What is the key difference between the He 111 H-6 and the He 111 H-16?

[Gerlat]

I couldn’t find any info.

[Lusekofte]

Obviously the cockpit layout. 
H6
The H-6 initiated some overall improvements in design. The Jumo 211 F-1 engine of 1,007 kW (1,350 hp) increased its speed while the defensive armament was upgraded at the factory with one 20 mm (0.79 in) MG FF cannon in the nose and/or gondola positions (optional), two MG 15 in the ventral gondola, and one each of the fuselage side windows. Some H-6 variants carried tail-mounted MG 17 defensive armament.^[54] The performance of the H-6 was much improved. The climb rate was higher and the bomber could reach a slightly higher ceiling of 8,500 m (27,900 ft). When heavy bomb loads were added, this ceiling was reduced to 6,500 m (21,300 ft). The weight of the H-6 increased to 14,000 kg (31,000 lb). Some H-6s received Jumo 211F-2s which improved a low-level speed of 365 km/h (227 mph). At an altitude of 6,000 m (20,000 ft) the maximum speed was 435 km/h (270 mph). If heavy external loads were added, the speed was reduced by 35 km/h (22 mph).^[55]

 

H16

The third mass production model of the He 111H was the H-16, entering production in late 1942. Armament was as on the H-11, except that the 20 mm (0.79 in) MG FF cannon was removed, as the H-16s were seldom employed on low-level missions, and was replaced with an MG 131 in a flexible installation in the nose (A-Stand). On some aircraft, He 111 H-16/R1, the dorsal position was replaced by a Drehlafette DL 131 electrically powered turret, armed with an MG 131. The two beam and the aft ventral positions were provided with MG 81Zs, as on the H-11. The two 1,000 kW (1,300 hp) Jumo 211 F-2 provided a maximum speed of 434 km/h (270 mph) at 6,000 m (20,000 ft); cruising speed was 390 km/h (240 mph) and service ceiling was 8,500 m (27,900 ft).^[58] Funkgerät (FuG) radio equipment. FuG 10P, FuG 16, FuBl Z and APZ 6 were fitted for communication and navigation at night, while some aircraft received the FuG 101a radio altimeter. The H-16 retained its eight ESAC internal bomb cells; four bomb cells, as on previous versions could be replaced by a fuel tank to increase range. ETC 2000 racks could be installed over the bomb cell openings for external weapons carriage. Empty weight was 6,900 kg (15,200 lb) and the aircraft weighed 14,000 kg (31,000 lb) fully loaded for take off. German factories built 1,155 H-16s between the end of 1942 and the end of 1943; in addition, 280 H-6s and 35 H-11s were updated to H-16 standard.^[58]An undetermined number of H variants were fitted with the FuG 200 Hohentwiel. The radar was adapted as an anti-shipping detector for day or night operations.^[59][60]

[LukeFF]

Cockpit layout and armament: the H-16 features a 20mm MGFF cannon as the standard nose turret and a 13mm MG131 machine gun in the dorsal turret. Belt-fed MG 81s are fitted to the side windows and the ventral position - these are a replacement for the drum-fed MG 15s of the H-6.

 

The H-16 can also carry a larger bomb load due to it not carrying the extra fuselage fuel tank found in the H-6.

[danielprates]

20 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

The H-16 can also carry a larger bomb load due to it not carrying the extra fuselage fuel tank found in the H-6.

 

So it got lighter overall? I always read that successive versions would always increase defensive armament at the expense of weight and performance loss, and thus newer versions had increasingly worse performance.

[Gerlat]

Thanks for the answers!

 

[Lusekofte]

I do miss flying HE 111

[Bilbo_Baggins]

11 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

I do miss flying HE 111

 

You miss flying the Heinkel? I flew the H-6 just a few hours ago! Why can't you fly it?

 

One thing I wonder about is the armor on the Heinkel. That waist gunner must have been so vulnerable. Not sure if there was any armor in the rear fuselage?

Edited March 22, 2023 by Bilbo_Baggins

[Lusekofte]

48 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

You miss flying the Heinkel? I flew the H-6 just a few hours ago! Why can't you fly it?

 

One thing I wonder about is the armor on the Heinkel. That waist gunner must have been so vulnerable. Not sure if there was any armor in the rear fuselage?

I haven’t Flown Gb for a while. 
only armour in Heinkel was pilot seat

[BlitzPig_EL]

Same with B17 waist gunners.  Nothing between you and the great beyond but a thin sheet of aluminum.

[Irishratticus72]

40 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Same with B17 waist gunners.  Nothing between you and the great beyond but a thin sheet of aluminum.

And some brown pants.

[Kurfurst]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:20 PM, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

You miss flying the Heinkel? I flew the H-6 just a few hours ago! Why can't you fly it?

 

One thing I wonder about is the armor on the Heinkel. That waist gunner must have been so vulnerable. Not sure if there was any armor in the rear fuselage?

 

There was a large 8,5mm armored bulkhead behind in the mid section of the fuselage, covering the upper bulkhead section, i.e. for the top gunner, and the bomb bay from attack from the rear section. However the beam gunners seem to have only had a side shields covering them, with some minimal side - rear coverage, but were not protected fully not from the rear. It's curious why it was so as its more or less the same in the later H-20 version.

 

Total weight of armor was 600 lbs in this early war He 111H(-3?) captured in early 1940.

 

 

 

It seems to be more or less the same protection arrangement on the H-20 (which I believe is mostly akin to the H-16).

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by VO101Kurfurst

[RossMarBow]

can anyone tl;dr this

 

if they have the same engines
but h16 has heavier guns but less armour

 

what size bullets can the H6 armour stop?

 

I'm guessing if you take the H16 but remove all the extra guns it will climb better than the H6

Personally I would always take the H16 with the heavy turret upgrades
those turrets are crazy powerful at shooting planes and stuff on the ground 

[Noisemaker]

A minor 7th.

[[LeLv34]Lykurgos88]

In game the most important armament difference is that H-16 can carry 8x 250 kg bombs. The H-6 cannot.