My experience with FW 190

[T6-ADStukadriver]

I guess I need some instructions on the new FW 190 model. I tried just taking off and landing...no real problem landing but the tail wheel lock seems to be temperamental...is there a trick to locking the tail wheel so that the initial roll is not so wild?  

And...I tried to dogfight with it last night. I chose what I thought would be an easy target so that I could at least get some sort of practice. I went against the iL2 single place aircraft thinking that its maneuverability would allow me to dominate with no real issue. I was positioned 1000 meters above it. The iL2 screamed up at me as I struggled to keep from going into a flat spin at around 300 KPH...it seemed I could only keep the 190 under control at speeds above 400 KPH...so I lost much in the tight turning I needed for the dogfight. The iL2 easily turned inside of me and if I did not just crash from loss of lift...it creamed me in the dogfight. I finally did get around it and into position on my fourth attempt at this practice...but after hitting it nicely with the combined guns...I went into another low altitude spin and crashed.

 

This doesn't seem right to me...the FW190 was an excellent fighter and from what I understand, it was not a bitch to fly.

 

What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

[=AVG=Zombie]

It is a boom and zoomer, nothing else. At least 400KPH with sweeping attacks. It is not the uber plane people hoped for....

[Panzerlang]

Offline it's a proper killer. Not tried it online yet and am a bit fwit of doing so because it won't get to play to it's traditional strengths vs what were, in real life, mostly non-vet/ace pilots. Online is the death of most pre-conceptions.

[Pringliano]

Offline it's a proper killer. Not tried it online yet and am a bit fwit of doing so because it won't get to play to it's traditional strengths vs what were, in real life, mostly non-vet/ace pilots. Online is the death of most pre-conceptions.

 

 

Very interesting PoV!  I tend to agree mostly, although being new to combat flight simulation, online still gives me that spice I didn't have in the civil sims...

[Requiem]

Pull back on the stick to lock the tailwheel and add enough throttle early on so you gain the rudder authority to keep yourself straight on takeoff.

 

When you're fighting it sounds like you need to ease up on the back pressure and you aren't using the vertical. Focus on using more vertical components to your flying rather than strictly horizontal and you should be fine as this way you won't need tight horizontal turning to try and keep up with the IL-2.

Edited July 29, 2014 by SYN_Requiem

[T6-ADStukadriver]

Okay...interesting...so my experience was not unusual and I was not playing/flying the machine in its best attributes. Good replies and thanks for taking the time to answer my posting. I guess I will stick with the Me109...

[VikingFjord]

Offline it's a proper killer. Not tried it online yet and am a bit fwit of doing so because it won't get to play to it's traditional strengths vs what were, in real life, mostly non-vet/ace pilots. Online is the death of most pre-conceptions.

I've been flying for more then 20yrs..i use the 190 with great sucess online..but i dont play much Mp as i should..mostly becuse of the lack of teamplay from others..and i would disagree with one above you that said its a Boom & Zoom..it works for that role to..but its not a pure Boom & Zoom

[IIN8II]

had a yak keep pace with me on the deck today, actually catch me when my speed never dipped below 600kph.

[Finkeren]

had a yak keep pace with me on the deck today, actually catch me when my speed never dipped below 600kph.

He must've started out with a slight altitude advantage. There is no way a Yak can keep 600km/h on the deck even with both radiators closed.

[Leaf]

had a yak keep pace with me on the deck today, actually catch me when my speed never dipped below 600kph.

 

 

He must've started out with a slight altitude advantage. There is no way a Yak can keep 600km/h on the deck even with both radiators closed.

 

Yep. Yaks are by far my worst enemy to face in my 190. Lagg's and La5's I can deal with (mainly due to their [relative] lack of manoeuvrability). Yaks are just awful. They seem to accelerate faster than my 190 and can easily out-turn it. Even if I have an altitude advantage, if I don't hit them within 2 or 3 passes, they'll have climbed up to my altitude. 

Other than that, I've found the FW to be surprisingly agile at over 400kmh.

Edited July 29, 2014 by LeafyPredicament

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I can imagine if they would model the La-5F to the game..it would easily go over 600km/h at deck and climb closer to 30m/s due "cold air boost" :D

[Finkeren]

Honestly the Fw 190 isn't that different from the La-5 with regard to the role they play in MP. Both are relatively fast, heavily armed fighters that perform their best at low level and have mediocre sustained turn and are overall poor at retaining energy during maneuvers.

 

The La-5 might have a slight edge over the 190 in performance at low level, but the 190 beats it handily in both armament and overall handling.

[Livai]

Honestly the Fw 190 isn't that different from the La-5 with regard to the role they play in MP. Both are relatively fast, heavily armed fighters that perform their best at low level and have mediocre sustained turn and are overall poor at retaining energy during maneuvers.

 

The La-5 might have a slight edge over the 190 in performance at low level, but the 190 beats it handily in both armament and overall handling.

 

Well, The LaGG-3 and the Yak-1 have the same Engine and Engine Power. Only difference the Weight about 300kg less. Now comes the funny part the Yak-1 has 60 km/h faster horizental speed and much better climb rate and very close to the La-5? Same Engine, Hello?  The Yak-1 give me the feelings I fly with 1.240 PS and the La-5 just a very little faster and sometimes the Yak-1 is better than the La-5.  How that feels

 

The Plane Balance is very funny very close together and sometimes wrong that the difference is that little you would never notice it. The Bf-109 is still better with the much with the huge distance to all planes if you fly the plane right

[FuriousMeow]

Well, The LaGG-3 and the Yak-1 have the same Engine and Engine Power. Only difference the Weight about 300kg less. Now comes the funny part the Yak-1 has 60 km/h faster horizental speed and much better climb rate and very close to the La-5? Same Engine, Hello?  The Yak-1 give me the feelings I fly with 1.240 PS and the La-5 just a very little faster and sometimes the Yak-1 is better than the La-5.  How that feels

 

The Plane Balance is very funny very close together and sometimes wrong that the difference is that little you would never notice it. The Bf-109 is still better with the much with the huge distance to all planes if you fly the plane right

 

Your powers of deducation are amazing. Same engine, therefore must have same performance!

 

There is drag, you missed that one - and a cleaner aircraft will be faster with the same engine.

[Dakpilot]

Spitfire and Mustang

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I've been flying for more then 20yrs..i use the 190 with great sucess online..but i dont play much Mp as i should..mostly becuse of the lack of teamplay from others..and i would disagree with one above you that said its a Boom & Zoom..it works for that role to..but its not a pure Boom & Zoom

While it can do some turning, don't bite that Apple, Eve. It's fast as hell, so I like keeping it nice and fast, just above VVS fighters, putting distance between us without effort.

 

Your powers of deducation are amazing. Same engine, therefore must have same performance!

 

There is drag, you missed that one - and a cleaner aircraft will be faster with the same engine.

In addition, same powerplant doesn't mean same power output, even.

[Livai]

Your powers of deducation are amazing. Same engine, therefore must have same performance!

 

There is drag, you missed that one - and a cleaner aircraft will be faster with the same engine.

 

but only at climbrate because of the 300kg less weight but not much more horizental speed.

[Finkeren]

Well, The LaGG-3 and the Yak-1 have the same Engine and Engine Power. Only difference the Weight about 300kg less. Now comes the funny part the Yak-1 has 60 km/h faster horizental speed and much better climb rate and very close to the La-5? Same Engine, Hello? The Yak-1 give me the feelings I fly with 1.240 PS and the La-5 just a very little faster and sometimes the Yak-1 is better than the La-5. How that feels

Wow. That's an oversimplification if I ever saw one. So in your mind engine power and weight are the only factors that determine an aircrafts top speed? If that was the case, then the IL-2 should be the fastest aircraft in BoS.

 

Also the Yak is nowhere near as fast as the La-5 at low level. I can easily get the La-5 to do 580 km/h in level flight with boost. The Yak reaches 550 on a good day.

[Livai]

Wow. That's an oversimplification if I ever saw one. So in your mind engine power and weight are the only factors that determine an aircrafts top speed? If that was the case, then the IL-2 should be the fastest aircraft in BoS.

 

Also the Yak is nowhere near as fast as the La-5 at low level. I can easily get the La-5 to do 580 km/h in level flight with boost. The Yak reaches 550 on a good day.

 

Ok, you maybe dont have looked inside the .gtp and study the plane balance like I did.

[IIN8II]

He must've started out with a slight altitude advantage. There is no way a Yak can keep 600km/h on the deck even with both radiators closed.

The engagement started at over 2k near even energy (yak had a bit more speed, not much). I went into a sustained steep dive at 780-790kph until I reach the deck assuming that if he tried to follow he would overspeed. Once on the deck I leveled off and pushed the throttle to 1.4 to keep as much speed as possible. I looked back over my shoulder and could still see him trying to keep up So I continued to straight and fast. 20-30 seconds later tracers are flying over my canopy, he had gained ground on me enough to start landing hits. The only thing that saved me was dragging him over friendly AA.

Edited July 29, 2014 by IIN8II

[Matt]

Now comes the funny part the Yak-1 has 60 km/h faster horizental speed and much better climb rate and very close to the La-5? Same Engine, Hello? 

Hello.

 

The Yak-1 is between 15 and 25 km/h (depending on altitude) faster than the LaGG-3 in BoS.

 

The Yak-1 is pretty fast (compared to the 190 and La-5 for instance), but its acceleration is very bad. Diving away might not help against it though.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

had a yak keep pace with me on the deck today, actually catch me when my speed never dipped below 600kph.

That is really unusual. I haven't lost a drag race with a Yak yet as long as I had 1000m or more to play with and gain some dive speed first, even in the Fw. I haven't lost a flat race on the deck with a Yak or La5 either as long as I have a bit of a head start. He must have had an abundance of E as he entered the fight. Did he take a longer shallower dive? It would make his E less initially but more sustainable in a long foot race.

Edited July 29, 2014 by A1FltTrn=HerrMurf

[Nonolem]

Hello.

 

The Yak-1 is between 15 and 25 km/h (depending on altitude) faster than the LaGG-3 in BoS.

 

The Yak-1 is pretty fast (compared to the 190 and La-5 for instance), but its acceleration is very bad. Diving away might not help against it though.

 

Strange, I have the feeling that Yak's acceleration is very good... Everything is subjective. And relative.

 

Maybe in comparison with the 109, if you fly it often. Because 109's acceleration is very, very good.

 

I don't fly german planes very often, but it seems that those whom use to fly on this side must never underestimated the Yak, and be carefull to play strictly on the assets of the 109 and 190 to win.

 

 

Ok, you maybe dont have looked inside the .gtp and study the plane balance like I did.

 

I don't think there is a "plane balance". And I don't know if it is possible to see anything in a .gtp file on this matter. Otherwise, everybody could modify the game very easily.

[VikingFjord]

Honestly the Fw 190 isn't that different from the La-5 with regard to the role they play in MP. Both are relatively fast, heavily armed fighters that perform their best at low level and have mediocre sustained turn and are overall poor at retaining energy during maneuvers.

 

The La-5 might have a slight edge over the 190 in performance at low level, but the 190 beats it handily in both armament and overall handling.

SPOT ON!

they work best for what i call speed runs..charging towards slower enemys with speed and firepower then taking a slight turn to maintain that energy and come for a secound round..those 4 canons is beast when used right

[Wulf]

I guess I need some instructions on the new FW 190 model. I tried just taking off and landing...no real problem landing but the tail wheel lock seems to be temperamental...is there a trick to locking the tail wheel so that the initial roll is not so wild?  

And...I tried to dogfight with it last night. I chose what I thought would be an easy target so that I could at least get some sort of practice. I went against the iL2 single place aircraft thinking that its maneuverability would allow me to dominate with no real issue. I was positioned 1000 meters above it. The iL2 screamed up at me as I struggled to keep from going into a flat spin at around 300 KPH...it seemed I could only keep the 190 under control at speeds above 400 KPH...so I lost much in the tight turning I needed for the dogfight. The iL2 easily turned inside of me and if I did not just crash from loss of lift...it creamed me in the dogfight. I finally did get around it and into position on my fourth attempt at this practice...but after hitting it nicely with the combined guns...I went into another low altitude spin and crashed.

 

This doesn't seem right to me...the FW190 was an excellent fighter and from what I understand, it was not a bitch to fly.

 

What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

 

 

Ok, first of all, at present we just have to play the hand we've been dealt so it's a case of just doing what works.

 

As regards takeoff, I find that if I throttle up to max takeoff power 'immediately' the thing tracks down the runway just fine.  So for takeoff, don't increase power progressively.  Go max!

 

As far as combat is concerned your biggest problem is forward visibility.  It's simply too difficult at present to keep an enemy aircraft in sight when observed through the forward windscreen panels.  This being the case I think you just have to 'cut your cloth' so to speak and forget about close-in combats involving lots of tight manoeuvering around your enemy.  If possible keep your distance.

 

So, what to do.  In most instances I think it pays to stick with classic energy tactics.  Gain altitude, find a target below you, if possible get the sun behind you and then dive on him converting your altitude to speed.  After the pass climb away and re-position for another attack.  If the element of surprise is gone, use faints, as necessary, to encourage your enemy to bleed away his energy in defensive turns.  When he's nice and slow and has lost the ability to hold a tight turn line him up and kill him.

 

At this stage I'm using all four cannon.  I'm doing this because I can't really employ any additional agility that comes with reduced weight, because of the visibility issues already mentioned.   The increased 'lead in the air' does, however, increase the potential for a crippling hit so, I'm going with that.  Typically I try to use my cannon in high angle-off deflection shots by putting a wall of (death) projectiles out in front of an enemy as he crosses my nose.  Remember, as with the 109, DON'T be tempted to follow an enemy into a turn.  Keep it straight after an attack and climb, re-position and then attack again if the conditions are favourable. 

 

If you're caught by an enemy use your roll-rate to get out of trouble.  By this I mean roll your aircraft so that your lift vector is in the opposite direction to that of  the attacking aircraft and then pull the stick back into your chest.  Don't over-do this of course or you'll stall.  Repeat this as necessary. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Wulf

[Gambit21]

A smart Yak pilot has little to fear from most 190 drivers in MP - as ever most are easily sucked into a turn fight from which they

cannot recover. Given the tactics I would have to use flying the 190 at this point, I'd just as soon stick with the La-5. It sounds sexier.

The 190 that you don't see - yeah of course - devastating.

 

When/if visibility improves, and convergence is implemented it will be good fun - mostly as a Jabo.

[Valok]

If you're caught by an enemy use your roll-rate to get out of trouble.  By this I mean roll your aircraft so that your lift vector is in the opposite direction to that of  the attacking aircraft and then pull the stick back into your chest.  Don't over-do this of course or you'll stall.  Repeat this as necessary. 

Admittedly I still suck in dogfight's, so I probably could have done something wrong (Feel free to lend tips by the way ), however it seems that roll rates across the board are way too fast, limiting the main advantage of the FW right now.

 

First day, I was at 5k and a LA-5 comes out of nowhere. I then start an almost 90º dive until I reached ~650-750Km - then flaps on, full 180º roll, and I pulled as hard/as fast as possible and started climbing again. 5 seconds later I check my 6 and the LA is still there.

 

Possible human error on my part or roll rates not working as they should?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Valok

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I like the 190 for looks but I'd rather have the 109 in a fight.

[Wulf]

Admittedly I still suck in dogfight's, so I probably could have done something wrong (Feel free to lend tips by the way ), however it seems that roll rates across the board are way too fast, limiting the main advantage of the FW right now.

 

First day, I was at 5k and a LA-5 comes out of nowhere. I then start an almost 90º dive until I reached ~650-750Km - then flaps on, full 180º roll, and I pulled as hard/as fast as possible and started climbing again. 5 seconds later I check my 6 and the LA is still there.

 

Possible human error on my part or roll rates not working as they should?

 

 

Yeah, I think it's generally acknowledged that roll rates are well over-egged in the game and any advantage that the 190 and to a lesser extent the 109 may have are small.  I really hope this gets fixed.  That said, I still think roll works well as a defensive measure in both aircraft, particularly if you can lure the trailing aircraft into a sustained turn before you roll out in the opposite direction, in an attempt to 'go invisible' under his nose.  There are no guarantees however.  I just had my online ass handed to me twice in a row.  Hurts bro.........

[Wulf]

Actually, the more I fly the thing online the more difficult I find it.  I tend to agree with OCTzo.  I suspect the 109 is a much easier aircraft to fight in online.  Yes, the 190 will probably do well enough as a ground attack aircraft but as far as air to air combat goes, I'm not so sure.  The Bf 109 seems far less prone to getting pear-shaped and IMO is the more agile and responsive of the two. I may prove to be wrong about that and I hope I am but I don't think so.  And importantly, this state of affairs doesn't gel with the historical record.  Yes, the 190 was used as a replacement for the Ju 87 when German efforts to develop a replacement failed, but the 190 was never conceived as a ground attack machine.   It was forced to assume that role for want of something better but it was, from its very inception an air supremacy fighter. FM tweaks may help here I guess so we can always hope.

[Finkeren]

One thing the Fw 190 has over all other planes in BoS is its handling. While not quite as forgiving to downright stick-yanking abuse as the 109 or the Yak, it performs maneuvers incredibly smoothly without a hint of shakyness which really aids in making difficult shots and retaining energy.

 

That IMHO is spot on. The 190 was considered a "pilots aircraft", not because it was able to pull insanely tight maneuvers (few pilots ever really needed that more than a few times in their careers) but because it was easy and pleasant to fly with minimal workload and predictable handling, and I think the BoS 190 delivers exactly that. It's just that it won't win you many fights in "Air Quake".

Edited July 30, 2014 by Finkeren

[J4SCrisZeri]

Given I'm not an ace at all, I sincerely hate the 190. It stalls and spins in my hands, feels light like a useless toy. Beautiful model though, and epic firepower with 4 cannons.

[Panzerlang]

The BoS 190 requires a very gentle touch to prevent spinning and other misbehaviours, but with consideration I find it flies very nicely.

[Finkeren]

I don't even think you have to be 'very gentle'. As long as you don't yank the stick or try to do Pugachev's Cobra at 200 km/h TAS, I find the 190 to be incredibly smooth and pleasant to control.

[Talisman]

Admittedly I still suck in dogfight's, so I probably could have done something wrong (Feel free to lend tips by the way ), however it seems that roll rates across the board are way too fast, limiting the main advantage of the FW right now.

 

First day, I was at 5k and a LA-5 comes out of nowhere. I then start an almost 90º dive until I reached ~650-750Km - then flaps on, full 180º roll, and I pulled as hard/as fast as possible and started climbing again. 5 seconds later I check my 6 and the LA is still there.

 

Possible human error on my part or roll rates not working as they should?

Flaps on full at that speed!  Should that be possible or desirable?

Edited July 30, 2014 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Leaf]

Should the Yak 1 be able to outclimb me and keep up with me at full throttle? Sincere question, because I don't know.

If you don't shoot it down first time you zoom down at it, it seems to be able to make up altitude very quickly. It also seems to have a very low stall speed. It can also keep up with me running at 1.4 ata at ground level (like N8 described).

Heelp!

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

Given I'm not an ace at all, I sincerely hate the 190. It stalls and spins in my hands, feels light like a useless toy. Beautiful model though, and epic firepower with 4 cannons.

That sounds like one of my takeoffs in it lol a whole lot of spins, I gotta say ground handling wise its pretty realistic.

[Wulf]

Should the Yak 1 be able to outclimb me and keep up with me at full throttle? Sincere question, because I don't know.

If you don't shoot it down first time you zoom down at it, it seems to be able to make up altitude very quickly. It also seems to have a very low stall speed. It can also keep up with me running at 1.4 ata at ground level (like N8 described).

Heelp!

 

 

I don't know how the 190 should perform against the Yak in sustained climb but my experience is the same as yours.  The Yak will catch you.  One thing you can try, which I used earlier today with success is 'step climbing'.  If you have an enemy on your tail, continue your climb until your speed drops to about 350 kph then level out and accelerate to about 450+ kph before commencing to climb again.  Repeat this process of climbing and level acceleration until you have built a sufficient enough altitude advantage over your enemy to enable you to switch back onto the attack.  This also works well in a 109.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Wulf

[Finkeren]

Well the Yak-1 with Klimov 105PF has about the same power/weight ratio as the early Fw 190 and only about 2/3 of the wing loading. There are other factors that affect climb rate ofc, but those two alone should give an indication, that the Yak might well outclimb the 190.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Don't get sucked into a turn fight with a Yak or try to outclimb it. As a new or average pilot, If you turn 360 degrees twice or 180 degrees more than three times you should disengage. Level speed or a shallow dive will allow you to extend as long as you are co-E. Climbing is not recommended for the most part against a Yak, although, I have done it with a surplus of E and against La's and Lagg's in a multitude of E states. You don't have to go pure BNZ but turn fights, especially level turn fights, in a 190 are for suckers.