Ballistics

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Are ballistics modelled to a satisfactorily degree in GB's? I ask this because it doesn't seem like they are. Bombers are very large aircraft with lots in the way of a pilot, particularly if you are shooting from dead six. If a bullet has to travel through multiple systems, bodies, armour and cargo (if carried) it's going to start doing unexpected things, instead of just travelling in a dead straight line. I'm fairly sure that reduction in velocity and penetrating power is modelled but ricocheting, tumbling and various other ballistic effects don't seem to be. 

Edit - this post is not intended to start any kind of silly shenanigans, it's a genuine question.

Edited March 10, 2023 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[AndyJWest]

What would you consider a 'satisfactory degree'? And how could modelling the essentially random effects of ricochets and tumbling be usefully achieved other than simply applying a randomising factor to damage? The developers clearly can't apply the computationally-intensive numeric methodology used for analytical ballistic damage modelling to an entire aircraft in real time, so they have to use approximations. Maybe the way they do it could be improved, but we have to be realistic about what can be achieved.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

3 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Maybe the way they do it could be improved, but we have to be realistic about what can be achieved.

It's completely understandable that to model real-world ballistic effects in the game would be extremely difficult to achieve, almost certainly impossible in this engine. My main concern is the game appears to have little, if any ballistic calculations whatsoever.

[AndyJWest]

1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

It's completely understandable that to model real-world ballistic effects in the game would be extremely difficult to achieve, almost certainly impossible in this engine. My main concern is the game appears to have little, if any ballistic calculations whatsoever.

 

How does the lack of ballistic calculation show itself? 

[=RS=EnvyC]

Citation needed.

Specifically video, stat damage log and schematic of the bomber in question showing armour values and mathematically showing why it shouldn't be possible.

More to the point you already have your answer here

[6./ZG26_Custard]

33 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

How does the lack of ballistic calculation show itself? 

I have no idea but ballistics don't seem to have any discernible effects in the game and bullets appear to travel in a straight line to target or the Pilot despite what they pass through.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

25 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

More to the point you already have your answer here

I'm not really sure why you're posting something from a thread about pilot kills when this is about ballistics but thanks anyway.

[=RS=EnvyC]

24 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I'm not really sure why you're posting something from a thread about pilot kills when this is about ballistics but thanks anyway.

Because you're predictable, we all know what your angle is. You have literally no other reason to ask this question especially after being told to stop in the other thread.

So cite your complaint with evidence.

Edit: Also literally in your second sentence;
"Bombers are very large aircraft with lots in the way of a pilot"
 

Edited March 10, 2023 by =RS=EnvyC

[354thFG_Rails]

39 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I have no idea but ballistics don't seem to have any discernible effects in the game and bullets appear to travel in a straight line to target or the Pilot despite what they pass through.

Do you have proof of this?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

7 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

Because you're predictable, we all know what your angle is. You have literally no other reason to ask this question especially after being told to stop in the other thread

If you don't like what I'm saying use the ignore function. 

[6./ZG26_Loke]

27 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

You have literally no other reason to ask this question. 

He has absolut every reason to ask this question. 

[=RS=EnvyC]

17 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

He has absolut every reason to ask this question. 

Until he can show why it may not be the case, he doesn't, the question is too vague.

 

Especially since the question was asked and answered



So again, please show what you think is wrong

Edited March 10, 2023 by =RS=EnvyC

[6./ZG26_Custard]

1 minute ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

Then he should show it, rather than posit an opinion as fact.

I never said it was "facts" I'm asking a question, I'm sorry if you don't like that. As I said put me on ignore and you won't have to see what I type ever again. 

So that I don't upset anymore forum users by asking a question, I'll be clear. I'm asking the developers if ballistics effects are modelled in a relatively realistic way? 

[=RS=EnvyC]

12 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I never said it was "facts" I'm asking a question, I'm sorry if you don't like that. As I said put me on ignore and you won't have to see what I type ever again. 

So that I don't upset anymore forum users by asking a question, I'll be clear. I'm asking the developers if ballistics effects are modelled in a relatively realistic way? 

Your question has been answered

If you think they're unrealistic, please provide evidence as to why. Your question is incredibly vague.

Edited March 10, 2023 by =RS=EnvyC

[6./ZG26_Custard]

15 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

Until he can show it, he doesn't.

Well, according to you I have no right to ask questions? I'm asking if "ballistic" effect are modelled is a realistic way and I'm not asking you I'm asking the developers. Why do you keep engaging with me, just put me on ignore.

[=RS=EnvyC]

Just now, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Well, according to you I have no right to ask questions? I'm asking if "ballistic" effect are modelled is a realistic way and I'm not asking you I'm asking the developers. Why do you keep engaging with me, just put me on ignore.

Your question was asked and answerd



If you think thats incorrect, please show why.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Just now, =RS=EnvyC said:

Your question was asked and answerd

I have no idea what the calculations for ballistics are in the code and if they are coded in such a way that reflects some sort of realistic scenarios. Armour and ammo are not the same as ballistics

[=RS=EnvyC]

So why do you think they're not done in a realistic manner.

 

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Just now, =RS=EnvyC said:

So why do you think they're not done in a realistic manner

Rounds passing through objects ricochet, deviate, tumble and shatter Particularly if they are passing through multiple objects. Whilst I understand that realistic ballistics would be almost impossible to model in the current engine I want to know if there any variables modelled in in that can at least take in consideration those factors.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

It seems to me the thing that is causing the frustration is the new pilot health settings.

 

I'd like to see that feature set back to what it was, or perhaps some compromise. 

 

To be clear, I'm talking about the 1 to the head, 2 to the torso setting implemented recently

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[=RS=EnvyC]

2 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Rounds passing through objects ricochet, deviate, tumble and shatter Particularly if they are passing through multiple objects. Whilst I understand that realistic ballistics would be almost impossible to model in the current engine I want to know if there any variables modelled in in that can at least take in consideration those factors.

But why do you think it isn't realistic.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Just now, =RS=EnvyC said:

But why do you think it isn't realistic.

Do you think ballistics effects are modelled sufficiently in game because it doesn't look like they are? That is why I'm asking the question.

[=RS=EnvyC]

1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Do you think ballistics effects are modelled sufficiently in game because it doesn't look like they are? That is why I'm asking the question.

It doesn't matter what I think, I want to know why you think its incorrect and then I want you to show it.

Edited March 10, 2023 by =RS=EnvyC

[6./ZG26_Custard]

2 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

I want you to show it.

I don't have access to the source code so I can't show it.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

It doesn't matter what I think, I want to know why you think its incorrect and then I want you to show it.

You've made that quite clear already.  Take a rest bro

[6./ZG26_Custard]

That is why I am asking the developers the question.

[=RS=EnvyC]

So you don't actually have a reason to think  its incorrect.

1 minute ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

You've made that quite clear already.  Take a rest bro

Id rather find out why this needed another thread after the question was asked and answered

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

29 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Rounds passing through objects ricochet, deviate, tumble and shatter Particularly if they are passing through multiple objects. Whilst I understand that realistic ballistics would be almost impossible to model in the current engine I want to know if there any variables modelled in in that can at least take in consideration those factors.

Absolutely correct in real life.  Can't answer for the devs regarding what is modelled in the game, but I seriously doubt the game accounts for all the affected bullet trajectories.  Seems to me the easy fix, would be adjusting the pilot health  (1 to the head 2 to the torso) to something more like 2 to the head, 3 to the torso.  Don't know if they can program fractional numbers (ie..1.5 to the head) or not but if so that's another possibility.

 

Cheers!

Edited March 10, 2023 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[Wardog5711]

 

I've already had three complaints about this thread and it is not even 0730 at my location.

If there is a legitimate question about the ballistics modeling, PM me with it and I will pass it onto the DEV team. 

But opening another thread about it is neither needed or appreciated.

 

As for everyone else. 

Custard and I are dealing with this via PM's. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Wardog5711