Was communication with radar ubiquitous?

[Black_Hat]

I know that,

-"Freya" could detect any planes up to ~250km.

-onboard radios  could communicate with ground up to ~200km(e.g FuG_16_ZY)

 

Was radar communication ubiquitous?

eg. radar pick's up some bombers, did the radar vectored any airborne attacker's?

 

There would be no need to check 6(if not in dogfight). Surprise attacks like diving out of the sun, or clouds would not be a surprise. 

Maybe to understand me better, a example:

The movie Dunkirk, the spitfires would have had no reason patrolling their fuel low, they would have been vectored to the He 111.

Or, e.g:" a formation out of  8 typhoon's where on armed reconnaissance in the Lisieux-Bernay area(inside radar range) in August 1944 Normandy daytime. Suddenly/Surprisingly one hanging behind the formation spot's 109's diving on them. He fired a burst of cannon's, to warn the formation..." No radar communication?

 

I'm building a mission and i don't know how to make it realistic (radar vectors ubiquitous, only on ground, or not). Is it even possible to make radar vector communication in IL2?

 

I did research, but all i can find is that it was possible.

 

I know only one situation at daytime where it was used: 3 Spitfires were vectored over the channel by radar to a high altitude reconnaissance Bf 110, battle of britan.  

However it was not used ubiquitous, why not, or was it?

 

I think there's something in the technollogy i am not aware of. Can someone explain? Or does someone understand me☺️. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Back_Hat

[busdriver]

The notion that there would be no need to check six or there would be no surprises (bounced from out of the sun or clouds) gives radar too much credit. Analog displays and the very large “resolution cell” (roughly how far apart airplanes would need to be to distinguish them as two or more targets) were severe limitations to providing EID (electronic identification). Then you would have the altitude limitation where the curvature of the earth reduces acquisition of low altitude targets to shorter range. And there’s frequency congestion while trying to provide target information to separate formations with too many folks talking/listening on the same channel.

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, Back_Hat said:

I'm building a mission and i don't know how to make it realistic (radar vectors ubiquitous, only on ground, or not). Is it even possible to make radar vector communication in IL2?

Nope to my knowledge. You cannot get during the running of the game heading values or distances between objects or even generated by a radar.

You can however trigger an action when two objects pass a distance (preset and fixed) threshold Closer or Further, but that's it.

There is nothing on vectors.

However you can simulate a vector from your plane to the enemy plane only if you know in advance during the running mission where both will be precisely or approximately.

Let's say that you know more or less in which area enemy planes will be. IA planes either follow a trajectory with waypoints (known positions) or patrol a given area of attack, or simply stay where they have been spawned until they have something to attack, and as long as they are not in combat action where they can follow you for long distances.

The player may arrive from various places. You define Check Zone where the player may go through and when that check zone is triggered then you simulate a radio call with a vector. You have to have distinct radio calls from operations control with corresponding vectors for each player zone and enemy position pair.

Depending on your mission it can become quite heavy. If you have 5 possible spots for the player and one for the enemy that makes it for 5 vectors and so 5 radio calls. But if you have ten possible zones for the player and ten for the enemy that's a hundred vectors. Up to you to design the mission to make it mangeable.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by IckyATLAS

[Black_Hat]

Very interesting and informative?,

 

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

“resolution cell” (roughly how far apart airplanes would need to be to distinguish them as two or more targets)

I got it. The radar would be full of contact's, randomly heading, not knowing their strength, and  maybe it's just a high altitude patroll. Vectoring planes and keeping them online in this chaos would overfill the radio. Altough bomber formations could be picked up as a target. On ground you get a heading to intercept them. If not finding the bomber's, radar request could be possible. Am I realistic here?

 

Would it be realistic to trigger a radio warning, with close approximaetly(Warning when a unknown contact moves too close to friendly). Maybe with e.g "FuG 25a Erstling" installed, allowing friend or foe detection for radar. Adding some Immersion...

 

58 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

However you can simulate a vector from your plane to the enemy plane only if you know in advance during the running mission where both will be precisely or approximately.

I will try it like that, thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Back_Hat

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, Back_Hat said:

On ground you get a heading to intercept them. If not finding the bomber's, radar request could be possible. Am I realistic here?

Up to a point yes. But do not forget it works only if things are part of a predefined scenario and all the possible values are fixed in the code. 

That is a big limitation not to be able to upload dynamic information on mobile objects like planes, vehicles, ships, trains, as the game runs.

And requesting information is part of the scenario. Yo will have to simulate that.

You cannot press on a button on your Joystick and have a message or a request activated in the game. 

Unfortunately we have no means in the editor to receive a signal from outside of the program.

There is an MCU called Server Input which I have no idea what it does or how it can be used. My understanding it is that it connects to outside but probably just for the Multiplayer Server missions. Others can probably help you better than me on this.

[kraut1]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:52 PM, Back_Hat said:

Very interesting and informative?,

 

I got it. The radar would be full of contact's, randomly heading, not knowing their strength, and  maybe it's just a high altitude patroll. Vectoring planes and keeping them online in this chaos would overfill the radio. Altough bomber formations could be picked up as a target. On ground you get a heading to intercept them. If not finding the bomber's, radar request could be possible. Am I realistic here?

 

Would it be realistic to trigger a radio warning, with close approximaetly(Warning when a unknown contact moves too close to friendly). Maybe with e.g "FuG 25a Erstling" installed, allowing friend or foe detection for radar. Adding some Immersion...

 

I will try it like that, thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Hi,

maybe some months to late, but here a link to my groups that I am using for ca. 6years (with subtitles) and since 2020 (with audio messages) for all IL2 GB missions that I fly.

 

 

With these groups I will be warned by Radar (can be deactivated e.g. for eastern front) at range 20km, 15km, by nearby wingmen at range 10km, 8km...,500m and by nearby ground troops and airfield tower.

The probability of each warning can be adjusted by setting the random parameter.

It is a very primitive tool and as you have already discussed only range is reported, not direction / number of enemies.

For reporting grid locations of enemy planes I am using groups with one checkzone / grid and subtitle.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by kraut1