FFB and Stall?

[SeattleRex]

Greetings, I'm a long-time DCS user, mostly modern planes, but about 6 months ago I started getting into warbirds.  I just purchased IL-2 yesterday (The Normandy product only so far), and from what I've seen so far it's great.  It took me awhile to get VR working (apparently you have to use SteamVR), butI think I've got it all worked out.

 

I use the Warthog HOTAS setup for moderns, but I could not use it to fly warbirds with it (pulled into a stall every single time), so a few months ago I got Sidewinder FFB2, which is what finally made it possible.

 

I noticed so far that the DCS and IL-2 FFB is a bit different.  IL-2 is better in some areas (I can feel the gun shooting in the stick), but one thing I DON'T feel is any shaking on stall.  I fly the Bf.109 almost exclusively, and I suppose I have the one that's included with Normandy.

 

Does anyone know if this usually happens, or is it just not a place where the FFB is utilized?

[justin_z3r0]

I've been using an MSFFB2 for a couple years now and I mostly play IL Great Battles. I do notice some minor shake close to stall but I mainly fly allied (Spitfire, Mustang, Jug). So It could be different. I don't fly Luftwaffe very often.

 

I have tried DCS recently, and noticed that the FFB in the spitfire is quite wonky. I could not get trim to work properly. The TF51 on the other hand worked great. Both sims FFB is different feeling though.

 

I find MS Flight SIM to behave differently too (You need to buy a 3rd party add on for it though) - it works very well and worth the few bucks it cost.

 

IL2 Cliffs of Dover / Tobruk also has a very different feeling FFB. Control forces are very weak on the ground and at low speed, but gets progressively stronger with speed. you can feel the guns and pre-stall shake in the stick on that one. Its a very nice looking game especially for its age (Team fusion is doing a great job keeping it updated).

It will have an update with new clouds soon-ish I think (judging by the forum).

 

I don't think I could go back to a non- force feedback stick now. Its amazing how well these MSFFB2 sticks work after 20 years (came out in 2002 I think).

[JG27*PapaFly]

32 minutes ago, justin_z3r0 said:

I don't think I could go back to a non- force feedback stick now. Its amazing how well these MSFFB2 sticks work after 20 years (came out in 2002 I think).

 

I thought the same. I've used exclusively MS Sidewinder FFB sticks between 1998 and 2020.

 

Being a RL pilot, I was super reluctant to giving up FFB.

 

Finally, I moved to a Virpil TC50 stick with alpha grip and 10cm extension and never looked back. The accuracy and feel of my current setup are in a completely different league compared to the old FFB sticks. My take-home message: FFB is not everything,  not by a long shot. 

[justin_z3r0]

36 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

 

I thought the same. I've used exclusively MS Sidewinder FFB sticks between 1998 and 2020.

 

Being a RL pilot, I was super reluctant to giving up FFB.

 

Finally, I moved to a Virpil TC50 stick with alpha grip and 10cm extension and never looked back. The accuracy and feel of my current setup are in a completely different league compared to the old FFB sticks. My take-home message: FFB is not everything,  not by a long shot. 

Those looks like very well engineered sticks. Metal construction. 
nothing like the plastic non ffb sticks I had before. I was constantly repairing my old Logitech. 
Might have to try one out in the future. 

[Talisman]

5 hours ago, SeattleRex said:

Greetings, I'm a long-time DCS user, mostly modern planes, but about 6 months ago I started getting into warbirds.  I just purchased IL-2 yesterday (The Normandy product only so far), and from what I've seen so far it's great.  It took me awhile to get VR working (apparently you have to use SteamVR), butI think I've got it all worked out.

 

I use the Warthog HOTAS setup for moderns, but I could not use it to fly warbirds with it (pulled into a stall every single time), so a few months ago I got Sidewinder FFB2, which is what finally made it possible.

 

I noticed so far that the DCS and IL-2 FFB is a bit different.  IL-2 is better in some areas (I can feel the gun shooting in the stick), but one thing I DON'T feel is any shaking on stall.  I fly the Bf.109 almost exclusively, and I suppose I have the one that's included with Normandy.

 

Does anyone know if this usually happens, or is it just not a place where the FFB is utilized?

 

Try changing default Startup.cfg settings to the following (these are the ones I use):

 

[KEY = force_feedback]
    amplitude = 1.00000
    enabled = 1
    force = 1.00000
    update_freq = 10.000000
[END]
 

Remember to save and after change to go to file properties and set to read only to make sure that changes remain saved.

The route to the folder is IL-2, data, Startup.cfg

Good luck.  I get lots of shake on the stall.

 

P.S.  My in-game control devices settings for FF are shake = 100% and feedback power 100%

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by 56RAF_Talisman

[354thFG_Rails]

18 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

 

Try changing default Startup.cfg settings to the following (these are the ones I use):

 

[KEY = force_feedback]
    amplitude = 1.00000
    enabled = 1
    force = 1.00000
    update_freq = 10.000000
[END]
 

Remember to save and after change to go to file properties and set to read only to make sure that changes remain saved.

The route to the folder is IL-2, data, Startup.cfg

Good luck.  I get lots of shake on the stall.

 

P.S.  My in-game control devices settings for FF are shake = 100% and feedback power 100%

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

What do these settings change? I recently got a VPforce Rhine FFB (great quality btw) and I’ve noticed all the aircraft are different when it comes to stall warnings. The P-47 being good for riding the stall buffet and the 109 or Spit being very subtle and more unforgiving. My assumption was that you couldn’t change much in il2 to customize the feedback you get. In DCS you could though. There is a program to where you can amplify or turn down certain feedback you get in different aircraft. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by 86th_Rails

[DD_Crash]

You can also use the SimShaker  software to get your seat shaking see here https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/128-simshaker/

[SeattleRex]

I did a little experiment, and it seems to vary by plane.

 

For instance, I could feel the stall shake in the Spitfire, but not in the 109.

 

And in the Spit, it only shakes when the stall is (relatively) high speed, which probably makes sense. IN DCS, you tend to get buffet even when the plane has slowed to zero relative momentum (at the apex of a zoom climb, for instance), while IL-2 only shakes when there is sufficient velocity to cause separation turbulence.  I think it's a little more accurate in that area, but again, I don't feel it in the Bf.109.

 

The FFB in the 109 does work in the sense that it reduces resistance when flow separation occurs (or whatever it is that actually takes place since I know the Bf.109 did not have laminar wings).

On 6/14/2023 at 4:03 AM, DD_Crash said:

You can also use the SimShaker  software to get your seat shaking see here https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/128-simshaker/

 

Oh cool, I'm going to look into this.

[Mtnbiker1998]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:14 AM, JG27_PapaFly said:

 

I thought the same. I've used exclusively MS Sidewinder FFB sticks between 1998 and 2020.

 

Being a RL pilot, I was super reluctant to giving up FFB.

 

Finally, I moved to a Virpil TC50 stick with alpha grip and 10cm extension and never looked back. The accuracy and feel of my current setup are in a completely different league compared to the old FFB sticks. My take-home message: FFB is not everything,  not by a long shot. 

100% agree with this. My VKB gunfighter blows my ffb2 out of the water in just about every way imaginable. I also have a jetseat to make up for the lack of ffb so I really don't feel like I'm missing much, amd tbh the stick ffb in most games I've found to be kinda lacking.

 

I think if most of these diehard ffb users actually took the time to adjust to a new stick, they'd be a lot happier.