So, TFS busy with important business, etc, etc

March 10, 2023

@Jack_Daniels,

"I don't want to defend TFS, because I'm one of those people who feel ripped off"

I do not agree with you. TFS has never scammed me.

Ubisoft and 1C Company ripped me off by selling me a game that was full of bugs.

Without the free work of Team Fusion, I would never have played this game.

March 10, 2023

1 hour ago, OBT-Lionel said:

I do not agree with you. TFS has never scammed me.

We've already explained (those people who feel ripped off) in great detail why we feel this way.
But I'm honestly happy if you only associate positives with TFs, I would like to too. [No Sarcasm]

1 hour ago, OBT-Lionel said:

Without the free work of Team Fusion

Now it's gonna be fun. Where is the work free? The last time I looked, DWT cost about $50. In general, this is called a value chain. I invest time in a product to refine it and then get a profit from this added value (successful or not is an open question). But selling the box now as an act of generosity, I do not agree with you.

March 10, 2023

4 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

@Jack_Daniels,

"I don't want to defend TFS, because I'm one of those people who feel ripped off"

I do not agree with you. TFS has never scammed me.

Ubisoft and 1C Company ripped me off by selling me a game that was full of bugs.

Without the free work of Team Fusion, I would never have played this game.

TFS has done the best it can with a benighted game engine. That no entity will risk funding full time development speaks to any perceived "potential".

March 10, 2023

Jack_Daniel,

I bought the Cliff of Dover CD in May 2013, I paid €49.99 for it.

This money was not for TFS.

This money ended up in the coffers of Ubisoft and 1C Company.

I insist, it's not TFS that ripped me off.

Today if I can play Cliff it's thanks to TFS.

TFS didn't get a penny from me.

Dagwoodyt,

Contrary to you,

I think that today 1C regrets the BOS "adventure" and they must say to themselves that they should have developed from Cliff's source code.

March 10, 2023

38 minutes ago, OBT-Lionel said:

J

Dagwoodyt,

Contrary to you,

I think that today 1C regrets the BOS "adventure" and they must say to themselves that they should have developed from Cliff's source code.

To best of my knowledge, then as now (pre-TF CloD final patch to 2023), no one has been willing to fund full time development of games using the CloD game engine. To offer fantasy "regrets" is OK as long as they are acknowledged as an individual's fantasy. Fantasy does not negate absence of full-time development investment. If there are games other than Blitz that have been published using the CloD game engine please identify them.

March 10, 2023

2 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

I think that today 1C regrets the BOS "adventure" and they must say to themselves that they should have developed from Cliff's source code.

Er….1C did develop from Cliffs source code. They spent two years after the release of CLoD trying to produce an Eastern Front MMO with a team of fifty-five in Moscow.

They gave it up as a bad job as the game engine wasn’t up to it.

March 10, 2023

2 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

Contrary to you,

I think that today 1C regrets the BOS "adventure" and they must say to themselves that they should have developed from Cliff's source code.

lol. Yes, that must be why they dumped Cliffs on another developer and are still working on GB content and a GB successor. ?

March 10, 2023

11 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

lol. Yes, that must be why they dumped Cliffs on another developer and are still working on GB content and a GB successor. ?

They didn't dump Cliffs on another developer, they stopped development entirely.

March 10, 2023

As best I recall, failure of a BoM development effort led to RoF game engine being adopted to fill the void and the CloD engine was moth-balled until deal was finalized with TF in 2017. I remember forum posts in late 2016 stating the "impossibility" of 1C ever giving TF access to CloD source code. Then 1C did. 2017 to present and TF 5.0 is still in process. Hopefully completion will come in 2023.

March 10, 2023

22 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

They didn't dump Cliffs on another developer, they stopped development entirely.

I'm talking about the latest news that 1c has sold the TF version to some other company. Did I miss news that the entire thing has been deep six'd?

March 10, 2023

28 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I'm talking about the latest news that 1c has sold the TF version to some other company. Did I miss news that the entire thing has been deep six'd?

Seems the CloD engine has been "dumped" twice ?

March 10, 2023

Judging the current situation I don't expect any further Il-2 CloD releases, (hope I am wrong). I guess it's dificult to explain to a (new) investor that there is future for 2 IL-2-platforms, we know what the difference is and we will keep begging. IL-CloD is more realistic and has IL-2 1946 DNA in it's blood. But we have to be realistic, it's a niche market and may be the new investor is not impressed by the sales figures. Which might make it difficult for TFS to raise funds. This is just an assumption as there is totally radio silence at the moment.

The IL-2 Great Battles graphics looks nice on YT and will attract a lot of consumers because of that. But for me the Great Battles is not a replacement for Clod. FM and DM to arcadish and unrealistic. You can easy shoot down 6 bombers in 1 mission, I-16 can keep up with Fw-190's, you guys know what I mean. Many people have fun there and that's okay.

So, lately I tried DCS, a free trial, it has been a while since I flew a Fw-190, but I was shocked how poor the FM and DM is in comparison with CloD. If you are fan of CloD DCS will not give you what you prefer and also take costs into consideration here. I do no expect DCS to be a replacement for CloD in the (near) future, this has also to do with the many developers involved. I will not spend a $ on DCS, be sure. CloD hours are huge with low software investment.

As already said I will stick to CloD and have fun, still many aircraft to explore for me. Still hoping for 6.0 of course.

Edited March 10, 2023 by BussII

March 10, 2023

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I'm talking about the latest news that 1c has sold the TF version to some other company. Did I miss news that the entire thing has been deep six'd?

Are you referring to the somewhat opaque sale of some 1C assets to another publisher? If so, as far as I'm aware, nothing has been officially said as to who, if anyone, will be developing CloD any further. TFS would clearly like to, but it isn't clear that they will be able to - this will depend on details regarding intellectual property rights etc no doubt.

Edited March 10, 2023 by AndyJWest

March 10, 2023

7 hours ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Now it's gonna be fun. Where is the work free? The last time I looked, DWT cost about $50. In general, this is called a value chain.

I think Lionel was talking about the ten-year period of 2012-2022. Ten years for Team Fusion providing excellent and hard work... for free. "Desert Wings - Tobruk" was released in 2020 but I think that the TFS team of developers didn't get any payment for the part it did until 2022.

I just read all your posts, fellow pilots, and I understand your views. Yes, the story of the "IL-2 Dover series" is the story of a struggle. But the struggle keeps going and, if it eventually ends up by a victory for this game, thus sharing the lion's share with a few other sims on top of the sims' pantheon, then I'll be proud of having been for years one of its defenders.

March 11, 2023

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Are you referring to the somewhat opaque sale of some 1C assets to another publisher? If so, as far as I'm aware, nothing has been officially said as to who, if anyone, will be developing CloD any further. TFS would clearly like to, but it isn't clear that they will be able to - this will depend on details regarding intellectual property rights etc no doubt.

Yes. For now I’m just assuming that TF is still working on something that will be released after I die or something that I won’t bother to buy if I’m still alive.

March 12, 2023

On 3/10/2023 at 8:32 PM, Mysticpuma said:

We all live on in hope of the mythical update...

That's why I'm still here.

On 3/11/2023 at 7:32 AM, BussII said:

The IL-2 Great Battles graphics looks nice on YT and will attract a lot of consumers because of that. But for me the Great Battles is not a replacement for Clod. FM and DM too arcadish and unrealistic. You can easy shoot down 6 bombers in 1 mission...

I've been playing DW-T quite a bit since the first of the year (and boosting the reported play time). I went back to GB recently to try it out again, and was surprised at how "arcadish" it felt to me. I believe CloD/DW-T is a far superior WWII flight sim to GB or DCS, but don't tell the new owners - let them sell it for cheap to someone who will continue developing it. The idea of flying a FW-190 A-3 on this game engine gets me really excited for the future (and frustrated at the same time).

March 12, 2023

4 hours ago, Feldgrun said:

That's why I'm still here.

I've been playing DW-T quite a bit since the first of the year (and boosting the reported play time). I went back to GB recently to try it out again, and was surprised at how "arcadish" it felt to me. I believe CloD/DW-T is a far superior WWII flight sim to GB or DCS, but don't tell the new owners - let them sell it for cheap to someone who will continue developing it. The idea of flying a FW-190 A-3 on this game engine gets me really excited for the future (and frustrated at the same time).

There's a lot to love about CloD, but absolutely no momentum towards getting the community interested for either old or new players.

I'm looking forward to the Typhoon (Car Door version), but we've waited years for just clouds to be added so the 'how long is a piece of string' analogy continues to be the main feature we can take away from any development news.....if there is ever any.

March 12, 2023

2 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

but we've waited years for just clouds to be added

What do you exactly mean, Puma? Since the very beginning, Team Fusion brought plenty of features that never have been modelled by Maddox Games at release of this game in 2011. Team Fusion started the hard work as of 2012 and we benefitted from the fruits of their efforts as of 2014... for free. They've brought us flyable 109 E4s, which means the modelling of new on-board systems that haven't been modelled before (German automatic propeller pitch, for example), flyable Beaufighters with dual fuel gauges, plenty of bug repairs, etc. At release in 2011, thus before Team Fusion, there were (including variants and subvariants) 17 player-flyable aircraft only in the basic game, the one that is set in the Battle of Britain. Since 2017 and the Blitz edition, we have an overall number of 47 flyables (including variants and subvariants)... for a cheaper price for new buyers... and for free for us, the old possessors of the game. Then, after the Blitz edition was released, they started working harder on their DLC. So, since 2020, thank to all what Team Fusion brought to "Desert Wings - Tobruk", we can fly high-altitude 109 E-7/Z, with the nitrous oxide GM-1 injection system. I used myself that cock and the emulated physics is exquisitely modelled... and efficient. It really works: you see how the needle, in the pressure gauge (ATA), at an altitude of 8,000 metres, moves some notches forward... and this is 100% made by Team Fusion. Since "Desert Wings - Tobruk" we can fly 40mm-cannon-equipped Tank Buster Hurricanes (more damage modelling, thus more accomplished work). Since "Desert Wings - Tobruk" we can fly Gladiators, CR-42s, P-40s, Martlets, more Tiger Moths than ever... Since "Desert Wings - Tobruk" we can go on torpedo runs flying Heinkels and Wellingtons and sinking enemy ships, etc... I simply cannot understand how these people of Team Fusion, after so many years of hard work (most of the time, for free) can accept being treated that way (not by you Puma, but others are really ungrateful) if we take into account all what the Team Fusion guys have done for this game, and what they still are doing now.

So yes, I agree, we have no nutritous news for an excessively long time now... but this seems to be a problem that is related to the game owners, apparently they have frozen the situation and nobody here can help, not even Team Fusion.

March 12, 2023

3 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

What do you exactly mean, Puma? Since the very beginning,

Since they announced Truesky was in beta, then alpha, then beta, then there was an update that meant all of their work was incompatible, then alpha, now still beta.

March 12, 2023

Ok, Puma, I got it. Please in my last post, reread that part that reads "but this seems to be a problem that is related to the game owners, apparently they have frozen the situation and nobody here can help, not even Team Fusion."

March 12, 2023

4 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

So yes, I agree, we have no nutritous news for an excessively long time now... but this seems to be a problem that is related to the game owners, apparently they have frozen the situation and nobody here can help, not even Team Fusion.

I have yet to see anything that proves that is the case. Over a year ago we were told it was because of 1C not allowing them to release any details, then it gets sold to Fulcrum/Tencent (whichever) and now the same situation is in play? Even if it is that they can't announce v6, there are apparently vast swathes of work being carried out on VR, Truesky, Speedtree, the graphics update, all of which have been announced, and yet all we have is

March 12, 2023

2 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Ok, Puma, I got it. Please in my last post, reread that part that reads "but this seems to be a problem that is related to the game owners, apparently they have frozen the situation and nobody here can help, not even Team Fusion."

Have you spoken to the game owners Kintaro? Because if I were a cynical man, I'd say that interpretation of the situation with zero evidence and only one side's vague commentary thus far, suits Team Fusion perfectly and means that us, the paying customers, are left in the dark with regards to the actual truth, which may just as equally be that Team Fusion have bitten off more than they can chew, can't deliver what was promised, and have now dug themselves a hole so big they cannot see a way to navigate out of it.

Frankly I'm far less interested in the future plans for new paid DLC, I'm focussed entirely on fixing the game we have now and the delivery of the much vaunted and promised Visual Upgrade.

March 12, 2023

2 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I have yet to see anything that proves that is the case

Me too.

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Have you spoken to the game owners Kintaro?

No.

The silence has lasted too long, precisely since Tencent purchased Fulqrum. This is why I said "apparently".

March 12, 2023

Notice that, when challenged, the number of announcements quickly decreases and timeline for delivery of "announcements" lengthens. Characteristically, accountability shifts from TFS to its' "partners", who don't post to this forum.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

March 12, 2023

On 3/10/2023 at 11:58 PM, AndyJWest said:

Are you referring to the somewhat opaque sale of some 1C assets to another publisher? If so, as far as I'm aware, nothing has been officially said as to who, if anyone, will be developing CloD any further. TFS would clearly like to, but it isn't clear that they will be able to - this will depend on details regarding intellectual property rights etc no doubt.

Tencent acquired 1C Entertainment from 1C and changed the name to Fulqrum Publishing.

STEAM:

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bussard2

March 12, 2023

So the "Banana Forums" are alive again

http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=189

I note the most recent post on there is advertising professional hackers for your games ?

Does this me we are back where we started and that is the new official hub of TFS?

Edited March 12, 2023 by Mysticpuma

March 12, 2023

Fulqrum doesn't seem to be interested in adding tags to their games either

No links to IL2 (for those making generic searches) and Desert Wings

Literally have to be super specific to get the link and it isn't associated with Cliffs

March 12, 2023

Developer: Team Fusion Simulations Ltd. So TFS is in fact a company based in Vancouver.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bussard2

March 12, 2023

8 minutes ago, Bussard2 said:

Developer: Team Fusion Simulations Ltd. So TFS is in fact a company based in Vancouver.

But part of the agreement with 1C was that this was TFS's official forum? So one would assume (without any input from TFS), that Fulqrum would request the same?

March 12, 2023

13 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

But part of the agreement with 1C was that this was TFS's official forum? So one would assume (without any input from TFS), that Fulqrum would request the same?

This was posted by Buzzsaw before the radio silence:

March 12, 2023

18 minutes ago, Bussard2 said:

This was posted by Buzzsaw before the radio silence:

Guess there is no reason for TFS to post anything here then.

All these people barking up the wrong tree ?

March 12, 2023

2 hours ago, Bussard2 said:

Developer: Team Fusion Simulations Ltd. So TFS is in fact a company based in Vancouver.

But if they weren't 'controlled' by someone else, they could announce anything they want without their partners consent.

So currently TFS exist but can't do anything unless their "partner" allows them, effectively they may never release anything unless Fulqrum agrees and based on the current dissemination of information, we may never know.

March 12, 2023

2 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

But if they weren't 'controlled' by someone else, they could announce anything they want without their partners consent.

So currently TFS exist but can't do anything unless their "partner" allows them, effectively they may never release anything unless Fulqrum agrees and based on the current dissemination of information, we may never know.

Even if true it would be a very convenient arrangement for TFS. TFS thus can never be held accountable for delivering on any of its' quasi-announcements. In fact TFS might not even be "allowed" to identify what "announcement(s)" its' "partners" are withholding. ?

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

March 12, 2023

Anyway, I stayed away from the forum for over a month earlier this year as I just figured stay away until something actually happens.

I reckon I'll wander off again as nothing changes.

The community remain frustrated, TFS bring nothing to the table and we just chat (argue?) amongst ourselves about the feeling of being disrespected by TFS and the mythical 'partner' who won't let them announce anything.

I'll keep reading the forums but this will be my last message on the Clod forums until the update is released.

See you at Christmas... Maybe ?

March 13, 2023

And so it ends...

I'm going back to shooting up bombers over the English Channel.

March 13, 2023

19 hours ago, Bussard2 said:

This was posted by Buzzsaw before the radio silence:

So, the blue sign is reserved fo special guests?

Edited March 13, 2023 by BENKOE

March 13, 2023

1 hour ago, BENKOE said:

So, the blue sign is reserved fo special guests?

CEO of TFS in this case but usually someone with an official role in TFS.

March 13, 2023

1 hour ago, BOO said:

usually someone with an official role in TFS.

I guess the above applies to 1CGS and Daidalos Team as well. But, again, this is only my guessing...

March 13, 2023

Just now, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I guess the above applies to 1CGS and Daidalos Team as well. But, again, this is only my guessing...

1GCS is green - Daidalos, as far as I am aware are not connected to TFS officially but may potentially share members i suppose.

March 13, 2023

5 minutes ago, BOO said:

1GCS is green - Daidalos, as far as I am aware are not connected to TFS officially but may potentially share members i suppose.

Thank you BOO, I just noticed that the blue, white or green colours applie to the background of their posts in the forum. At first I thought you were talking about the shield icon. The shield-shaped badges remain blue for all of these guys. For example:

1) Han (1CGS IL-2 producer): green background on his posts and blue shield badge on the avatar.
2) Wardog5711 (1CGS IL-2 community manager): green background on his posts and blue shield badge on the avatar.
3) Buzzsaw (TFS CEO): blue background on his posts and blue shield badge on the avatar.
4) LukeFF (forum moderator): white background on his posts and blue shield badge on the avatar.

So, TFS busy with important business, etc, etc

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