Do we need Drop Tanks in the game or would you be fine without them?

[Enceladus828]

Adding Drop Tanks into this game looks to be a very complex task as stated by the devs in the interview back in October (likely because the game engine was based on a WW1 engine which didn’t have them and many other things) and to do it accurately and scientifically has proven much more difficult than previously thought.

 

With the possibility of Drop Tanks never being added to the game (personally, improved AI such as being able to call for help and warned of bandits is more important than Drop Tanks), including over the Channel map and Rhineland map, I just want to know if people would be okay without Drop Tanks or would you want to see them added eventually.

[357th_KW]

What was attempted was a complete complex fuel management system, modeling fuel selectors, tank transfer etc.  Clearly this is a bridge too far, but I’d still love to see a simplified “bombs with fuel in them” approach at some point down the road when workload permits.  I know some will hate this, but this isn’t a study sim.  We push E to start the engines.  Drop tanks were extremely common on the western front during the Normandy and Bodenplatte period, and it just looks weird to see these fighters flying around slick all the time, not even having bomb racks onboard.  
 

The only request I’d have to go with that would be to ensure we can lock the drop tanks (and other mods and ordnance) onto the planes instead of just being able to prevent their use.  This would give mission designers and MP server hosts more tools to tailor their scenarios to the exact spec they need.

[Gambit21]

If the drop tank doesn't come with one of these - I don't give a rip.

 

 

 

[sevenless]

In the current incarnation of the game they have no added gameplay value.

Escorts of strategic bombers requiring 6-7 hours mission flight time and intercepts waiting for ground control giving you the correct interception vector and climbing to 12.000 metres height requiring 2+ hours flight time is not part of this game anyways.

All available game missions can be adapted accordingly, so that drop tanks are not required to fullfill the mission. It would bend history a little bit, but is negligable IMHO.

If, however, this game or its successor would ever like to aim to accurately represent historical events, drop tanks are a must have.

As for being a complex task, Daniel mentioned in one of the Q+A vids that they had an easy solution at the ready but management overcomplicated things. They obviously lost track that customer perception is what counts for a game environment and not accurately overengineered processes which require a year or more of development time. At the end of the day the user has to perceive that the game solution is plausible. Whatever happens "under the hood" is secondary for this perception.

[Guest]

I'd be happy just to see the fuel-selector in the Fw190 not poltergeisting left and right.

[Rjel]

I'd be pleased with drop tanks that served no other purpose than being cosmetic for screenshots. As 357th_KW mentioned, my P-51s look a little naked without them.

[=621=Samikatz]

Some aircraft can have missions generated for them in career that they don't actually have the range to accomplish, the I-16 struggles a lot and the Spitfires can have trouble on the Normandy map, so having at the very least simplified ones would be nice

[Charon]

Drop Tanks would be nice to have, but I don't think should be a priority. I'd rather have improved fuel systems and no drop tanks than drop tanks with the fuel system unchanged (although I realize the cost of implementing those features isn't likely equal).

[Hotaru_Ito]

Need? No. They might very occasionally be useful for extending the range of 109s, but apart from that we just don't fly long enough missions to really need them. It'd be fun to have them, but there are many other features I'd rather have first. 

 

If we had a map big enough to use them, or the ability to jump between maps, then I'd be more a lot interested, especially if they came with working time compression or time-skip features that kept long escort missions to a reasonable length.

[Mtnbiker1998]

Some of the shorter legged planes could use them for career modes. Spits, 109s especially come to mind. Perhaps not the highest priority but I definitely think they should be considered in a simplified form for the planes that need them.

 

I could care less if the P-51 got drop tanks for example, we can already fly circles around the map with internal fuel.

[DBFlyguy]

"Bombs with fuel in them" would fit perfectly fine with the rest of this games system fidelity. Does anyone know if devs are even working on drop tanks anymore or was it abandoned?

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by DBFlyguy

[Yankee_One]

I would love to see them even in a simplified version

[Jaegermeister]

I read many comments from people that want shorter missions that get right to the action, or want to skip time from takeoff directly to the target, patrol area or objective. The Normandy map has demonstrated great potential for both short and very long missions. Making drop tanks a regular part of missions seems counterproductive to me because people will just complain that the missions are too long, so it’s probably better not to have them just to limit the time and distance available.

 

For me personally flying missions, I think an hour plus of flight in a P-38 or a Mustang is plenty for me, so I am OK without them.There are certain planes that do need them like the Spitfire Vb or the Bf 109, but that can be worked around.

[DBFlyguy]

My thing with the whole "do we need them" is just how low our expectations have dropped over the years.... pretty much every WWII combat sim that I can remember has drop tanks going all the way back to European Air War, its a pretty basic feature in a combat flight sim/game. Even War Thunder has drop tanks.

 

 

 

[jeanba]

The lack of drop tanks for Spitfire IX missions crossing the channel is a big problem.

And I want to hear like in "The Big Show" : "drop your babies"

[Hanu]

17 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

My thing with the whole "do we need them" is just how low our expectations have dropped over the years.... pretty much every WWII combat sim that I can remember has drop tanks going all the way back to European Air War, its a pretty basic feature in a combat flight sim/game. Even War Thunder has drop tanks.

Though the need for drop tanks is very very limited, but I agree here in general level. Sure it pains me to say it. Like Marshall was also cancelled because being too complicated. It gives me a feeling like the game's Machine Spirit is angry and the proper rites have been lost. (WH40k people will understand the reference)

[dburne]

22 minutes ago, jeanba said:

The lack of drop tanks for Spitfire IX missions crossing the channel is a big problem.

And I want to hear like in "The Big Show" : "drop your babies"

 

Yep fully agree and that was what I was thinking...

[SCG_motoadve]

Maybe coincidence maybe not, but IL2 series was heading in the right direction developing, fuel management, drop tanks, Marshall, and about the time Jason Williams left, all of this was abandoned. I have zero hope they will be implemented in IL2.

[Calos_01]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

For me personally flying missions, I think an hour plus of flight in a P-38 or a Mustang is plenty for me, so I am OK without them.There are certain planes that do need them like the Spitfire Vb or the Bf 109, but that can be worked around.

Exactly, not an absolute necessity, but for some aircraft they would be needed or welcome.

[senseispcc]

For me on the Allies/Axis planes on the western WW2 front or for any plane on the eastern front, drop tanks are a must for the planes that could be equipped with them. Why? Only to add realism!

If in the future, a game is possible or a maybe then the drop-thanks is a must. Many battles are not possible without them.

Finally, for realism, on all fronts, it is an addition that is really a must!

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by senseispcc
Addition and clarifications.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

If they're tackling a high effort project, I think it would be more profitable to spend the time elsewhere. The game would be much better served by tackling a different area like adding more depth to the damage or engine modeling, or adding incendiary ammo. Drop tanks just seems like a high effort low yield project compared to what else they could be adding. If there's an easy/quick way to do them, then sure why not.

[Audgisil]

I also hope that fuel management and drop tanks still get implemented, even if it's in a somewhat simplified way. Like some people have already mentioned, they just "look right" on some of the planes and being able to see a formation of aircraft drop their tanks as they engage enemy aircraft would be cool. Also, I agree that the metronome like switching back and forth on some fuel gauges just looks silly.

 

Finally, I have spent hours and hours mapping buttons on my warthog setup that is super intuitive and lets me fly every single aircraft in the game in VR while being able to use every single feature right down to turning formation lights on and off without having to see or fumble around (hardly at all) on the keyboard or using custom stick setups on a plane by plane basis. If a button tuns on boost, and that plane doesn't have boost, that button doesn't do anything. I even took the time to map all the fuel management stuff in anticipation of a future release. If they're not going to ever implement fuel management, it would be nice to know (and to get those buttons back).

[Zooropa_Fly]

If they're needed for certain planes for certain missions, why not just add a with drop tanks fuel load as an option ?

When selected you get your full load plus whatever would be in the drop tank.

Not going the whole hog as many would obviously like, but at least it solves the practical issue raised.

Personally, I'll have a Dr1 with 18% and an enemy AF 1km away thanks.

[6./ZG26_Loke]

We need torpedos way more than droptanks. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

We need torpedos way more than droptanks. 

 

And a delivery system...

 

[IckyATLAS]

Absolutely. In my humble opinion we need drop tanks for the planes that had them. The reason we need them is that it is part of the elements that make flying the planes as real as possible and having the pilot to manage the fuel is part of it. We should have the possibility to set the drop tank's fuel load like for the planes internal fuel tanks. This gives to the mission builders more options. In this way we can decide to shorten the time of use of the drop tanks and the need to jettison them along the normal flight. In case of attack then they will be jettisoned whatever the fuel that remains inside. To make it less work intensive for the devs we could have it in a first step only for one or two planes and then as updates come along additional planes would be equipped. 

The devs said that they are committed to excellence and so if they want the best sim out there the drop tank and fuel management feature is a must.

 

I am not sure that there were torpedo attacks to ships in the WWII theaters corresponding to the maps we have with sea: Kuban, Rhineland, Normandy.

That feature is not a priority in our theaters, drop tanks yes.

 

 

[AtomicP]

22 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I read many comments from people that want shorter missions that get right to the action, or want to skip time from takeoff directly to the target, patrol area or objective. The Normandy map has demonstrated great potential for both short and very long missions. Making drop tanks a regular part of missions seems counterproductive to me because people will just complain that the missions are too long, so it’s probably better not to have them just to limit the time and distance available.

 

For me personally flying missions, I think an hour plus of flight in a P-38 or a Mustang is plenty for me, so I am OK without them.There are certain planes that do need them like the Spitfire Vb or the Bf 109, but that can be worked around.

I'm in the shorter missions camp. I don't have much gaming time due to family commitments and flight sims being as they are, there's a good chance you can take off, fly for 15 minutes and be shot down before crossing enemy lines or encountering any action: not fun! I'd much rather be in the thick of it sooner so if I need to restart I can do that in the same session and still have some enjoyment.

[saldy]

Drop tanks are priority #1 for me and my community. We see this as a big problem⚠️

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Yeah we need them. Its fascinating to see that they arent in this game still after 10 years, that the devs seem unable to implement them properly while they were included in ww2 sims like 25 years ago. 

[FuriousMeow]

The Devs have already explained why we don't have properly implemented drop tanks in the sim yet, so being a negative nancy about that and poopooing the devs won't get it any faster.

 

They might go with the half-assed bomb as an external fuel tank that every other ww2 sim has had for the past 25 years though. Hopefully all planes still drain from internal fuel and the drop tanks just refill that fuel load if they do implement them this way.

Edited May 12, 2023 by FuriousMeow

[Blitzen]

What I cannot understand is how CloD has them now, since the intro of Desert Wings Tobruk ( and they look cool,) but why after all this time we still got no tanks?

[LukeFF]

18 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

What I cannot understand is how CloD has them now, since the intro of Desert Wings Tobruk ( and they look cool,) but why after all this time we still got no tanks?

 

Because they are two separate teams with two separate sets of priorities. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

We’ve heard a lot about new World War I content and some other new niche planes, but not much about some desperately need revisions to the core game engine.  I don’t care about drop tanks specifically, but there sure seem to be lot of things that are currently regarded as limitations for this game, but that are no big deal in similar games.  

[Yogiflight]

For me a real fuel management would be much more important than drop tanks. Running out of fuel, because a tank in one wing was hit and there is no way to stop all the fuel, even the fuel in the other wing from spaying out into the air is annoying.

[Jade_Monkey]

In general we don't need them but some planes could definitely use them, e.g. Spit V.

 

I have flown some career missions where you run out in Normandy, and same with Typhoon.

 

I'd be happy with a simplified model just to add more fuel and of course for the visuals.

[Enceladus828]

11 hours ago, Blitzen said:

What I cannot understand is how CloD has them now, since the intro of Desert Wings Tobruk ( and they look cool,) but why after all this time we still got no tanks?

 

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Because they are two separate teams with two separate sets of priorities. 

It’s most likely because the CloD engine was based on a WW2 engine (IL-2 1946) which had Drop Tanks while GBs’ game engine is based on a WW1 engine (RoF) which didn’t have them and more specifically the groundwork to add complex fuel systems and Drop Tanks wasn’t laid in RoF. Many things in WW2 planes like hydraulics, retractable landing gear, and flaps weren’t in RoF or were very primitive and had to be created essentially from scratch for BoS. As they had less than two years to release BoS and they’re a small team, things in earlier WW2 combat sims had to be postponed so that the basic necessities of a WW2 plane could be in BoS.

At this point, the task of having complex fuel systems has proven to be more challenging than previously thought likely because aircraft systems in BoS aren’t as complex as they are in CloD. For instance, if you take a hit to the engine in GBs it says “First Engine Damaged”, in CloD if you take a hit to the engine it gives you a detailed list of what’s damaged like “Engine 1 Water Radiator Perforated!, Engine 1 Oil Radiator Perforated!, Engine 1 Governor Failure!, etc., etc.”

 

In CFS3, first generation IL-2 and other WW2 combat sims with Drop Tanks likely had a simple means of aircraft fuel systems and Drop Tanks. In CFS3 it was just 150% of fuel at the start of the mission until you reached 100% or you dropped them.

 

To answer your question, the groundwork for complex fuel systems and Drop Tanks was laid in IL-2 1946 which allowed them to be in CloD but was not in Rise of Flight which is why they’re not currently in GBs.

 

Edit: C'mon, Luke, the guy was just asking a question, you answered, I answered and somebody briefly followed up, that's all. The thread's not getting derailed and I don't see why you get so uptight whenever somebody briefly mentions CloD/IL-2 Dover series in a thread which in no way derails it. Lighten up.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Enceladus

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

To answer your question, the groundwork for complex fuel systems and Drop Tanks was laid in IL-2 1946 which allowed them to be in CloD but was not in Rise of Flight which is why they’re not currently in GBs.

 

There is another hint to your theory: In CloD you can easily have 100 planes roaming around. If you try that in GB...well...time dilation kicks in.

[LukeFF]

Guys, please bring the discussion back around to IL2: GB. Talk about CloD belongs in the CloD subforum.

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

Because we have only a simple fuel systems modeling and it will remain so, I am sure no-one would really complain about a simple drop tanks (bombs with fuel) implementation. Normandy careers with short legged aircraft (spits, typhoons, 109s) would really benefit a lot from having external fuel tanks. I still hope that it will be implemented at least for the aircraft where it makes sense if not all. 

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

I really would love (in fact I think the word is need) a complex fuel management system. I know the devs said it has too much difficulties when it was in beta phase, but well, the need is there. Simplified drop tanks would be something, at least. Not enough for what I desire, but something. ?‍♂️