 3090 to 4090 on my system as well.

[RossMarBow]

7 hours ago, Freycinet said:

I am actually quite a bit constrained by space here at my desk. There is no wall behind it, though, but rather the view of the rest of my living room, so a mount is not feasible.

 

Thanks, all, for the good advice!

 

Yeah, perhaps 144Mhz is not necessary if I do most of my gaming in VR... Good point.

 

I will have to read up on G-synch too, I forgot what that was all about.

The mount attaches to your desk, not the wall.
Takes up way less space than the stand it comes with.

 

*sigh*

buying a 4090 and not running it on at least a 144hz monitor sounds like a huge mistake and possibly a warcrime

Get a 1080p 144 monitor
And

Get a 4k 144hz monitor
If your thinking about going over 144hz don't, get oled instead way bigger improvement 

 

is English your first language? I feel like theirs a big gap in comprehension between what I say and what you reply with

here's a video

 

19 minutes ago, kissTheSky said:

I can report the same. Everything being the same the largest jump in performance was 3090 to 4090 on my system as well.

 

this thread is tech support gore
but I didn't expect anything different 

Edited July 4, 2023 by RossMarBow

[kissTheSky]

You’re not a “people person”, are you? ?

[RossMarBow]

13 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

You’re not a “people person”, are you? ?

?

Just trying to be a bit more in depth than 
Hey guys I brought a faster graphics card and the game run faster

 

What I was going to say last night

If everyone who brought a 13900k and a 4090
Sold it and swapped it for a 13400 or a 7800x3d and a 2nd hand 3080 ti or a 4080
And gave the difference in $$$ to the IL-2 devs for the only purpose of increasing the code performance 
You would get more fps out of it than you lost

At the moment if you play il-2 or DCS on modern gear its a bit like taking a Ferrari putting go cart wheels on it and racing it around a go cart track that has been abandoned for decades

Edited July 5, 2023 by RossMarBow

[NiiranenVR]

Its the VR - the first one I got 

And I will say that these glasses are only for a ' try on '  Vs  the quality of VR glasses today 

 

So - Karma , have a try - buy a new - and then another one in the group can have a 'try on '

 

One way it can can be good glasses in the beginning before upgrading the system when you don't need high classes GPU ....?

 

But .... After ..... Then it will cost lot of money for upgrading pc/GPU/ glasses ..?‍♂️

[BladeMeister]

14 hours ago, RossMarBow said:

?

 

At the moment if you play il-2 or DCS on modern gear its a bit like taking a Ferrari putting go cart wheels on it and racing it around a go cart track that has been abandoned for decades

This comment is so true. It is not that I doubt people get anywhere from 6 to 12% higher performance with a 4090 over a 3090, but there is no baseline test for VR, 4K or 2K that just shows clear cut stats as to what actual results, + or - , are coming from these upgrades. The fact is the code for all of the old and even the most recently updated flight sims we play, can't use the multicore powerhouse CPUs that a lot of us now own. DCS is just now dabbling in multicore, but the fact is there was no overall great performance gain in the tests I have done using MC in DCS. People should realistically understand that just buying a 4090 for 1700$ is not going to magically make all combat flight sims the ultimate experience. It is getting a bit better with a more fluid experience, but until the actual coders start using the resources of multicore systems in a truly optimized code, we are going to keep grinding along watching our CPUs and GPUs become bottlenecks to actually experiencing a truly spectacular experience.

 

S!Blade<><

[Freycinet]

13 hours ago, NiiranenVR said:

Its the VR - the first one I got 

And I will say that these glasses are only for a ' try on '  Vs  the quality of VR glasses today 

 

So - Karma , have a try - buy a new - and then another one in the group can have a 'try on '

 

One way it can can be good glasses in the beginning before upgrading the system when you don't need high classes GPU ....?

 

But .... After ..... Then it will cost lot of money for upgrading pc/GPU/ glasses ..?‍♂️

 

Hey Niiranenk,

 

Yeah, I think that's the one I tried at your house. That was pretty cool and my first time with proper VR glasses in a good flight sim.

 

I will absolutely "pay it forward". I believe in karma just like you...   :-)

 

On 7/4/2023 at 3:31 PM, RossMarBow said:

is English your first language? I feel like theirs a big gap in comprehension between what I say and what you reply with

  

Hehe, that's a good one... "Theirs"  :-)

 

No, I just go with what the majority in this thread says and what I heard from everybody else, namely that the newest graphics cards do make a big positive difference.

 

I did not know that the mount you referred to attaches to the table and not the wall, sorry about that. I may try one of those mounts if the original stand of the monitor is no good. for the moment I don't quite know which monitor to go for. 144Mhz, 4K and good contrast ratio (3000:1 or better) are not easy to find in any single monitor. Recommendations very welcome. 

[RossMarBow]

5 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Hey Niiranenk,

 

Yeah, I think that's the one I tried at your house. That was pretty cool and my first time with proper VR glasses in a good flight sim.

 

I will absolutely "pay it forward". I believe in karma just like you...   ?

 

  

Hehe, that's a good one... "Theirs"  ?

 

No, I just go with what the majority in this thread says and what I heard from everybody else, namely that the newest graphics cards do make a big positive difference.

 

I did not know that the mount you referred to attaches to the table and not the wall, sorry about that. I may try one of those mounts if the original stand of the monitor is no good. for the moment I don't quite know which monitor to go for. 144Mhz, 4K and good contrast ratio (3000:1 or better) are not easy to find in any single monitor. Recommendations very welcome. 

All good.

That is why I recommend you get two different monitors 
not only are two monitors way better for gaming and video editing
but you can also have your cake and steak 
One monitor will meet some requirements
The other monitor will meet the rest 

[NiiranenVR]

12 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Yeah, I think that's the one I tried at your house

no no - that was my Reverb G2 

 

I mean this model here is the oculus rift 1 - and the reverb 2 is big step up 

 

I startet with the rift 1 and I think it was great - then I got the reverb 1 and it was a big step up in classes - then the reverb 2 and it was a little bitty bit better than the reverb 1

Edited July 6, 2023 by NiiranenVR

[BladeMeister]

On 7/5/2023 at 3:05 PM, BladeMeister said:

 It is not that I doubt people get anywhere from 6 to 12% higher performance with a 4090 over a 3090, but there is no baseline test for VR, 4K or 2K that just shows clear cut stats as to what actual results, + or - , are coming from these upgrades. The fact is the code for all of the old and even the most recently updated flight sims we play, can't use the multicore powerhouse CPUs that a lot of us now own. DCS is just now dabbling in multicore, but the fact is there was no overall great performance gain in the tests I have done using MC in DCS. People should realistically understand that just buying a 4090 for 1700$ is not going to magically make all combat flight sims the ultimate experience. It is getting a bit better with a more fluid experience, but until the actual coders start using the resources of multicore systems in a truly optimized code, we are going to keep grinding along watching our CPUs and GPUs become bottlenecks to actually experiencing a truly spectacular experience.

 

S!Blade<><

Well I will need to retract my statement of 6 to 12% performance gain with a GPU step up from a RTX3090FTW to a RTX4090. A friend has just purchased an RTX4090 and after running tests on very similar Rigs(non VR) the RTX4090 is looking like it is 43% more powerful using the Unigine Heaven 4.0 benchmark. We will be doing more testing with 3DMark, but as a baseline test the Heaven benchmark has always worked well for me when putting a GPU through its' paces. So those claiming that the RTX4090 is a beast and possibly the biggest step up from one GPU generation to the next are probably not overstating there experience. ?

I will go back to sleep now.

S!Blade<><