What happened to all the players?

[357th_KW]

47 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

Sure I and we can continue to do like this until the end.

I just constat that on servers dedicated at ground attack, 90% of planes and probably more are fighters and that's make leave so many players. It's not a good thing and it's a real shame to lose so many people like this IMO.

This sim has a great potential which is wasted by how players themseves handle it, and they can't see it.

Have a good day

 

Maybe try making a server yourself, targeted at those bomber pilots?  Instead of screaming into the void of the forum, hoping that players will act differently.  If you want less fighters, you can do exactly that by setting which aircraft, and how many of each are available at the spawn points.  If that's all it takes to bring hundreds of players back to the game, it should be pretty easy to get that ball rolling and find others who will help you do it.

 

14 minutes ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

I understand why under the current status quo people target camp. My point is to change the status quo to promote something else. I know theres no reason for you not to target camp right now if all you want is kills.

 

And if all you care about is fighters doing something other then patrolling over a target, go jump on CB and ask the admins there to help with their GCI project.  They developed a radar system which is running right now in the Apollo Beta.  A human player acts as the controller and can help vector friendly aircraft so they aren't just orbiting over targets or blindly flying into a swarm of enemies.  I'm sure they'd be glad to have more volunteers to act as controllers.

[Guest deleted@83466]

57 minutes ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

I understand why under the current status quo people target camp. My point is to change the status quo to promote something else. I know theres no reason for you not to target camp right now if all you want is kills.

I think what people have been trying to say here is that some of the behaviors you’re railing against in the game are not simply a function of server design, but were a factor in real life.  You would clearly recognize Richthofen as a Camper and a Stat Whore.  Real bomber pilots probably didn’t like seeing the red Albatros and his flying circus show up either. 

 

”It is better to have one’s customer come to one’s shop than to look for them abroad.”

 

“Find the enemy and shoot him down.  Anything else is nonsense.”

 

Im not saying that certain stats, server design, map size, etc don’t play a part in turning the game into an arcade, and creating player boredom, but I think you are too narrowly focused on changing some attitudes that were present in reality, and which make the game less tidy than you wish it would be.

Edited June 5, 2023 by SeaSerpent
Additional commentary.

[SharpeXB]

49 minutes ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

I understand why under the current status quo people target camp. My point is to change the status quo to promote something else. I know theres no reason for you not to target camp right now if all you want is kills.

I don’t think there’s any way you can change human nature in gaming like this. A different point system won’t change the fact that unescorted bombers are sitting ducks. And it won’t convince players to tediously patrol the employ game when all the action will be near the objectives. 

9 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

You would clearly recognize Richthofen as a Camper and a Stat Whore.

Indeed Germany’s whole air strategy in WWI was essentially defensive camping over their own lines.  

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

2 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

And if all you care about is fighters doing something other then patrolling over a target, go jump on CB and ask the admins there to help with their GCI project.  They developed a radar system which is running right now in the Apollo Beta.  A human player acts as the controller and can help vector friendly aircraft so they aren't just orbiting over targets or blindly flying into a swarm of enemies.  I'm sure they'd be glad to have more volunteers to act as controllers.

I've never been the best at RTS games, but that looks like a great feature. The combat box team is very gifted, and those who would make good GCIs are very talented.

2 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

I think what people have been trying to say here is that some of the behaviors you’re railing against in the game are not simply a function of server design, but were a factor in real life.  You would clearly recognize Richthofen as a Camper and a Stat Whore.  Real bomber pilots probably didn’t like seeing the red Albatros and his flying circus show up either. 

 

”It is better to have one’s customer come to one’s shop than to look for them abroad.”

 

“Find the enemy and shoot him down.  Anything else is nonsense.”

 

Im not saying that certain stats, server design, map size, etc don’t play a part in turning the game into an arcade, and creating player boredom, but I think you are too narrowly focused on changing some attitudes that were present in reality, and which make the game less tidy than you wish it would be.

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think there’s any way you can change human nature in gaming like this. A different point system won’t change the fact that unescorted bombers are sitting ducks. And it won’t convince players to tediously patrol the employ game when all the action will be near the objectives. 

Indeed Germany’s whole air strategy in WWI was essentially defensive camping over their own lines.  

It's true there's definitely a limit on what stats can encourage/discourage, they are strong incentives, but definitely not the whole story. I'm not a level bomber guy though.

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

3 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

 I'm not a level bomber guy though.

You should be.  If MP numbers are the main concern, it can always use more people in level bombers…as BAIT!!!!!?

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I already knew, but this thread has made the role of level bombers in the IL2 world very clear. I'll pass.

[357th_KW]

Or better yet, use some AI to fill the roles that players aren't interested in filling.  We don't man every truck/tank/ship etc.  Level bombers and transports are perfect candidates for AI, and using a large group of AIs for those can allow for a MP mission that plays very differently from the typical server.  I'm currently working on putting together some MP missions built around escorting/intercepting a large group of high altitude bombers - the goal is to have a dogfight arena that isn't just frantic tree-top furballs.

 

 

[Guest deleted@83466]

I liked Mitchell’s Men scenario on CB.

[357th_KW]

My hope is to capture that same feel of the bomber escort/intercept part of Mitchell's Men, but in a format where players can jump on and join in at any point rather than waiting for a special event or having to be in the right place at the right time.  I've got a few different variations up and running on a test server right now.  If anyone is interested in trying it out, here's the discord link with more info: https://discord.gg/2DAynDqF

[Otto_bann]

17 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

You should be.  If MP numbers are the main concern, it can always use more people in level bombers…as BAIT!!!!!?

This won't happen with me on any current server anymore : I climb very high and through improbable navigations, and if an enemy fighter happens to approach my 88, I leave the server as soon as one of my gunners starts firing.

 

I invite all other high-altitude bomber pilots to do the same.

 

If you can't be understanding, perhaps you'll learn to be patient.

 

And if you think this isn't fair, I invite you to come and see me on Berloga, where it'll be "a bit" harder to shoot me down

[SharpeXB]

I have to notice about this topic 

1. The servers seem full to me, in fact I see more player there than I can recall although I haven’t been on in a while. 
2. I’m able to make plenty of successful ground attack mission in a FB without being shot down as long as I’m smart about it. 
3. The ground targets on the map sure seem to be getting hit well enough. There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of people willing to take this role or to succeed at it. 
I actually prefer ground attack because it’s guaranteed action instead of sightseeing. 

54 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

if an enemy fighter happens to approach my 88, I leave the server as soon as one of my gunners starts firing.

You know this is a good way to get banned right? ?

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

1 hour ago, Otto_bann said:

This won't happen with me on any current server anymore : I climb very high and through improbable navigations, and if an enemy fighter happens to approach my 88, I leave the server as soon as one of my gunners starts firing.

 

I invite all other high-altitude bomber pilots to do the same.

 

If you can't be understanding, perhaps you'll learn to be patient.

 

And if you think this isn't fair, I invite you to come and see me on Berloga, where it'll be "a bit" harder to shoot me down

Do you realize that the entire forum is probably laughing at you right now?

[Otto_bann]

I'm sure not :only guys like you

 

Rdv at Berloga

Edited June 6, 2023 by Otto_bann

[BraveSirRobin]

This is great.  Guy who regularly rage quits says other people are the problem.  I love this forum.

[69th_Panp]

3 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

This won't happen with me on any current server anymore : I climb very high and through improbable navigations, and if an enemy fighter happens to approach my 88, I leave the server as soon as one of my gunners starts firing.

 

I invite all other high-altitude bomber pilots to do the same.

 

If you can't be understanding, perhaps you'll learn to be patient.

 

And if you think this isn't fair, I invite you to come and see me on Berloga, where it'll be "a bit" harder to shoot me down

I'm ok with you leaving when your gunners start shooting  lol  I only have to put a few rounds in ya and when you leave it counts as an EASY kill for me and A Disco for you!

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, 69th_Panp said:

I'm ok with you leaving when your gunners start shooting  lol  I only have to put a few rounds in ya and when you leave it counts as an EASY kill for me and A Disco for you!

Yeah that’s right. You’ll still get “killed” anyways ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

5 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

This won't happen with me on any current server anymore : I climb very high and through improbable navigations, and if an enemy fighter happens to approach my 88, I leave the server as soon as one of my gunners starts firing.

 

I invite all other high-altitude bomber pilots to do the same.

 

If you can't be understanding, perhaps you'll learn to be patient.

 

And if you think this isn't fair, I invite you to come and see me on Berloga, where it'll be "a bit" harder to shoot me down

 

Why do this?  Ju-88 has a top dive speed that's 60kph faster than the listed 670kph. The aileron rip speed is 730kph and the tail surfaces are even higher.  As long as you keep the elevator and rudder, you can still get home and land and also possibly complete the mission.

Even the late war 'Murican and British planes have such a low closure rate to anything over 700kph that the only attack options are one-time head-on passes which take forever to set up if not already coincidentally in position, straight-down from much higher alt or creeping up on-6 attacks which leave them just hanging like a meatball for the rear gunners.   Once a Ju-88 dives, it's even worse for the Russian planes with a good chance that they'll rip first while getting wasted by the gunners.  

 

Don't believe me?  Test it yourself.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Mobile Barbecue, I think you are giving this guy too much credit.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

Mobile Barbecue, I think you are giving this guy too much credit.

 

You're probably right.  I guess I wanted to call it out with my own 2 cents and try to avoid the "1v1 me, bro." thread loop, because that's so XBoX 360 it makes my head hurt.

[Otto_bann]

8 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Why do this?  Ju-88 has a top dive speed that's 60kph faster than the listed 670kph. ..

What are you talking about? You practice level bombing by diving at 670kph? Sometimes I am also attacked in the grid of the airstart (my 88 has already been shot down in less than 2 minutes of flight), when it's not ON the airfield at takeoff. Bombers in the reality on our DFS, are not covered and gunners are inefficient now + the new ballistic of some fighters and their devastating guns : no risk for them, it's open bar for easy killers now. It ruins the gameplay.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Otto_bann

[Guest deleted@83466]

If you’re so appalled that somebody might try to shoot you down in a combat flight simulator, to the extent that you Disco at the first sight of the enemy, what’s the point of even doing multiplayer in the first place?  Why not just set up a milk-run with the QMB and avoid live opponents altogether?

 

My goodness, take some responsibility for your own gaming experience.

[Otto_bann]

Yep, I just began to learn the editor. After what I saw  here, it's obvious that to fight against human nature and those who can't or don'twant to see the elephant in the room, lead nowhere.

 

Problem, I haven't many time and I don't have any experience for build a mission. But I gonna try to do it.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Otto_bann

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

Yep, I just began to learn the editor. After what I saw  here, it's obvious that to fight against human nature and those who can't or wan't to see the elephant in the room, lead nowhere.

 

Problem, I haven't many time and I don't have any experience for build a mission. But I gonna try to do it.

The Career Mode or the Advanced Quick Mission is an endless supply of scenarios. So there’s little reason to dive into the editor IMO. Honestly I think this is the only way to get realistic missions in terms of numbers, formations, escorts etc. multiplayer really can’t do that. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by SharpeXB

[[CPT]Crunch]

And how do you implement a bomber based game with any sort of balance when one side only has a single dedicated bomber, well sort of half in a half Soviet way.  Not possible to do, the Axis is the more capable quasi strategic bomber force with the current plane set, there is no getting any sort of historical context going with the current stack, certainly no balance.  Why bother discussing it, there is no fix to this enigma besides putting a few bombers into the western allies line up.  History flipped bass ackwards.

 

The only good thing about the current game is running ground assault with fighter bombers and clashing with the like minded enemy doing the exact same.  What the combat box really excels at providing, kill that fun and action and it's over for that server too.   Just traverse and cross your own targets in and out on the way to striking an enemy target, your pretty much going to run into something for action.  Air covering targets is like watching paint dry for hours, you do know most of the clever fighter bomber pilots and groups can see you doing it miles out and just switch targets.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

2 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The only good thing about the current game is running ground assault with fighter bombers and clashing with the like minded enemy doing the exact same.  What the combat box really excels at providing, kill that fun and action and it's over for that server too.   Just traverse and cross your own targets in and out on the way to striking an enemy target, your pretty much going to run into something for action.  Air covering targets is like watching paint dry for hours, you do know most of the clever fighter bomber pilots and groups can see you doing it miles out and just switch targets.

My issue isn't just in whether I succeed or fail, its whether I succeed or fail in an interesting way. And just spotting them circling and trying somewhere else isn't interesting for me. 

 

I'm not trying to kill anyone's fun in ground attacking, but I've become very jaded with the game for many reasons beyond target camping, and it just naturally slips into my posts. I'm just gonna take a break from the game, but you enjoy yourself. There is lots on the horizon.

[CountZero]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:51 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

No , he really doesn’t.  I was happy to escort bombers into enemy territory.  They made good bait.  But seeing some dumbass that I was escorting make multiple runs on a target and attract every enemy fighter in the area when he only had 2 escorts made him an excellent candidate for being abandoned.  I was happy to escort people, but it wasn’t going to be a suicide mission, as far as I was concerned.

How many players are like you ?  That bomber guy probably knows he has chance to destroy target fast, why rtb he aint gona be alive long, so go to target and destroy as mutch as posible to finish objective faster. For bombers how stats are set up you have to wait for low number times, and do one long sortie to max your suprise on target and geting points home, you as bomber who plays by stats do not care who win or if objective will be destroyed, you care to get few destroyed objects, or bomb enemy base from 8km and get players on spawn, and rtb that, do one sortie like that in day, your gona be on top of bomber stats. Why escort that type of player, he is all about suprise he will not advertise in his own chat what he plans, if he has escort its his close frends, his objective is points not team play.

 

Bomber guys who wont to finish objectives or win maps, are expendables, go to target as fast as posible, get as many targets before your destroyed, dont waist time on rtb as you will not live long enough to care about stats, your objective is destroy faster then enmey destroy your.

Afcorse no one sane will escort this type of ground attacker, as your in danger around him, in no time whole enemy team, will be on him as hes long over same place, they get messages whats attacked, you as escort of him will be alone fighting 5 enemys over enemy area. And you get nothing for escorting him, no one se you in top 10, no one wil try to mimic that, they see robertH has 100 kills in 30 days and is in top 10 because hes alive , getting most of thouse kills 10km from his base, on players who would be kia was he there or not, they do not know about HornetR who is escorting few ground attackers but gets killed in df vs 5 enemy, is mutch better player then that top 10 guy...

 

If server removes stats system, ppl will abandon it and go play on server that is now empty but would have stats. Chnages in stats will change type of gameplay on it. Make it so only thing that mather is number of ground objects destroyed or kills, and it would be chase for top kills in shortest time, no oint to rtb.

Now its to extreme in onother way, staying alive is valued to mutch.

 

[ITAF_Cymao]

Sorry but what are we talking about?

What's the highest number we've had online since IL2GB came out? 200 players? usually there were one or maybe two full servers (84 players) and then all a series of empty servers or with a couple of players.

If anyone remembers Oleg Maddox's IL2, we had 1000/2000 players online for many years...

Perhaps the reason lay in the variety that the game offered, and that this IL2 GB doesn't give.

Here we have only dogfight servers, even the most elaborate and well done are ultimately only dogfight servers. Where the kamikazes win the maps, where we have players flying axis when the Germans have BF109 F2s and F4s and then switch to the allies when they have Spitfires or P51s.

In short, they are no different from Berloga.

And since 2013/14 nothing has changed, yes ok we had new maps and new planes but to do what? Always the usual dogfight.

If there hadn't been Finnish servers, Combat Box, Wings of Liberty and TAW we would have had more life on Mars than online.

 

S!

Edited June 8, 2023 by ITAF_Cymao

[SharpeXB]

47 minutes ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

If anyone remembers Oleg Maddox's IL2, we had 1000/2000 players online for many years...

I’m sure most of these players were doing arcade style with invisible cockpits and icons. This game tends towards sim style because the arcade players are over on War Thunder. The old IL-2 was more akin to that game than what would be considered a sim today. 

51 minutes ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

Here we have only dogfight servers, even the most elaborate and well done are ultimately only dogfight servers.

I can’t imagine old IL-2 was any different. People like action and shooting up the enemy. Nothing new about that. 

[357th_KW]

I have to really question the idea that FvP, CB, TAW, WoL etc are just Berloga.  Yes, a lot of people go on there to dogfight.  But ultimately, those servers all run missions/campaigns that are decided entirely by ground attack.  If your team doesn't destroy ground targets, it gets rolled off the map. 

 

So if people want an experience that's different from a pure dogfight server like Berloga, and they want an experience that's different from FvP, CB, WoL, TAW etc, what would that "different" look like?  Obviously there's not one answer to this question - but in order for it to become a reality, you've got to at least define what it is you're going to do differently.

[CountZero]

32 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

I have to really question the idea that FvP, CB, TAW, WoL etc are just Berloga.  Yes, a lot of people go on there to dogfight.  But ultimately, those servers all run missions/campaigns that are decided entirely by ground attack.  If your team doesn't destroy ground targets, it gets rolled off the map. 

 

So if people want an experience that's different from a pure dogfight server like Berloga, and they want an experience that's different from FvP, CB, WoL, TAW etc, what would that "different" look like?  Obviously there's not one answer to this question - but in order for it to become a reality, you've got to at least define what it is you're going to do differently.

simple, have system like its for gunners, you unlock or lock it, so you pick what player will be your escort, he acepts or declines. If game ties you two as bomber and escort, you both gain more points, bonuses and what not if not to separate during flight.

 

make it so bombers can be tied with other bombers, if they fly like that and destroy targets they get extra points compared to lone wolfs, same for fighters.

 

make it so player is able to select with how many AI wingmans he can spawn, and they lisen and falow his comands, so in low pop times you still get planty of airplanes, on top bomber guy is no longer alone target... make it so if destroyed he can transfer to onother AI airplane in his flight...

 

planty of options to promote cooperation and mass flying insted solo we have now , stats system we have now on most servers promotes individual and selfish flying. Most will behave like that, some with more succes some with less.

Edited June 8, 2023 by CountZero

[Guest deleted@83466]

I think this focus on stats stats stats and stats being the reason for declining numbers is very myopic.  If those numbers are in decline, go ahead and change the stats all you want, I doubt it will draw many people back in who have quit, and it is probably just as likely to make it worse.  This isn’t to say that things couldn’t be better tuned, but maybe somebody just got bored with endless 109 variants, the same people, the same old forum discussions, over and over and over.  Maybe they’ve become interested in the Pacific, or a Strike Eagle, or simply another game.  Maybe they want to play something a little more advanced than planes that start with E.  There are lots of reasons.  Sometimes when you look at the stats you notice certain people that have spent every single evening of their lives for the last 10 years in MP.  Don’t they ever get bored? Apparently not, but most people do something for a while and move on. I’m very skeptical of the idea that you can just tweak the stats in a way that will bring back the novelty and break the monotony.  I think only new and exciting content can do that, and also bring in fresh new players.

[SharpeXB]

I don’t think this business about bomber escorts or target camping and points scoring has anything to do with the numbers online.

Here are the actual stats, just from Steam but the that’s still relevant. Could the bump you see here from 2020-2022 be the pandemic? Likely…

 

[Ribbon]

Several resons that made me stop playing il2:

 

1.VR performance drop since cloud hotfix and skybox update (imo game degraded heavily in performance while visual upgrade is almost unoticable forcing me tune down settings with result of game looking worse than before updates //10700k, rtx3080//)

 

2.Well since BoS/BoM release gameplay is literally the same, they just throw out copy paste fighters and attackers so it got boring even after longer breaks. No bombers as well. So after thousand of hours it really become boring.

 

3.Most of the servers feel like Berloga and airquake and if u try bomber role campers are there waiting for u, becime almost impossible to plot a route and sneak on target. Online one life campaigns also went to bottom with weird planesets so u fly 109f2 vs spit9c or yak1.s69 vs 109g14....

[357th_KW]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

simple, have system like its for gunners, you unlock or lock it, so you pick what player will be your escort, he acepts or declines. If game ties you two as bomber and escort, you both gain more points, bonuses and what not if not to separate during flight.

 

make it so bombers can be tied with other bombers, if they fly like that and destroy targets they get extra points compared to lone wolfs, same for fighters.

 

make it so player is able to select with how many AI wingmans he can spawn, and they lisen and falow his comands, so in low pop times you still get planty of airplanes, on top bomber guy is no longer alone target... make it so if destroyed he can transfer to onother AI airplane in his flight...

 

planty of options to promote cooperation and mass flying insted solo we have now , stats system we have now on most servers promotes individual and selfish flying. Most will behave like that, some with more succes some with less.

 

CB has made some steps at trying to execute your first suggestions with the roleplaying mission cards they were working on for Apollo - multiple players could use the same card, or potentially link cards so that teamwork improved their scores etc.  I think it's shelved for the moment, but it's definitely doable if you are using some sort of external system to manage it.

 

AI wingmen is hard to do - there just no way to attach an AI wingman to a dynamically spawned player aircraft in the mission editor.  But you could create a system where a player uses a special spawn point that also triggers an AI mission that they could then fly along with - say you spawn in an A-20, and it spawns 5 other AI A-20s, which fly a mission, make some radio transmissions (either through subtitles, or SRS etc).  If you wanted to score that all in some way that rewards the player, again you'd need to cook up a different stats type mod.  But keep in mind, the stats mod that everyone uses now is a 3rd party creation, there's no reason why someone couldn't come up with a different stats setup entirely.  They only thing we as players/mission builders can't really change is the in-game scoreboard.

[SharpeXB]

42 minutes ago, Ribbon said:

Well since BoS/BoM release gameplay is literally the same

With all the development that happened in these may years that’s a funny thing to say. Of course the gameplay is the same, it’s still a flight simulator although they actually added tanks. So that’s different. 

45 minutes ago, Ribbon said:

So after thousand of hours it really become boring.

Perhaps anything gets boring after literally thousands of hours. Perhaps it’s possible to just play a game too much. 

48 minutes ago, Ribbon said:

Most of the servers feel like Berloga and airquake

What would give you that impression? Berloga is the most unimaginative server possible that just ran the same map over and over with two spawn points to air start. They didn’t even have enough imagination to rotate maps. The other servers are completely unlike that. 

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

3 hours ago, CountZero said:

simple, have system like its for gunners, you unlock or lock it, so you pick what player will be your escort, he acepts or declines. If game ties you two as bomber and escort, you both gain more points, bonuses and what not if not to separate during flight.

 

make it so bombers can be tied with other bombers, if they fly like that and destroy targets they get extra points compared to lone wolfs, same for fighters.

 

make it so player is able to select with how many AI wingmans he can spawn, and they lisen and falow his comands, so in low pop times you still get planty of airplanes, on top bomber guy is no longer alone target... make it so if destroyed he can transfer to onother AI airplane in his flight...

 

planty of options to promote cooperation and mass flying insted solo we have now , stats system we have now on most servers promotes individual and selfish flying. Most will behave like that, some with more succes some with less.

 

I'm confused, why don't you just join a squad? It seems everything you want would be solved by joining a squadron that focuses on teamwork. We have a mix of fighters providing escort bombers all the time in MP with great success.  I'm often on flights with 15+ people all working together on missions in MP all communicating. I think you can get your realism fixed by just reaching out and working with groups that already exist. I see plenty of teamwork all the time. Going solo in a bomber is suicide, I agree with that but there are plenty of groups that fly regularly where you don't have to do that.

[Ribbon]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

With all the development that happened in these may years that’s a funny thing to say. Of course the gameplay is the same, it’s still a flight simulator although they actually added tanks. So that’s different. 

Perhaps anything gets boring after literally thousands of hours. Perhaps it’s possible to just play a game too much. 

What would give you that impression? Berloga is the most unimaginative server possible that just ran the same map over and over with two spawn points to air start. They didn’t even have enough imagination to rotate maps. The other servers are completely unlike that. 

I should just ignore but ok.....you know there is more to ww2 than fighters and ground pounders, there are medium and heavy bombers, naval ops (torpedo bombers, carriers), different theatres of war and more....variety of gameplay....and no i dont care for tanks in flight sim.

As i remember you dont even play MP so no need to talk about servers and state they are in.

I really dont have will to answer to such silly replies so find someone else to arguee, maybe in VR section.

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

58 minutes ago, Ribbon said:

I should just ignore but ok.....you know there is more to ww2 than fighters and ground pounders, there are medium and heavy bombers, naval ops (torpedo bombers, carriers), different theatres of war and more....variety of gameplay....and no i dont care for tanks in flight sim.

As i remember you dont even play MP so no need to talk about servers and state they are in.

I really dont have will to answer to such silly replies so find someone else to arguee, maybe in VR section.

Funny you just said you quit this game due to VR performance problems but then ask for a resource hog in the form of heavy 4 engine bombers with 8 AI gunners in them. The Pacific is a whole other story and that’s coming in a different game now apparently. 

[SharpeXB]

The Japanese are target camping! Somebody should change these rules! And they shot down this bomber after it attacked the target! Why?! That’s not fair ?

 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:04 AM, Otto_bann said:

What are you talking about? You practice level bombing by diving at 670kph? Sometimes I am also attacked in the grid of the airstart (my 88 has already been shot down in less than 2 minutes of flight), when it's not ON the airfield at takeoff. Bombers in the reality on our DFS, are not covered and gunners are inefficient now + the new ballistic of some fighters and their devastating guns : no risk for them, it's open bar for easy killers now. It ruins the gameplay.

 

Obviously not but, escaping and resetting to complete the mission is a thing, unless you have no resolve.  And besides, GLIDE BOMBING was one of the specific roles the 88 was designed for.  I guess that adapting on-the-fly and switching to a secondary plan isn't acceptable to you.  I mean, hell, if you're going to die anyway, die fighting. 

Like I said, 730kph is the true rip speed (not 670). That's 10kph higher than the listed rip speed for Spit Mk. IX.  Also, if the gunners are "inefficient now" when the closure rates are so slow the target is basically "frozen in place" in you gunners' sights, your luck must be really terrible.