VR clod is a myth change my mind

[Snowdon]

as above so below

[Thundercracker]

Having experienced it, I know it's real. As for a general release date I've heard stories but much like religion it's mostly based on faith. 

 

 

It comes when it comes brother. 

[Dagwoodyt]

The "special surprise" awaits your application.

[Snowdon]

14 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The "special surprise" awaits your application.

Not very interested in Tobruk ( and cash is tight) otherwise I'd be there, I cant wait to fly the battle of Britain in VR. 

 I've dreamed of it since I played il2 birds of prey on the 360 many moons ago (lol) and was about when VR for clod was first talked about, I'm itching to fly Hurricanes and forget I'm sitting at my desk. we just need a sign please something more concrete than "2 weeks" lol

 

Anywho much love, I'm sure your all sick of us moaning      

[Jack_Daniels1983]

I don't know if myth is the right word. How you called software for sale with features in the description which not exists?

Edited February 27, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

Myths have doable SEOW campaigns also...

 

All kinds of unicorns could arise ^^

Edited February 28, 2023 by 102nd-YU-cmirko

[FTC_Karaya]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:36 PM, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

features in the description which not exists?

 

These would be...?

I've just read the Steam store pages for both Blitz and Tobruk and couldn't find any.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Karaya

[Jack_Daniels1983]

1 hour ago, Karaya said:

 

These would be...?

I've just read the Steam store pages for both Blitz and Tobruk and couldn't find any.

 

To me it looked like I would get near VR (albeit only as a beta) and 4k textures if I buy the game + DLC. And I'm not the only one who interpreted it that way (see below). In the end it turns out that you might be lucky enough to get the chance (or not) to participate in the beta.

 

It's not about what is described as exactly, but what the buyer expected or how they (and me) read the offer.

 

Of course you can now say bad expectation management, but no one asks for Buzz's head or anything. The only thing we ask for is proper communication, since we are already financing the fun for ATAG and the few other beta participants with our Steam purchases (which we cannot return because we believe or believed in the project).

 

1 hour ago, I./JG3_Spook109 said:

I own both titles and bought Tobruk on the promise that VR was coming with a Summer 2022 ETA. Lord knows I can deal with delays (I fly DCS) but all I ask is for some clear communication from the dev. What do they have social media for if not to communicate with their customer base?

 

I contacted Buzzsaw several times, via several different methods, requesting beta access and received no response. When I've asked about VR on Facebook, I've been shouted down and told I'm "entitled".

 

Apparently, the $100+ I paid wasn't a "purchase", it was a donation - given freely and without expectations.

 

I'll spend my time in BoX, BMS, and DCS. If someone asks me about Cliffs, I'll tell them it has been a disappointment and I'd recommend they look elsewhere for their VR combat sim'ing. ☹️

 

 

PS: After all, we keep the forum alive also with such discussions. Even if it's not the prettiest Theme, as long we are nice.

 

Unfortunately, we haven't heard much from TF lately to have better Themes

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, Karaya said:

 

These would be...?

I've just read the Steam store pages for both Blitz and Tobruk and couldn't find any.

To me the credibility issue is that TFS is representing that everyone who applies for entry into the private beta fraternity under a promise of eventual admission will be accomodated. How is that attestation supportable if there are individuals who bought the DLC months ago to qualify for participation but have yet to receive a response? If the private beta is near completion why would such a promise make sense?

[FTC_Karaya]

Fair enough, I can understand that people who applied and never got a response are frustrated. Generally the communication with the community could be improved by a lot. However, I never understood the beta invitation in a way that everybody who applied would automatically get admission. More of a "first come, first serve, maybe more later" basis.

 

What I personally find harder to comprehend is that we at times got multiple update posts a week as well as recurring server events which were then followed up by months of silence and non-interaction. I think consistency is absolutely crucial in keeping people interested and engaged. Make a short dev post every few weeks and then stick to the schedule. Organize a community fly-out once a month and keep it up. Do whatever you can to preserve what little playerbase there is left.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Karaya

[Dagwoodyt]

10 minutes ago, Karaya said:

Fair enough, I can understand that people who applied and never got a response are frustrated. Generally the communication with the community could be improved by a lot. However, I never understood the beta invitation in a way that everybody who applied would automatically get admission. More of a "first come, first serve, maybe more later" basis.

 

What I personally find harder to comprehend is that we at times got multiple update posts a week as well as recurring server events which were then followed up by months of silence and non-interaction. I think consistency is absolutely crucial in keeping people interested and engaged. Make a short dev post every few weeks and then stick to the schedule. Organize a community fly-out once a month and keep it up. Do whatever you can to preserve what little playerbase there is left.

The crux of the matter is that private beta applications made by some users apparently were not acknowledged and at the users' sole expense. Recently, additional commitment has been made without any assurance of resources adequate to service the commitment. Why propose to accept additional private beta applicants for whom there might not be a legitimate need and now add enticement of a private beta exclusive "special surprise"?

[Mysticpuma]

9 hours ago, Karaya said:

Generally the communication with the community could be improved by a lot.

 

What I personally find harder to comprehend is that we at times got multiple update posts a week as well as recurring server events which were then followed up by months of silence and non-interaction. I think consistency is absolutely crucial in keeping people interested and engaged. Make a short dev post every few weeks and then stick to the schedule. Organize a community fly-out once a month and keep it up. Do whatever you can to preserve what little playerbase there is left.

Who knew that marketing and PR would be a worthwhile endeavour? 

What is this ridiculous suggestion you make! 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Snowdon]

Guys what do you thing the likely hood is that we see an open beta, Maybe even a launch in the next 6 months? 

 Or do you thing clod is DOA?

[Jack_Daniels1983]

1 minute ago, Snowdon said:

Guys what do you thing the likely hood is that we see an open beta, Maybe even a launch in the next 6 months? 

 Or do you thing clod is DOA?

 

At the moment it is Schrödinger like the cat

It looks like they don't even care the community

 

Announcing the next Event but now words regarding Update, Beta....

 

And the only comments in the last post was, where is VR ?

 

https://twitter.com/TeamFusionSim/status/1630666457330622480?s=20

[Snowdon]

Sad

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, Snowdon said:

Guys what do you thing the likely hood is that we see an open beta, Maybe even a launch in the next 6 months? 

 Or do you thing clod is DOA?

Are you thinking that any beta, private or "public", would be made available to those who have not bought the DLC and registered for ATAG?

[Mysticpuma]

Just now, Snowdon said:

Guys what do you thing the likely hood is that we see an open beta, Maybe even a launch in the next 6 months? 

 Or do you thing clod is DOA?

I don't see it happening in 6 months, I think we are all heading on the rollercoaster ride towards Christmas 2023 which we had 'hoped' for being Christmas 2022.

Let's take into account Buzzsaw's last main update about the current state of play:

 

"There has been a lot of speculation regarding the status of Team Fusion, the CLIFFS OF DOVER engine, and whether the recent changes in ownership and management at 1C might affect our project.

 

To clarify:

 

As of 2023, Team Fusion Simulations continues to exist, our contract with 1C/Tencent continues to be current, we continue to work on the development of the CLIFFS OF DOVER game engine, and we intend to complete both the Visual Update and our next module.  (TF 6.0)

 

We will certainly update the community when anything relevant to the above occurs.

 

Thanks to everyone for their patience."

 

Given that, we must deduce that in 2-months nothing relevant has happened.

 

2-years-ago the graphics update, VR and Truesky were expected by the summer, this has obviously failed completely:

 

a small update followed:

 

 

Then a final one:

 

 

And that was it. No May announcement (apparently curtailed by 1C refusing to let them announce the v6 module which seems to be the current state of play but without any news, just a guess)

 

 

@Snowdon in regard to "Maybe even a launch in the next 6 months? ", the development pace of CloD has been so poorly communicated it is impossible to even know where the Team are and even if there are any team members still left to work on development.

Buzzsaw is heavily invested in the software, I think there are a couple of coders, but in terms of models, maps and any assets, these must surely have been completed months ago for v6 (if and when it is ever released).

 

Let's look at the true situation.

 

The player base is barely existent now. Years (literally) of delays in producing anything said in the April 22nd 2021 update have hurt the existing player base, especially online. There are only so many times you can resell the current state of CloD with no new features before people start seeing through the "Emperor's New Clothes".

 

"Hope, expect, aim, intend, would like", etc, etc these just don't cut it any more. Surely by now someone on the team can look at the current state of progress and say "barring any major setbacks we will look at releasing in the first week of August, but if that isn't possible we will be clear and open with the community about the reason for the delays".

 

That is the bare minimum a company who have taken finances from players on the promise of the updates above should at least be looking to provide. The current status is to blame anyone on the official forums for daring to ask "what is actually going on with this!?" as this takes much needed development time away from someone spending 20 minutes updating the community once every month.....I mean, imagine daring to ask for 12 updates in a year.....after years of delays have gone by with nothing of note released apart from more screenshots of software that is alleged to exist.

 

Ultimately, we are nowhere further forward in knowledge than we were in April 2021 as to knowing when this mythical update will ever see the light of day. The consequence of this though is who will invest in a pre-order for module v6 if the communication of a free update has been so tragic and so delayed? I ask simply because getting new players to invest in the next module based on "hope, expect, aim, intend, would like", just won't cut it after this amount of time, it will even be a struggle to get owners of the current software to invest with the disdain shown to the community by the ongoing empty (invisible would be more factual?) words of the team.

 

The wait continues, but sadly it feels more like morbid curiosity than excitement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

9 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

it feels more like morbid curiosity than excitement.

 

Those are exactly the right words for the situation.

And as I said, I don't understand why TF act like this. They still do events, but nobody can tell me that it's just as much fun with ~34 as when the server is full (which I would really like to experience/participate in, but I'm afraid it will remain a dream if in 1-2 (and that's a big one if) years, then maybe under certain circumstances if nothing comes between them, so maybe a final product sees the world. How far along is the competition DCS, IL2 etc. then. Then there are no more players again. And I guess I will also just visit to the what happen to this myth)

[OBT-Eazy]

16 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

 

Those are exactly the right words for the situation.

And as I said, I don't understand why TF act like this. They still do events, but nobody can tell me that it's just as much fun with ~34 as when the server is full (which I would really like to experience/participate in, but I'm afraid it will remain a dream if in 1-2 (and that's a big one if) years, then maybe under certain circumstances if nothing comes between them, so maybe a final product sees the world. How far along is the competition DCS, IL2 etc. then. Then there are no more players again. And I guess I will also just visit to the what happen to this myth)

To be clear, the last event was not organised by TFS but by OBT~Polak which is not related to TFS neither near nor far.  Perhaps you missed this information because you are with your head in the handlebars watching your wheel spin.
By the way, next event occurs sunday evening (Tobruk).

[Jack_Daniels1983]

53 minutes ago, OBT-Eazy said:

To be clear, the last event was not organised by TFS but by OBT~Polak which is not related to TFS neither near nor far.  Perhaps you missed this information because you are with your head in the handlebars watching your wheel spin.
By the way, next event occurs sunday evening (Tobruk).

Oh no, how could that happen to me (here's a little hint).

Guess this has nothing to do where my head is or not.

 

But organised by TFS or not, they share it, the say "hey look we are still alive" so its fair to ask for more communication then events (no matter how organized them).

 

Yea, see the "next event", maybe I joint, 35 Players are better then 34 right ?. Such a small player base in the last event, every pilot counts.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Dagwoodyt]

I doubt there is any daylight between TFS and its' "partners" in terms of announcement delays. It is convenient to imply that TFS is itching to make substantial announcements but for its' objecting partners. Another possibility though is that all relevant parties have accepted that it is imperative to string out the "private" beta in order to make a few more DLC sales and thus essential to limit beta access to those who have bought DW-T. Tongue-in-cheek pre-announcements might also produce mild, transient sales spikes and need repetition after decent intervals.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Jack_Daniels1983]

37 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I doubt there is any daylight between TFS and its' "partners" in terms of announcement delays. It is convenient to imply that TFS is itching to make substantial announcements but for its' objecting partners. Another possibility though is that all relevant parties have accepted that it is imperative to string out the "private" beta in order to make a few more DLC sales and thus essential to limit beta access to those who have bought DW-T. Tongue-in-cheek pre-announcements might also produce mild, transient sales spikes and need repetition after decent intervals.

Not all of the DW-T Buyers had received Beta Access. This is a part of the Problem

[Dagwoodyt]

16 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Not all of the DW-T Buyers had received Beta Access. This is a part of the Problem

That "Problem" is important to you, but what's important from a sales standpoint is to find the next DLC buyer.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

26 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

That "Problem" is important to you, but what's important from a sales standpoint is to find the next DLC buyer.

It is important for my decision (and probably others) whether they give TFS money again or not for a "next" DLC.

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Not all of the DW-T Buyers had received Beta Access. This is a part of the Problem

Where did or does it say "if you buy DW-T you will get access to the VR beta"? 

Not being pedantic, is this what it says? I haven't seen the post/text so have no knowledge of it. 

[FTC_Karaya]

9 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Where did or does it say "if you buy DW-T you will get access to the VR beta"? 

 

Nowhere.

All that was ever said was that if you:

- own Blitz & Tobruk

- own a VR headset

- contact Buzzsaw via PM until a certain deadline

 

you might get accepted as tester for the closed beta.

[No.54_Reddog]

The closed beta which hasn't actually got anything to test according to the last communique...

 

I mean, that must bode well as previous releases have generally needed a lot of hot fixes. Not needing to test anything must mean that every thing developed so far is perfect. Right?

19 minutes ago, Karaya said:

 

Nowhere.

All that was ever said was that if you:

- own Blitz & Tobruk

- own a VR headset

- contact Buzzsaw via PM until a certain deadline

 

you might get accepted as tester for the closed beta.

 

[FTC_Karaya]

Noone outside of TFS knows what the exact state of things is and what's going on regarding the update and the next addon.

All we can do is take guesses and yes, based on CloD's track record this lack of information does not inspire confidence at all.

[Mysticpuma]

Two most active threads on this forum in months, currently 64 replies and not any further interaction from TFS. 

I mean it's been quiet before but the complete invisibility of any TFS members (apart from Riley posting about a flying event of which the last could only muster 34 players) really is a new level of hopelessness. 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

11 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Where did or does it say "if you buy DW-T you will get access to the VR beta"? 

Not being pedantic, is this what it says? I haven't seen the post/text so have no knowledge of it. 

As I said before, I see that it isn't written anywhere (exactly like that).
But that doesn't change the fact that I got the impression that there will be a significant improvement to the game in the near future.
And even if not, that there is information about the status.
As I said, I wasn't aware that at TFS I had to keep my expectations management at junk level.
I'm smarter now, but it annoys me anyway.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuma said:

Two most active threads on this forum in months, currently 64 replies and not any further interaction from TFS. 

I mean it's been quiet before but the complete invisibility of any TFS members (apart from Riley posting about a flying event of which the last could only muster 34 players) really is a new level of hopelessness. 

Those events help paper over what would o/w be apparent.

[Mysticpuma]

Although it has been mentioned, this is the last official comment I can see from Buzzsaw on the ATAG forums on Feb 14th

[simfan2015]

It is clear (to me personally) that the real issue here is not VR and has probably little to do with CloD, the sim-software itself.

What is happening to IL-2 GB might be quite similar.

But as always ... fingers crossed and hoping for the best.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

34 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

What is happening to IL-2 GB might be quite similar.

Do I missed something? What happens do IL-2 GB (except new owners) or do you mean that the new owners might be the problem?

[simfan2015]

54 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

or do you mean that the new owners might be the problem

That I don't know, but it is quite certain the games (CloD, GB) -engnes, nor (future) content does not seem to be the real issue here (not to me anyway).

I do keep buying all the new content that may become available anyway, whether there wil be a path forward or ... not.

Great games do not fade right away, even if no new content is being developed.

But we are not there yet, I still hope for CloD-'VR' to materialize in due time.

Edited March 2, 2023 by simfan2015

[Jack_Daniels1983]

21 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

That I don't know, but it is quite certain the games (CloD, GB) -engnes, nor (future) content does not seem to be the real issue here (not to me anyway).

I do keep buying all the new content that may become available anyway, whether there wil be a path forward or ... not.

Great games do not fade right away, even if no new content is being developed.

But we are not there yet, I still hope for CloD-'VR' to materialize in due time.

Nobody here has ever claimed that it would not be technically possible with the engine. We complain mainly about the non-communication of TFS and why we get told there is something upcoming, stay patience, and then....... silents in the woods.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Art-J]

... so pretty much the same situation as on GB side of the front in recent months ;).

 

The only difference is change of ownership here vs. change of management there.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

At present, the two current steps in which TFS is working (VR/the visual update and the new add-on) are completely locked and no more news come from TFS... BUT "Desert Wings - Tobruk" was developed and released within a few years... THUS... TFS is able to work at an average pace for a video games development company... THUS... the problem with the VR, the visual update and the new add-on... DOESN'T COME from TFS. TFS is contractally bound to other decision makers and those others, who are Fulqrum and 1C, for some reason, are not allowing yet the announcements we look for. As Mysticpuma reminded, two weeks ago we got these news from Buzzsaw: "I'm very busy with some critical Team Fusion business details" which is self-explanatory. Rather than reproaching TFS for whatever TFS is not responsible, let's stop all of this gossip, be patient in the forums, and play the simulators we love: Cliffs of Dover, Great Battles, DCS, or whatever other combat flight sims that are available out there.

 

 

[ZenBird]

I think a lot of VR users like myself who bought both clod and Tobruk  games but cant play without VR ( not set up  for nor interested in none-vr ), would be very pleased to just get access to a playable version that works with VR without having high expectations and would be forgiving/show understanding that it is best effort as the game was not originally designed for VR. Basically I threw money at this and bought it to support further development hoping for a VR version. It's been a long time waiting since then.

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

4 minutes ago, ZenBird said:

I think a lot of VR users like myself who bought both clod and Tobruk  games but cant play without VR ( not set up  for nor interested in none-vr ), would be very pleased to just get access to a playable version that works with VR without having high expectations and would be forgiving/show understanding that it is best effort as the game was not originally designed for VR. Basically I threw money at this and bought it to support further development hoping for a VR version. It's been a long time waiting since then.

 

 

I added the bold characters. That part is the most important one. TFS has granted access to a closed beta version that includes VR to a few hundreds of players... not for them having fun, but for the final testing steps before the official release happens. So, at this point, let's be honest and say why is there so much eagerness...

 

Please guys be patient. In my previous post I sufficiently insisted in the reason why we are locked in the middle of this frustrating half-way situation before announcements and official releases happen. It is an unknown reason but it is not TFS' fault. Patience is the clue word.