Please record your flights so you can provide the tracks needed for the devs to address the 'magic bullet' issue

[Enceladus828]

I ask this because before Autumn 2021 or a bit earlier, none of the above happened in the game. 

 

With 'magic bullets' causing the pilot and most if not all of the crew to be seriously injured or killed easily, I would say there is an issue and not because a years old ‘crew health cheat’ -- requiring four point-blank 7.62 bullets in the torso or two in the head to be killed -- was removed in Update 5.001. It seems to me that only a small handful of pilots, and their crews, in the entire war would be able to bail out of their airplanes after being shot down if they were injured or killed as often as they are right now in the game.

 

Ineffective gunners have been talked about enough so I'll leave it be.

 

Even though the bug which caused a simple belly landing in a field to be fatal has been fixed, the issue with a low energy collision with an object being fatal is still in the game. See here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/80591-collisions-with-ground-objects-is-still-too-sensitive/

 

 

With this, the survivability of a pilot and crew after colliding with an object at low speed in this game has pretty much degressed into IL-2 1946 (and possibly CFS3) levels of survivability.

 

These issues have made me not play IL-2 GBs as much and I just want to know if any of these issues have been addressed by the devs?

 

Thank you

 

Edit: As per Wardog's response by the devs, please record your flights, let alone when you're dogfighting or intercepting, so if the magic bullet issue comes up you can provide the necessary tracks for the devs to fix this issue, as well as for ineffective gunners and minor collisions being fatal for the pilot and crew.

 

Thank you

Edited March 9, 2023 by Enceladus

[SCG_motoadve]

Yes all the same or worse, magic bullets, fragile planes, instant pilot kills, lots of guys have left IL2, has become boring and arcade, which is a real shame, used to be much better 2 years ago.

[FuriousMeow]

Aside from some ww2 aircraft gunners could be better and the HE round fragments maybe being too effective causing some PKs they shouldn't, its pretty good. Actually aiming at the cockpit in ww1 and ww2 planes results in pilots actually dying and not shrugging it off like they're in full battle rattle IBA and ACH.

Edited February 27, 2023 by FuriousMeow

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The insta pk are now too common imho. They should occur but frequency is to high. If sim doesn't have other factors which would make aim harder than end result is deviated from the average. To make it normal without those factors devs should change probability to represent normal distribution. Now is significantly towards pk . From personal experience if my plane is hit it ends in pk. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The one thing that really bothers me is when AI flown 109s will attack you head on, and fire between 1km and .75km, and snipe you on the first shot with frustrating regularity.

It's amazing, they are firing at my smallest target cross section, and I'm sitting behind 2 tons of engine and an armored windscreen, and "plink!", instant black screen.

 

[Trooper117]

I don't think they are ever going to sort it... not with this version of GB anyway.

[Skycat1969]

It seems to affect some planes much more than others. I recently finished a Kuban Bf109 career and transitioned to a Normandy FW190A career, and between the two I've survived plenty of bomber intercepts. However, I'm currently playing the Pitomnik campaign by Juri_JS and I can't even look at a Pe-2 without getting PK'd. 

 

Also, the AI PK'ing you in a head-on skid is real and frustrating.

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

Yep, Still the same. Feel that 8-9 times/10 on MP, If I'm shot down its due to a PK. The amount of times where I'll just be flying along and the Screen goes instantly black without so much as hearing a bullet hit the plane feels way too high now. I'm not a historian, or know how common that was and maybe I just got used to the system pre-Pilot sniper patch but it has def. dropped love of the sim down a couple of notches in my book. Just feels way too common now.

[JG7_X-Man]

I really think the issue here is ammo dispersement like plenty of others have mentioned. Time to move on to a new engine.

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I don't think they are ever going to sort it... not with this version of GB anyway.

It did work fine for almost 10 years with pilot health cheat, but forum was boring so i guess they decided to get rid of it in that update so ppl can complain how pilots are sudenly geting pk easyer... it wored perfectly ?

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I haven't touched GB in a month because the occurrence of instant pilot kills both on and offline make the game unplayable. 

 

In my last career missions, all of my wingmen left me despite giving them orders and then I get pounced by ~8 enemies and evaded and even downed 1 or 2, until one finally connects and I am insta-killed. Scenarios like this make the (career) game unplayable. Only it is the same thing, even though I have many times BENEFITTED from the instant pilot kills on first burst.

[danielprates]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:54 AM, Trooper117 said:

I don't think they are ever going to sort it... not with this version of GB anyway.

 

Doesnt it feel like they sort of gave up on this game and are already focusing on a different game?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:06 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes all the same or worse, magic bullets, fragile planes, instant pilot kills, lots of guys have left IL2, has become boring and arcade, which is a real shame, used to be much better 2 years ago.

I couldn't agree more.

 

On 2/27/2023 at 7:48 AM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

The insta pk are now too common imho. They should occur but frequency is to high.

I think by and large it's due to the changes in the penetration values of ammunition which were updated but with no serious look and damage modelling or ballistics effects. The laser beam deaths are laughable at this point. Added to this is the dismally awful AI. 

All this is constantly dismissed by the usual suspects but I have personally seen a massive decline in numbers flying online GMT times. I hadn't flown for months but last Friday I did and was rather shocked at the further drop in player numbers.

 

[SCG_motoadve]

49 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

All this is constantly dismissed by the usual suspects

Agreed they wanted their War Thunder feel in IL2, they got it now, they can have it, I don't care anymore,  I don't think developers will fix it honestly, which is sad.

 

I just hope developers don't translate this kind of DM and FM to the new series, or listen to this people again.

Glad to have DCS and CLOD.

[SCG_motoadve]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:01 PM, danielprates said:

 

Doesnt it feel like they sort of gave up on this game and are already focusing on a different game?

Absolutely, they will still deliver what is left, a few mods for 1 or 2 planes, the IAR and a new campaign, apart from that I don't expect any changes.

[69th_Panp]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:26 AM, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I couldn't agree more.

 

I think by and large it's due to the changes in the penetration values of ammunition which were updated but with no serious look and damage modelling or ballistics effects. The laser beam deaths are laughable at this point. Added to this is the dismally awful AI. 

All this is constantly dismissed by the usual suspects but I have personally seen a massive decline in numbers flying online GMT times. I hadn't flown for months but last Friday I did and was rather shocked at the further drop in player numbers.

 

I agree with you! online play has been greatly affected and is being destroyed by the instant PK  kills now.

I recently did a cycle on a online server and was PK 65 % of all the fights I was in, which is crazy high pk rate from before the last update! 

It needs fixed ! otherwise this sim will go down the tubes faster than smoke in a strong wind.

 

1 example I can think of was a friend in a A20 (pilot) being PK from dead astern by 4 rounds and both gunners living.  

Happens way too often and kills the emersion. 

Might as well fly warthunder in that case, least there you can have lower expectations of DM and ballistic. 

[SCG_motoadve]

2 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

I agree with you! online play has been greatly affected and is being destroyed by the instant PK  kills now.

I recently did a cycle on a online server and was PK 65 % of all the fights I was in, which is crazy high pk rate from before the last update! 

It needs fixed ! otherwise this sim will go down the tubes faster than smoke in a strong wind.

 

1 example I can think of was a friend in a A20 (pilot) being PK from dead astern by 4 rounds and both gunners living.  

Happens way too often and kills the emersion. 

Might as well fly warthunder in that case, least there you can have lower expectations of DM and ballistic. 

It ruined IL2, now this is the result, lots of people leaving IL2.

[-332FG-SGTSAUSAGE138]

I don't think the pilot kills thing is as bad as all that. Maybe if you fly mostly German planes you get pk'd more now than before but I don't think this is wrong. I think maybe HE shell fragments might be too deadly to pilots now but pilots surviving hits from anti-materiel weapons should be the exception and not the rule. I imagine pilot deaths were a common thing in WW2. I get Pk'd now and then but the game feels better overall in terms of weapon effects now than maybe 6-7 months ago. I'm not saying that ridiculous pk's don't happen but I don't think its terrible. I fly more German now than I care to because the server is usually imbalanced in favor of allies but I prefer US planes. The game seems much more balanced now as far as damage. If they give the FM's some love I think the game will be sitting in a very nice place for them to move on to the next sim/engine.

 

Also flyable B-25 or B-26 is needed!

Edited March 7, 2023 by -332FG-SGTSAUSAGE138

[Enceladus828]

29 minutes ago, -332FG-SGTSAUSAGE138 said:

Maybe if you fly mostly German planes you get pk'd more now than before but I don't think this is wrong.

Not necessarily, I've been killed in my Hurricane BoM career by the gunner of an He-111 at no closer than 0.50, and in my Spitfire Mk.XIV BoN career I was killed by a single MG bullet by a Bf-109G-6 Late.

[ACG_Cass]

For the love of everything that is holy can people please post their tracks or at the very least, a recording showing the hit in slow motion.

 

Testing isn't showing any grevious issues here other than HE rounds perhaps being too lethal to pilots at longer ranges.

 

Nothing will be changed until we can see what is going on.

[6./ZG26_Loke]

2 hours ago, ACG_Cass said:

For the love of everything that is holy can people please post their tracks or at the very least, a recording showing the hit in slow motion.

 

Testing isn't showing any grevious issues here other than HE rounds perhaps being too lethal to pilots at longer ranges.

 

Nothing will be changed until we can see what is going on.

Oh we have posted tracks many times in the past, but only to receive the most ridiculous remarks that we get it all wrong and it's due to lag and so on.
By the way, so often when you experience these ridiculously bizarre situations, you probably don't have time to click "record". At least I rarely record dogfights.

 

And even though people have posted tracks, nothing is changed, the devs don't even reply with a comment or just a thank you regarding the track. 

 

The "funny" thing about all this. Now it's not only the bomber pilots who complain, but also fighter pilots who is sick of these instand PK which destroy the realism and joy of dogfighting. 

[-332FG-SGTSAUSAGE138]

Yes I think its mostly HE causing this, like HE 13mm. Attacking bombers hasn't been an issue like it used to be as long as I don't park behind one, and this I am happy with. Before the ai gunners would kill you while you were maneuvering to defend against them or flying 150+ mph faster than them and they would even kill you while the plane was spiraling after losing a wing which was just stupid. The ai gunners are much more reasonable now. I have had friends get one shot pk'd by late war 109's several times but again I think this is probably 13mm HE which still probably needs work as far as frag pk or something to that effect. Another phenomenon that leads me to think this is the case is the notably higher effectiveness of the 410's AI gunner (13mm). They are the most dangerous and will cause significant damage if they don't outright kill you, however they don't hit more than any other planes gunners unless I approach in a straight line.

 

[6./ZG26_Custard]

The laser beam instat-kills started happening in earnest right after the ammunition penetration values were changed. This has became much more noticeable particularly among our fighter friends as time goes by.

More and more voices are echoing what we have been saying for months. I strongly resisted the penetration value changes both on the testers forum and publicly. For that, I have been insulted, ridiculed, accused of spreading disinformation and had calls from several charming individuals to have me removed as a tester. Despite this, I still belief that without an overhaul of damage modelling and ballistics, the Devs should not have implemented changes to penetration values. What is currently happening is laughable, particularly when flying a 24,000 lbs hunk of metal with systems, armour, bodies, spars etc that are all in the way of that magic shot that WT would be proud of. Added to this is the absolutely dire gunner AI.

One problem with posting tracks in an online environment is that the Devs have stated many times there are many variables that can affect what is happening and testing is best done offline. If I'm being honest I think I'm pass the point of no return at this point.  While the Devs wait for online tracks, I have notice a very significant decline in online players. I'm not sure what the state of SP is as of now but GB is most certainty losing online players. My online flight hours are dwindling with each passing week and the game certainty doesn't seem to hold the same appeal, not just for me but  for other folk too.

I have loved this series for years but GB now seems to have be dumbed down, either by design or accident to appeal to esports enthusiasts who want 30 kills in an hour.

If I didn't care so much about this game, and I say game because that is what it has now become I would have buggered off ages ago. 

 

I sincerely hope that the Devs take a second look at what is happening but I really can't see any sign of that now they have their eyes set on the "new project" whatever the hell that will be.

 

Edit - I'll keep everything crossed.

       

Edited March 7, 2023 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

The laser beam instat-kills started happening in earnest right after the ammunition penetration values were changed. This has became much more noticeable particularly among our fighter friends as time goes by.

More and more voices are echoing what we have been saying for months. I strongly resisted the penetration value changes both on the testers forum and publicly. For that, I have been insulted, ridiculed, accused of spreading disinformation and had calls from several charming individuals to have me removed as a tester. Despite this, I still belief that without an overhaul of damage modelling and ballistics, the Devs should not have implemented changes to penetration values. What is currently happening is laughable, particularly when flying a 24,000 lbs hunk of metal with systems, armour, bodies, spars etc that are all in the way of that magic shot that WT would be proud of. Added to this is the absolutely dire gunner AI.

One problem with posting tracks in an online environment is that the Devs have stated many times there are many variables that can affect what is happening and testing is best done offline. If I'm being honest I think I'm pass the point of no return at this point.  While the Devs wait for online tracks, I have notice a very significant decline in online players. I'm not sure what the state of SP is as of now but GB is most certainty losing online players. My online flight hours are dwindling with each passing week and the game certainty doesn't seem to hold the same appeal, not just for me but  for other folk too.

I have loved this series for years but GB now seems to have be dumbed down, either by design or accident to appeal to esports enthusiasts who want 30 kills in an hour.

If I didn't care so much about this game, and I say game because that is what it has now become I would have buggered off ages ago. 

 

I sincerely hope that the Devs take a second look at what is happening but I really can't see any sign of that now they have their eyes set on the "new project" whatever the hell that will be.

 

Edit - I'll keep everything crossed.

       

 

 

I don't have hope they will fix IL2, but hope the next series don't have the same DM and FM we have currently in IL2.

Lots of IL2 loyal customers of many years have left.

 

[354thFG_Rails]

Stats show there has been no significant change to pilots being killed. I think this is mostly coming down to guys still flying the old way and expecting AP to not really do anything. In my opinion the damage model got better than what it was before. Pilot vulnerabilities are better than before and more realistic. And it seems the servers are still pretty popular. I’m not sure where all this negativity is stemming from. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

I don't mind getting killed by fifties, what pisses me off is when the visuals don't match, some guy sitting back there throwing a red stream at you as you watch it pass so far away from you, you don't even bother taking an evasive, and than the kick to external.  That's the real problem, too often two different things going on on each flyers PC.

[357th_KW]

13 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

I don't mind getting killed by fifties, what pisses me off is when the visuals don't match, some guy sitting back there throwing a red stream at you as you watch it pass so far away from you, you don't even bother taking an evasive, and than the kick to external.  That's the real problem, too often two different things going on on each flyers PC.

Are you seeing this happen a lot in MP?  Which server?  Where are you connecting from from? What kind of internet connection are you using?  My experience is that if you have a good connection and your game is running smoothly, it’s really apparent when someone can get their nose on you and when they can’t, and I can aim very precisely (at least when the target holds still).  
 

Where I start experiencing what you’re talking about, is when I’m playing on a server that I have a poor connection to (I’m US west coast, and so Eastern European stuff is generally not real good for me), or when the game is running poorly due to too many objects etc.

[354thFG_Rails]

37 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

I don't mind getting killed by fifties, what pisses me off is when the visuals don't match, some guy sitting back there throwing a red stream at you as you watch it pass so far away from you, you don't even bother taking an evasive, and than the kick to external.  That's the real problem, too often two different things going on on each flyers PC.

Also have to remember that every 4th or 5th round is a tracer in the game files I believe. So even though it might look like it’s shorter they could be hitting briefly. I would also wonder if the connection to the server might be a reason for the visual issue. I know there is an audio issue to when so many rounds start hitting the aircraft the game stops playing the audio hits. This could be a source of frustration as well. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by 86th_Rails

[SCG_motoadve]

Insta pilot kills , magic bullets also happen in Single player.

Fly a quick mission against 190s using a P51 and count how many of your 6 or 7 kills are pilot kills, at least 5 or 6.

[354thFG_Rails]

4 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Insta pilot kills , magic bullets also happen in Single player.

Fly a quick mission against 190s using a P51 and count how many of your 6 or 7 kills are pilot kills, at least 5 or 6.

And what should it be?

[SCG_motoadve]

3 minutes ago, 86th_Rails said:

And what should it be?

Whatever makes you happy, to lots of players just feels arcade to kill planes and pilots with one bullet.

If you like it good for you, I think this wont get changed in IL2 at this stage, so I would not worry about if I were you.

In my case I found much more realistic WWII options which I am really enjoying very much.

[354thFG_Rails]

18 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Whatever makes you happy, to lots of players just feels arcade to kill planes and pilots with one bullet.

If you like it good for you, I think this wont get changed in IL2 at this stage, so I would not worry about if I were you.

In my case I found much more realistic WWII options which I am really enjoying very much.

You don’t know it’s one bullet. And even if it is you think your pilot should survive multiple 50 cal rounds? Or 20mm canon rounds? It just seems silly that you won’t give your opinion as to what it should be?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I don't know....  While I agree with some points that the 'sim' isn't 100% on-point, and besides AI gunners sometimes pulling near-impossible trick shots, I can't recall any time getting pk'd that I couldn't see how I made a mistake in my flying - especially on the defensive flying side.  I guess among all the 'experts' that say "It's wrong because I say so.", I must be the ----iest pilot in the whole community because I don't see alot of what is being complained about in my own experiences.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by LukeFF
Language

[354thFG_Rails]

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

14 minutes ago, 86th_Rails said:

 

@ me?   Lol, I guess I'll have to get better at making moves that get me PK'd by being an easy short-burst target and being unable to accept that my tactics don't work.

I'll get on that right away.

 

Edit:

Sorry, 86th Rails, in hindsight I kneejerked at you.     I'm going to leave the gist of the post up though.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

[Denum]

Interesting the push back we got when a single 13mm HE round was crippling planes in an completely unrealistic manner but getting PKd by a heavy machine gun in a realistic fashion after taking a burst to cockpit is unacceptable?

 

Interesting indeed.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Denum

[6./ZG26_Custard]

7 hours ago, Denum said:

after taking a burst to cockpit is unacceptable?

 

Interesting indeed.... 

The problem is it's not a burst to the cockpit. It is the magic bullet that travels from dead six, traveling along a 24,000 pound aircraft and going through systems, cargo,several section of armour plate, bodies and "magically" hitting the pilot. There seem to me no discernable ballistic effect in play whatsoever, very realistic...and.......

Interesting indeed.... 

 

The penetration values should not have been increased until DM, ballistics and many other unrealistic parameters were sorted. However, it is what it is and I suppose moving forward the esporters can brag about their 35 air kills in an hour as less and less players appear online 

[Denum]

 

 

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

The penetration values should not have been increased until DM, ballistics and many other unrealistic parameters were sorted.

 

Thus preserving the HE meta and ensuring that axis aircraft continue to always have the advantage. 

 

Not surprised. 

 

 

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

The problem is it's not a burst to the cockpit. It is the magic bullet that travels from dead six, traveling along a 24,000 pound aircraft and going through systems, cargo,several section of armour plate, bodies and "magically" hitting the pilot. There seem to me no discernable ballistic effect in play

 

Except for the fact it only really needs to be one round. How many bullets into the aircraft is enough? I haven't been PKd in a while but I don't fly in a straight line. It doesn't feel excessive at all. 

 

 

I'd be more concerned with this if the machine guns caused some type of aerodynamic penalty. But they are still pretty limited. Unfortunately people fought that too. 

 

So it is what it is. 

 

 

 

 

[6./ZG26_Custard]

35 minutes ago, Denum said:

So it is what it is.

It is indeed, we can just continue to watch online player numbers drop ??

[[CPT]Crunch]

So in conclusion we do need .50 equipped Italian fighters after all.