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190 & 109 climb rates.


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pixelshader
Posted

I did this quickly, less than an hour total. I think it's accurate to +- half a sec maybe. I used video to time climbing from 1km to 2km altitude.

 

I used 70% fuel, planes trimmed to be neutral at about 500ias, no rudder corrections, hud reading for speed, altimeter for alt, throttle @ the dint on 190, 1.3ata on f4, full open on g2, and finally removed headrest on 109s as normal.

 

results are in format:  climb speed / seconds for 1km>2km / resulting meters/sec climb rate

 

 

190:

290 68.5s 14.6m/s
300 66.5s 15.0m/s
310 65.4s 15.3m/s
320 64.8s 15.4m/s
330 65.5s 15.3m/s
 
109f4:
280 43.3s 23.1m/s
290 41.5s 24.1m/s
300 41.7s 24.0m/s
 
109g2:
290 42.5s 23.5m/s
300 42.1s 23.8m/s
310 41.0s 24.4m/s
320 41.0s 24.4m/s

 

  • Upvote 1
pixelshader
Posted

Two more for fun, to push the f4!  :)  295 climb speed, 37% fuel.

 

2600 rpm: 36.9s or 27m/s

2700 rpm: 34.9s or 28.7m/s

 

I wonder if it could do over 30m/s with low fuel, and from 0 to 1km altitude?

Posted

got scharts?

pixelshader
Posted

I decided to quickly test the soviet crafts for comparison, again with 70% fuel. Max throttle (and boost on la5), assuming best climb speed to be about 290-300. I could not believe the results!

 

la5
49.1s 20.4m/s
 
yak1
54.2s 18.5m/s
 
lagg3
57.9s 17.2m/s
 
 
The LaGG is climbing better than the 190!?? Surely I had made a mistake, or maybe my assumption that the 190 is a decent climber is just wrong? I did one more run of the 190 just to be sure, and the result did not change.
 
190again
320ias 64.9s 15.4m/s
Posted

Not that I didn't already know, but the 109 is a friggin' BEAST when it comes to climb rate.

LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 I think the game has this "cold boost" a bit overdone thus giving all planes performance they never had.

303_Kwiatek
Posted

It looks like Fw 190 had too low climb rate.  It should be similar to LA5 with climb rate or even better when using 1.42 ATa

303_Kwiatek
Posted (edited)

LA5 got the same climb time to 5 km like Fw 190 A-3  ( at 1.3 Ata 2400 RPMs) - 6 minutes.  So both planes have equal average climb rate ,  both could used emergency boost  but LA only up to 2.5 km. Also Fw 190 A-3 without outtern wing cannons had reduced weight and climb rate was better.

Edited by Kwiatek
6./ZG26_5tuka
Posted (edited)

S!

 

 I think the game has this "cold boost" a bit overdone thus giving all planes performance they never had.

It's not only the cold weather but also the air pressure that increases engine performance. The higher the air pressure the better is the fuel / air mix inside the cylinders.

 

And yes the 190 was a bad climber in reality.  Don't know if worse than the Lagg-3 (guess they should be rather equal) but way behind the 109 for sure.

 

Also check the fuel load setting, maybe if the 190 has (weight wise) more fuel on board than Lagg-3 (at 70% each) it makes up for a bad comparison.

Edited by [Jg26]5tuk4
Posted (edited)

LA5 got the same climb time to 5 km like Fw 190 A-3  ( at 1.3 Ata 2400 RPMs) - 6 minutes.  So both planes have equal average climb rate ,  both could used emergency boost  but LA only up to 2.5 km. Also Fw 190 A-3 without outtern wing cannons had reduced weight and climb rate was better.

La-5 without Forzash is given with 5.4 minutes in Soviet documents, without boost. Also time to altitude says nothing about relative climb performance between 1000m and 2000m as given by pixelshader. The La-5 had a higher full throttle altitude than the Fw 190 A-3, which in a climb already loses boost pressure below 1000m and only has the second gear kick in above 2000m. Over roughly 1500m altitude it loses 3 m/s climb performance due to this. The La-5 on the other hand has the full throttle altitude of the first gear fairly close to 2000m, usually given a little below, which means it pretty much achieves its peak climb rate between 1000m and 2000m. Its simply the better climber at this altitude.

 

Edit: Added a chart showing climb rates as represented in the Tsagi book. I don't agree with them 100%, but they illustrate how the climb characteristics around 2000m compare between La-5 and Fw 190, (the altitudes on this chart appear a little too high, so 2500m looks more like what I know from other sources).

post-627-0-95411000-1406636200_thumb.jpg

Edited by JtD
Posted

Nice data. Thx.

303_Kwiatek
Posted (edited)

La-5 without Forzash is given with 5.4 minutes in Soviet documents, without boost. Also time to altitude says nothing about relative climb performance between 1000m and 2000m as given by pixelshader. The La-5 had a higher full throttle altitude than the Fw 190 A-3, which in a climb already loses boost pressure below 1000m and only has the second gear kick in above 2000m. Over roughly 1500m altitude it loses 3 m/s climb performance due to this. The La-5 on the other hand has the full throttle altitude of the first gear fairly close to 2000m, usually given a little below, which means it pretty much achieves its peak climb rate between 1000m and 2000m. Its simply the better climber at this altitude.

 

Edit: Added a chart showing climb rates as represented in the Tsagi book. I don't agree with them 100%, but they illustrate how the climb characteristics around 2000m compare between La-5 and Fw 190, (the altitudes on this chart appear a little too high, so 2500m looks more like what I know from other sources).

 

Your data is totaly wrong expecially for FW 190. It it clear example of russian propaganda. You could wipe your ass these kind of russian books - i know these russian charts very well i know that  they are far inaccurate and made by russian propaganda.

 

RL FW 190 A-3, A-4 got climb rate at low alt  ab. 16- 16,5 m/s depend of take of weight ( outtern cannon) at 1.3 Ata 2400 RPMs.  At emergency power 1.42 Ata 2700 RPMs climb was about 1-1.5 m/s better.

 

RL data for standart serial LA5   ( not F or FN version)  give 6:00 minutes to 5 km ( propably without forzah).  Fw 190 A-3/ A-4 got the same result  at climb settings 1.3 Ata 2400 RPMs.

 

So i think some should revised their knownledge and suorces. 

 

FW 190 was worse climber then contemporary 109 versions but still  Fw 190 climb rate was better then some russian fighters ( like LAgg3 ) and no worse then LA5 or Yak-1.  Also FW 190 was faster, better diver, better control response expecially at high speeds, better roll rate and firepower.  These is the historical facts.   If someone think that it was not true he live in russian propaganda fog.

Edited by Kwiatek
Posted

It's just odd that the Soviets Fw climb data is fairly close to German test reports. Fw factory data is somewhat better, but then I guess Fw factory data didn't really matter to the Soviets.

 

If you could post the La-5 test report with the 6:00min to 5000m, I'd be happy to learn. If you only have a figure from a book, well, I have plenty of figures from plenty of books already. Don't bother.

303_Kwiatek
Posted

Read about captured  Fabers Fw 190 A-3  RAE  test with climb rates  which got derated engine  ( only emergency 1.35 Ata 2450 RPMs).

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190a3.html

 

Dont read russian propaganda chart -  they understate peformacne of German planes ( expecially at low alts)  and overestimate russian ones ( usually take data from prototypes not serial frontline planes )

Posted (edited)

One more chart just for the sake of it. :biggrin:

 

For an A-5 with 4 cannons and 4000 kg. Not quite an A-3, but close. Flown with 1.32 ATA/2400 RPM.

 

1000-2000 m climb is not really one of the 190s strong points.

post-3376-0-91596400-1406654195_thumb.jpg

Edited by Matt
Posted

Why should I read a test I know and I know has more stuff wrong than right? Why is a British test of a captured Fw any more accurate than a Soviet test of a captured Fw? Am I supposed to disregard all the German, Soviet and US data I know because it contradicts the British test?

 

I know you love that British test because it shows how the Fw totally rulez. But, unfortunately, it not only contradicts _all_ other tests there are, but also disagrees with physics. I'll hardly go with the most wrong data there is out there.

 

Anyway, I posted the chart I posted to illustrate the problem of jumping to generalizations regarding climb performance based on data from a narrow altitude band. It's not surprised that the essence of my post was completely lost on you. :rolleyes:

  • Upvote 1
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Just bear in mind that the VVS planes in game are modelled to BEST conditions aka what they should have been, not what they usually were in many cases. Same applies to Luftwaffe planes, they should be modelled in game to best results, not the average. What messes up the results is this cold air thingy. I am sure we could have read about these incredible speed boosts in literature. Now we have planes going way over their any historical speeds and if the modelling continues like this the late war planes will be comparable to jets soon. 

 

 Cold air gives boost, but also denser air means more friction and friction increases drastically with speed and to overcome this you need even more power. So how much does cold air really give you a boost than a "feeling" the plane is better. No documentation has been shown about these values so far. So I guess the boosts we see in BoS would be a bit less than now in RL situation. 

Posted

 

I decided to quickly test the soviet crafts for comparison, again with 70% fuel. Max throttle (and boost on la5), assuming best climb speed to be about 290-300. I could not believe the results!

 

la5
49.1s 20.4m/s
 
yak1
54.2s 18.5m/s
 
lagg3
57.9s 17.2m/s
 
 
The LaGG is climbing better than the 190!?? Surely I had made a mistake, or maybe my assumption that the 190 is a decent climber is just wrong? I did one more run of the 190 just to be sure, and the result did not change.
 
190again
320ias 64.9s 15.4m/s

 

 

You dont made a mistake, you have right. 

303_Kwiatek
Posted (edited)

Why should I read a test I know and I know has more stuff wrong than right? Why is a British test of a captured Fw any more accurate than a Soviet test of a captured Fw? Am I supposed to disregard all the German, Soviet and US data I know because it contradicts the British test?

 

I know you love that British test because it shows how the Fw totally rulez. But, unfortunately, it not only contradicts _all_ other tests there are, but also disagrees with physics. I'll hardly go with the most wrong data there is out there.

 

Anyway, I posted the chart I posted to illustrate the problem of jumping to generalizations regarding climb performance based on data from a narrow altitude band. It's not surprised that the essence of my post was completely lost on you. :rolleyes:

 

Beacasue British test were made with good condition not damaged Fw 190 A-3 and their test is corensponded well ( if we analyze used bost rating) with German charts and data.

 

Well i dont know what earth you live but if you belive in russian or rather i should say soviet propaganda and  charts  you have to be very naive person.

 

Here are real life data which i collected for years about performacne of these planes :

 

109 F-4 at 1.42 Ata :

 

0 -537 km/h

6.2 - 650 km/h

 

At 1.3 Ata

 

0 - 523 km/h

6.0 - 635 km/h

 

climb time - 6 km - 6.0 min

turn time- 19-20 sec

 

 

109 G-2 at 1.3 Ata ( tailwheel retractable)

 

0 - 537 km/h ( 525 km/h - fixed tailwheel)

7.0 - 660 km/h ( 650 km/h - fixed taiwheel)

 

climb time - 5 km - 4.11 min

 

turn time - 20-21 sec

 

 

Fw 190 A-3  at 1.42 Ata

 

0 - 540 km/h

6.4 - 660 km/h

 

At 1.3 Ata

 

0 - 520 km/h

5.7 km - 630 km/h

 

climb time 5 km - 6.0 min

turn time - 22 sec

 

Some German data claim for A-3 without outtern cannons ( 3850 kg):

 

1.42 Ata

 

0 - 565 km/h

6.5 - 680 km/h

 

1.3 Ata

 

0 - 540 km/h

 

5.8 km - 648 km/h

 

 

La5 1942:

 

0 - 509 ( 535 km/h - forzah)

6.5 - 580 km/h

 

climb time to 5 km - 6.0 min

turn time - 22 sec

 

 

Lagg3 ( 1942) M 105 PF

 

0 - 507 km/h

4.0 - 566 km/h

 

climb time - 5 km - 6.4 min

turn time - 21-22 sec

 

Yak1 ( 1942) M 105 PF

 

0 - 500 km/h

3,6 - 571 km/h

climb 5 km - 6 min

turn time - 19 sec

Edited by Kwiatek
Posted

I hope you are aware that the RAE tests with a 3900 kg aircraft at 2400rpm/1.34ata show worse climb rates than the Tsagi graph does, even though they tested a 4000kg plane at 2400rpm/1.32 ata. 13.5 m/s peak climb rate down low is pretty poor and far off any other data. A loss of only 34kW in climbing power between 1st and 2nd supercharger gear is implausible, since the engine produces 150kW less. All other climb data reflects that. So it's wrong, but you call that a good correspondence. Well, whatever.

  • Upvote 1
Schmalzfaust
Posted

Anyone knows whats the maximum time I can fly with 1.42 Ata in die 190? Also what's the maximum permanent Ata I can fly without damaging the engine?

  • 1CGS
Posted

Why should I read a test I know and I know has more stuff wrong than right?

cause its russian (soviet) propaganda, and its only propaganda that exists, you know ;)

 

Just bear in mind that the VVS planes in game are modelled to BEST conditions aka what they should have been, not what they usually were in many cases.

thats not true, all VVS airplanes modelled correspondingly to serial production machines control tests by NII VVS/LII VVS.

  • Upvote 3
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Then put the data on the table :) All VVS planes(German too to an extent) are too fast at the moment if you look at sources like Gordon - Khazanov who used TsAGI and NII VVS data in their books among other. If you read those NII VVS reports there are countless lists of flaws found in serial planes: misaligned access doors, badly rigged landing gears, rigging problems with wings, systems failing due badly built etc. So I think I am pretty right saying the planes are in their best shape now rather than serial built ;)

Posted

What you are saying isn't necesarilly incorrect Flanker, but it's really the best way to go about it. After all, we are not modelling the Luftwaffes inability to cope with the Russian climate either with engines refusing to start without a bonfire lit underneath them or breaking down due to inferior ersatz lubricants.

pixelshader
Posted (edited)

I tested acceleration, a nice easy test with autopilot. I will share it too. 70% fuel again, measuring time from 350 to 450 hud speed with just a phone stopwatch. Accurate to maybe +- .3 sec.

 

190

2400rpm 21.0s
2500rpm 19.0s
2600rpm 17.9s
2700rpm 16.7s
 
109f4
2500rpm 14.7s
2600rpm 12.8s
2700rpm 11.7s
 
109g2
2600rpm 14.3s
 
la5
max+boost 15.2s
 
yak1
max 20.4s
 
lagg3

max 24.0s

 

 

Out of curiosity I also tried to test the stall speed with idle engine, and the maximum aoa using the snap view to look what I assume is exactly 90degrees, and the trusty method of drawing lines on screenshots. I think I could get the aoa to within half a degree accuracy, but I am not sure what it means. I didn't measure the yak or lagg, because the autopilot goes into oscillations for some reason.

 

190

max aoa: 15.4 degrees

@speed: 169km/h ias

 

109f4 
max aoa: 17.5
@speed: 156
 
109g2 
max aoa: 17.3
@speed: 159
 
la5 
max aoa: 16.2
@speed: 180
 
I have no idea what it means really. Of course, the 109 is floating around like a feather as expected. I thought it was strange that the la5 stalls at a faster airspeed than the 190, but a higher aoa at the same time. Does anyone know if that is expected?
Edited by pixelshader
6./ZG26_5tuka
Posted (edited)

I thought it was strange that the la5 stalls at a faster airspeed than the 190, but a higher aoa at the same time. Does anyone know if that is expected?

Stall speed depends on the airfoil and the AoA you currently have. Take this one as example:

NACA4421_cl_cd.gif

Lift (Cl) increases with higher AoA up to a certain amount (so does drag, alias Cd). At some point the lift starts going reverse, means it's decreasing while drag is raising more rapidly the more you increase your AoA.

At this point increasing your AoA is also rasing your stall speed.

 

Don't have any data on the La-5 / 190 airfoils but the most likely reason for your test resultl is that you pulled too steeply when performing the stall test with La-5.

Edited by [Jg26]5tuk4
pixelshader
Posted (edited)

Stall speed depends on the airfoil and the AoA you currently have. Take this one as example:

NACA4421_cl_cd.gif

Lift (Cl) increases with higher AoA up to a certain amount (so does drag, alias Cd). At some point the lift starts going reverse, means it's decreasing while drag is raising more rapidly the more you increase your AoA.

At this point increasing your AoA is also rasing your stall speed.

 

Don't have any data on the La-5 / 190 airfoils but the most likely reason for your test resultl is that you pulled too steeply when performing the stall test with La-5.

 

I used autopilot! It is extremely smooth, except for in the yak and lagg for whatever reason. At 1000m, I should have mentioned.

Edited by pixelshader
  • 1CGS
Posted

S!

 

 Then put the data on the table :) All VVS planes(German too to an extent) are too fast at the moment if you look at sources like Gordon - Khazanov who used TsAGI and NII VVS data in their books among other. If you read those NII VVS reports there are countless lists of flaws found in serial planes: misaligned access doors, badly rigged landing gears, rigging problems with wings, systems failing due badly built etc. So I think I am pretty right saying the planes are in their best shape now rather than serial built ;)

 

You should remember - that all datas are re-calculated to standart conditions (+15 C / 760mm), so yes - all airplanes speed qauges shows higher speeds - as its -15 outside at the Stalingrad.

And all planes had serial production planes conditions - the ones when frontline usints get them, as well for germans.

As well we had combined control report for serial production planes from few factories, which build fighterplanes in USSR thru 1943, and i would say - each factory, sometimes, build its own airplane, due to workers quality, etc.etc   ;)

 

PS: usually, most of the books we had on LaGG`s/La  - is just another re-print / re-compilation, nothing new there, ive gathered lots of copyes of original test reports from TSAMO and such, and sometimes i wonder where these sources texts came from.

  • Upvote 1
pixelshader
Posted

To me what it means, is that the LA is producing more power than the 190 (power to weight ratio).

 

This allows the LA to have a higher angle of attack, but this becomes a double edge sword (just think climb speeds and angle of attack or refer graph posted above), and due to the high wing loading the aircraft stalls out at a higher speed to the 190.

 

The test is with 0% throttle!

Posted

The Fw 190 and the La series have a very similar airfoil, both are using the NACA 23000 series of similar thickness. The La series has leading edge slats, though, which make it different. The La should have a slightly lower stall speed than the Fw 190, due to the lower wing loading alone, and even lower due to the leading edge slats (at a higher angle of attack).

 

Thanks pixelshader for doing all those test and sharing the results.

pixelshader
Posted

The Fw 190 and the La series have a very similar airfoil, both are using the NACA 23000 series of similar thickness. The La series has leading edge slats, though, which make it different. The La should have a slightly lower stall speed than the Fw 190, due to the lower wing loading alone, and even lower due to the leading edge slats (at a higher angle of attack).

 

Thanks pixelshader for doing all those test and sharing the results.

 

Puzzling.. If I look again a few times the La doesn't truly lose control until a bit over 170, even if it is somewhat unstable to the autopilot beginning at under 180. At what point is it properly considered 'stalled'? I think it clearly spins out before the 190, though.

 

Nitpicking I think, but it was more fun to test things than actually play the game today, hahah.

6./ZG26_Gielow
Posted

Good topic !!!

303_Kwiatek
Posted (edited)

Some data for uber Laggs, LA and Yaks fighters:

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/lag.htm

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/yak.htm

 

 

 

                                                     Engine     Armament       Sea level     Max Speed          Climb          Cel.   Turn    Weight

LaGG-3 (29, 32 series) 1942 M-105PF 1 ShVAK + 1 UBS  507 km/h 566 km/h/ 6.2 km [800 m/min]   10 km 21 s 3160 kg

 

La-5 1942                                M-82 2      ShVAK [2*200]    509 km/h 580 km/h/6.25 km 6.0m to 5 km 9.5 km 22 s. 3360 kg

 

 

La-5F 1943                                M-82F 2 ShVAK [2*200]     557           600/6.3 km       5.5 min to 5 km  9.55 20 s. 3200 kg

 

Yak-1 1942                                M-105PF ShVAK [120],2 ShKAS [2*750]   500 km/h 571 km/h/3650 6.0 to 5 km 19 s.  10 km 980 km 2885 kg  

 

Yak-1 light 1942                         M-105PF ShVAK [120] none     526 km/h 592 km/h/3800 4.7 to 5 km  17 s. 11 km   2780 kg

 

 

 

 

And for Fw 190 A-3 :

 

Fw 190 Aa-3  (export version for Turkish)

 

fw190-a3-sheet-26-11-42.jpg

 

fw190-a3-climb-speed-26-11-42.jpg

 

German version : Fw 190 A-3

 

fw190-a3-datasheet-29-11-42.jpg

 

 

 

Looking for all these RL data there is clearly that Fw 190 A-3 is undermoldeled in performacne in BOS comparing to other planes expecially russian ones. Mostly Fw 190 is too slow and got too weak climb rate. 

 

Not wonder if BOS Fw 190 performacne was made according to russian data.

post-1014-0-80129800-1406807672_thumb.jpg

post-1014-0-76982800-1406807714_thumb.jpg

post-1014-0-38368400-1406808271_thumb.gif

Edited by Kwiatek
  • Upvote 1
Posted

Those test results are very interesting. Thanks! I have noticed the FW190 manifold pressure drops right off between 1000-2000m. The first time I noticed I wondered if my throttle was glitched then realised the supercharger was changing gears at 2000m.

 

Looking on the bright side the FW190 is a challenge to fly against the Ruskies like this. I like the German birds but it would get boring flying the Bf109 disciplined, fast and vertical and never getting shot down. The FW190 on the other hand is a challenge and I'll probably fly it more than the Bf109.

Posted

There is just some weird anomaly with the supercharger anyway.

 

It switches around 2300 meters and then the performance goes down like crazy.  It should switch around 3000 meters, if run at Start/Notleistung. Also the top speed with first gear is at those 2300 meters, while it should be at critical altitude (~1000 meters). But even at 3000 meters, the speed of the 190 is a bit too low.

 

I think the supercharger gears are just modelled incorrectly.

Posted (edited)

Some data for uber Laggs, LA and Yaks fighters:

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/lag.htm

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/yak.htm

 

 

 

                                                     Engine     Armament       Sea level     Max Speed          Climb          Cel.   Turn    Weight

LaGG-3 (29, 32 series) 1942 M-105PF 1 ShVAK + 1 UBS  507 km/h 566 km/h/ 6.2 km [800 m/min]   10 km 21 s 3160 kg

 

La-5 1942                                M-82 2      ShVAK [2*200]    509 km/h 580 km/h/6.25 km 6.0m to 5 km 9.5 km 22 s. 3360 kg

 

 

La-5F 1943                                M-82F 2 ShVAK [2*200]     557           600/6.3 km       5.5 min to 5 km  9.55 20 s. 3200 kg

 

Yak-1 1942                                M-105PF ShVAK [120],2 ShKAS [2*750]   500 km/h 571 km/h/3650 6.0 to 5 km 19 s.  10 km 980 km 2885 kg  

 

Yak-1 light 1942                         M-105PF ShVAK [120] none     526 km/h 592 km/h/3800 4.7 to 5 km  17 s. 11 km   2780 kg

 

 

 

 

And for Fw 190 A-3 :

 

Fw 190 Aa-3  (export version for Turkish)

 

fw190-a3-sheet-26-11-42.jpg

 

fw190-a3-climb-speed-26-11-42.jpg

 

German version : Fw 190 A-3

 

fw190-a3-datasheet-29-11-42.jpg

 

 

 

Looking for all these RL data there is clearly that Fw 190 A-3 is undermoldeled in performacne in BOS comparing to other planes expecially russian ones. Mostly Fw 190 is too slow and got too weak climb rate. 

 

Not wonder if BOS Fw 190 performacne was made according to russian data.

 

 

Not wanting to get into "russian data" discussion, it does seem to me that climb rate and top speed is a little too low in BoS

Edited by LeafyPredicament
  • Upvote 2
Posted (edited)

 

 

Some data for uber Laggs, LA and Yaks fighters:

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/lag.htm

 

http://www.wio.ru/tacftr/yak.htm

 

 

 

                                                     Engine     Armament       Sea level     Max Speed          Climb          Cel.   Turn    Weight

LaGG-3 (29, 32 series) 1942 M-105PF 1 ShVAK + 1 UBS  507 km/h 566 km/h/ 6.2 km [800 m/min]   10 km 21 s 3160 kg

 

La-5 1942                                M-82 2      ShVAK [2*200]    509 km/h 580 km/h/6.25 km 6.0m to 5 km 9.5 km 22 s. 3360 kg

 

 

La-5F 1943                                M-82F 2 ShVAK [2*200]     557           600/6.3 km       5.5 min to 5 km  9.55 20 s. 3200 kg

 

Yak-1 1942                                M-105PF ShVAK [120],2 ShKAS [2*750]   500 km/h 571 km/h/3650 6.0 to 5 km 19 s.  10 km 980 km 2885 kg  

 

Yak-1 light 1942                         M-105PF ShVAK [120] none     526 km/h 592 km/h/3800 4.7 to 5 km  17 s. 11 km   2780 kg

 

 

 

 

And for Fw 190 A-3 :

 

Fw 190 Aa-3  (export version for Turkish)

 

fw190-a3-sheet-26-11-42.jpg

 

fw190-a3-climb-speed-26-11-42.jpg

 

German version : Fw 190 A-3

 

fw190-a3-datasheet-29-11-42.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Looking for all these RL data there is clearly that Fw 190 A-3 is undermoldeled in performacne in BOS comparing to other planes expecially russian ones. Mostly Fw 190 is too slow and got too weak climb rate. 

 

Not wonder if BOS Fw 190 performacne was made according to russian data.

"Kraftstoff C3" on your report - do you know what it is?  :)  There is enough german data with common serial A3 that climbs below 15 m/s if you count average from SL to 2000 m. And even if it would be not 15.4 but 16.4 it is still slower than even Lagg just because Fw-190 at 2400 rpm has less power per weight than Lagg at ful throttle, it's simple. FW-190 in game is surely not made according to russian data because its turn rate is far better than russian 29 sec at 1000 meters (and about 26 with 15 degree flaps if i remember right that report). So just accept that 190 on 2400 rpm was good in climb only when compared with P-47 or P-51D at low to middle alt. 

Edited by Sch.G.1_Gil---
303_Kwiatek
Posted (edited)

"Kraftstoff C3" on your report - do you know what it is?  :)  There is enough german data with common serial A3 that climbs below 15 m/s if you count average from SL to 2000 m. And even if it would be not 15.4 but 16.4 it is still slower than even Lagg just because Fw-190 at 2400 rpm has less power per weight than Lagg at ful throttle, it's simple. FW-190 in game is surely not made according to russian data because its turn rate is far better than russian 29 sec at 1000 meters (and about 26 with 15 degree flaps if i remember right that report). So just accept that 190 on 2400 rpm was good in climb only when compared with P-47 or P-51D at low to middle alt. 

 

I think you need more knowledge to judge these things.

 

C3 mean that Fw 190 used C3 fuel - 100 octan.  Maby russian in their capured Fw 190 used lower octan like in some RAF planes - thats why  performacne of tested planes was worse then should be.

 

Even Fw 190 A-5 which got the same engine like A-3/ A-4 but it was more heavy plane got 15 m/s. Obviously A-3 and A-4 got better climb rate casue both got less take off weght  -  so  16 - 16.5 m/s  at 1.32 Ata 2400 RPMs is accurate for these version depend of equimpent  (  outterwing cannons). At 1.42 Ata and 2700 RPMs climb would be much better even of only for 3 minutes allowed.

 

Where you hell got 29 sec???

 

Russian data claim for Fw 190 A-4 at 1000m  -  22-23 second turn time   ( left - right).

 

Fw 190 A-3 got similar climb time to 5 km  like LA5 and Yak-1 from these time and shouldn;t be worse here.   Lagg3 should be much worse then all these planes (  800 m/min -  13.5 m/s).

Edited by Kwiatek
  • Upvote 3

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