Proposed 'Early Normandy' Pack

[DaddyCat]

I decided to post this seperately from the 'Aircraft Suggestion' thread because this is a collection of aircraft which would work well on both the Early Normandy map and the Rhineland map, to create a early war scenario for both the Battle of France and the invasion of the Low Countries. In a sense, it would be daft for the developers to miss an opportunity to make some additional content for the maps that they already have.

 

The bonus from the developers point of view, is that the aircraft listed below, could then be re-worked into other airforces and other theatres and maps should the developers see fit to release them at a later date. 

 

So first off, it's worth starting this post by saying that the vast majority of players I've spoken to (online players at least) find the early war much more interesting. To be honest I was a little disappointed that we had the Normandy map released at all, instead of something else. Normandy and the D-Day landings have been done to death on practically every game franchise going, and it would have been nice to have something like the Spanish civil war or the Finnish Winter war instead. 

 

Regardless, since we now have the Normandy map, it is a disappointment that we have no early war aircraft that would have been used on the Western Front.

 

Although there may be some sort of clause which says GB can't conflict with ClOD, here is a list of potential candidates to fill the early western niche, whilst also potentially creating a whole range of aircraft that could be used on future, early war modules (Such as Malta, Finland or Norway.)

 

Spitfire Mk.I

No real information required here. You all know the Supermarine Spitfire!

Hurricane Mk.I

The bonus of including the Hurricane Mk.I is that it can also use the Belgian airforce skin, and could also be potentially included in both a Maltese or Finnish map at a later date.

 

Handley-Page Hampden

The Hampden was pretty slow, had poor defences, and was painfully crampt inside the cabin, however it had a fairly decent bomb-load which would put it roughly in the same category as the Dornier-17. If the developers wanted to include more anti-naval warfare, it could also be fitted with torpedos, and was also used in the Arctic in Russia waters, defending the Lend Lease ships. 

Blenheim Mk.I

We have the Blenheim Mk.IV in ClOD, however the Mk.I would be the better option for flight-simmers (in my opinion of course.) The Mk.I had a smaller cabin, and in addition to the fair-sized bombload, could also be fitted with fighter weapons too (belly mounted MGs.) Like the Hurricane above, these aircraft would also work on a future Malta or Finnish map if the Devs decided to go that route.

 

Fairey Battle

Gameplay wise, this would effectively function as unarmoured IL-2. Probably not what you want to fly, however it was capable of carrying six 250lb bombs, so would be ok on ground pounding so long as there were friendly escorts. Like her sister the Hurricane, she was also flown by the Belgians, so could have the Belgian skin added.

 

Boulton Paul Defiant

For some reason, no game has ever created a flyable Boulton-Paul Defiant, a turret-fighter design which turned out to not be the best idea. I don't know why nobody has ever created one of these in a sim though, because it seems like it would be a really fun aircraft to try, particularly with a friend on multiplayer. It is possibly a good contender for a Collector plane, I certainly would buy it!

Supermarine Walrus

Like the Hampden, if the developers wanted to go down the route of using all of that empty sea in the Normandy and Rhineland maps and develop more anti-shipping missions, the Walrus could be a good candidate for a light-antishipping/recon aircraft. It could carry a few 250lb bombs or depth charges. Gameplay wise, it could be fun to have these head out looking for Uboats or perhaps even picking up pilots who have been shot down in stormy waters, as these were used quite extensively for 'Search and Rescue' missions.  

 

Gloster Gladiator

These were in operation by the Belgians, but again could also be used in Malta and in a Scandinavian/Finnish map, since they fought with the RAF over Norway and with the Finnish airforce against Russia.
 

Amiot 143

A awfully ugly French bomber, but it was capable of carrying nearly 2000lb of bombs

 

Bréguet 693

Had French rearmament started earlier, these may have had a good effect on resisting German air superiority, but only a few were operational during the early Western hostilities. It might make a good collector aircraft.

Dewoitine D.520

ClOD already has these included. These were the frontline fighters of the French Airforce during the invasion of France.

 

Messerschmitt BF109 E3

Spoiler

An earlier Emil, should in theory be pretty easy to copy and make minor changes from the E-4 that is already in-game.
Messerschmitt BF110-C

Spoiler

Again, like the Emil above, it should be fairly easy to change from the other 110s already available.

 

Heinkel HE111 H-3

An earlier 111.
 

Dornier DO17 Z2

Spoiler

The flying pencil. There's been no flyable version of these aircraft in any other game that I'm aware of. They would fill much the same niche as the JU88, and could be fitted with fighter weapons on other modules if the developers so wished. This was also available to the Finnish airforce, so like so many others on this list, would make a nice easy entry into future early-war modules.

Heinkel HE115 

Spoiler

Like the Supermarine Walrus, these float planes could be used to fulfil a number of anti-shipping missions, they carried up to five 250kg bombs or a sea-mine which were quite often dropped in and around the Thames Estuary during this time in the war. Like the Walrus, these were also used to pick up stranded aircrew on search and rescue missions. Again, these were also flown by Finland, Norway and Sweden - so could potentially be used in a Norway/Finnish map in future.

Fiat CR.42 Falco

These were used by the Belgian airforce in limited numbers, but their inclusion could, again, be used in other theatres of the war - most notably Malta where it would see combat against Hurricanes, Blenheims and Gladiators.

Fokker D.XXI

These were in operation with the Dutch Airforce as their frontline fighter, but like many of the others in this list, could also be used at a later date on a Finland map.

Edited May 17, 2023 by LukeFF
swastikas

[Bremspropeller]

You forgot about this little gem ?

[ZachariasX]

Since we're getting the Ta-152, we CANNOT skip this Flying Dutchman:

 

[parkerc341]

22 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Since we're getting the Ta-152, we CANNOT skip this Flying Dutchman:

 

By god what is that thing?

[ZachariasX]

35 minutes ago, parkerc341 said:

By god what is that thing?

It's a De Schelde S.21. This is what happens when ship builders try to design aircraft.

[parkerc341]

10 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

It's a De Schelde S.21. This is what happens when ship builders try to design aircraft.

Well its certainly... unique. Looks like an Heinkel 111 and a FockeWulf 189 had a child

[Enceladus828]

I dunno, I feel it would be best to include these planes in an actual Battle of… installment such as Finland, France, Low Countries as the devs would have to make changes to the Normandy map to reflect how it looked in 1940, as well as add London, to make it worth adding these planes. Not an easy task to make these changes to the map and probably would have been easier if they did a 1940 and 1944 map during BoN development.

LukeFF said this regarding a 1940 map in the game: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/84170-bf109g-6as-worth-it/page/2/#comment-1270447

 

 

On 5/17/2023 at 3:57 AM, DaddyCat said:

An earlier Emil, should in theory be pretty easy to copy and make minor changes from the E-4 that is already in-game

Don’t know where you’re coming from when you say that the E-4 is already in the game.

[357th_KW]

There's been some discussion of opening up map making tools to the user base.  The new Western Front map would actually make a nice Sitzkrieg/Battle of France map if it was converted to 1940 and filled in.  That along with some period planes would make a pretty sweet combo.

[Mad_Mikhael]

On 5/17/2023 at 6:45 PM, ZachariasX said:

Since we're getting the Ta-152, we CANNOT skip this Flying Dutchman:

 

 

? ?
This manual is full of strange things ?

 

[ZachariasX]

12 hours ago, Mad_Mikhael said:

This manual is full of strange things ?

Circle quoting BS is a thing now as it was back then. This supposed Fw198 never existed and is indeed the S.21 that never really existed. Love the fact that they came up with somewhat precise drawings and performance figures about a plane Kurt Tank never heard of. This means we not only need the S.21, but we also need the German livery for it.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Circle quoting BS is a thing now as it was back then. This supposed Fw198 never existed and is indeed the S.21 that never really existed. Love the fact that they came up with somewhat precise drawings and performance figures about a plane Kurt Tank never heard of.

Yeah, Nazi propaganda. I've seen other examples. Just "leak" some info about your supposed Wunderwaffe planes to the British (or to your own press). Knowing about all your powerful aircraft might scare the enemy into submission (or inspire your population to greatness), or worst case, it's going to make aircraft identification more difficult. Is that a P-38 over there or a Fw198?

 

On 5/19/2023 at 6:17 AM, Enceladus said:

Don’t know where you’re coming from when you say that the E-4 is already in the game.

Well, the difference between the E-4 and E-7 is basically that the E-7 had a fitting for drop tanks and bombs. Since we don't have drop tanks in game, our E-7 is almost identical to the fighter-bomber version of the E-4 (E-4/B).

[FliegerAD]

The early war on the western front is interesting because major powers on largely equal footing clashed, and with them a lot of theories and ideas. Some proved to be viable, others not so much. For example, almost all of them had heavy, two-engined fighters. They even tried the Ju 88 Zerstörer over Norway, if you want to call that western front. Or the turret fighter...

 

I would love to fly the the Potez 631 vs the 110, or see how much I can actually hit with the Fairey Battle and survive.

 

Thing is, that scenario was never popular enough to carry a stand-alone game for a number of reasons.

 

The best we can hope for is to see some of those planes as part of another module/game. The Hampden in particular would be a most welcome addition.

[Hoss]

What IL2 needs is a Cadre of good third party developers like DCS has, to bring new content. Otherwise, and this is my opinion, once the promised remaining content is delivered I think we are looking at IL2's Swan song. Future, TC and FC development is anyone's guess where it will go. Money is going to be a problem if you don't build something the entire community wants to buy. At this point I'm no longer interested in buying TC, FC content or IL2 planes I have no interest in flying. Since our old developer found his round tuit and is taking WWII to the PTO, I'll be spending my money there. Now if IL2 goes to the Korean peninsula I'll jump in with both feet. I would buy a WWII Crimean map too, and Leningrad would be nice but we're talking a new plane set for that. I've got some friends on here that are spinners, and there's no one to give them the basic templates for the newest planes, they have gone to the other sim and started skinning there. The world is a mess and I imagine our Russian flight sim brothers have a lot on their plate right now. Time will tell where we go from here. I sincerely hope we see more quality planes, ships, maps in the future. 

JMTCW......

Cheers

Hoss