p40 &/or p39 ?

[TJT]

The Kuban scenario is one that would bring in aircraft types that would hit well in certain....uhmmm.... selfcentric markets  .

Jokes aside, Kuban would be a very good choice for a first expansion, one that holds good scenario possibilitys along with the ability to add a varied historic and market attractiv plane set.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Any time I've ran into a P-39 it's been a hard fight and I really have to watch out.

[Sgt_Joch]

Based on the RoF model, you can bet most of the planes will eventually make it in, as long of course as players are willing to pay for them.

 

In terms of next theatre, the most bang for the buck would come for a Kharkov map, which covers fighting from late 41 to late 43, i.e.:

 

-fall 41: german conquest of Kharkov;

-winter 42: Soviet winter offensive:

-may 42: Soviet Kharkov offensive:

-june-july 42: opening phase of Case Blue;

-jan-march 43: Soviet winter offensive and German reconquest of Kharkov:

-july 43: southern shoulder of Kursk offensive:

-aug.-sept. 43: Soviet fall offensive

 

plus the gap from aug. 42 to jan. 43 would be nicely covered by the Stalingrad map.

 

Of course, a Kharkov map would probably only interest the real Ostfront fanatics.

[SCG_Neun]

The latest addition would be the Italian fighter Macchi 202 who worked with the 21 Fighter Group Earth.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.202

 

Voss

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MacchiC202_DC.JPG

 

That plane looks sleek Voss.  I remember when our old friend Graf did some cool skins for that airplane for the Eastern Front, back in IL-2 days....

[Heywooood]

either way - I am not particular...as long as P-40 is first...with correct dihedral naturally...

[Freycinet]

:O where?

In my head... :-)

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

 

Instead of looking for "claims" as a form of “verification” it would be better if you could find an actual and verifiable orbat that shows P-40s, or P-39s, of P-38s, or Spitfires, or Hurricanes (or whatever) in theater, and in service, during the announced time frame and combat area for BOS.

 

 

Wotan

 

 

I'm 100 % with you Wotan !

 

 

Rodolphe

...

[LukeFF]

102 IAD PVO, 10 December 1942:

 

629 IAP: 11 Hurricanes

652 IAP: 1 Hurricane

 

Source: Stalingrad: The Air Battle

[6S.Manu]

Any time I've ran into a P-39 it's been a hard fight and I really have to watch out.

 

You should thank Oleg for that... I still can remember how I chased a black smoking P-39 out of the map in my 190A4 for more than 15 minutes: do you believe I overheated my engine and the guy was still extending?

 

Maybe I'm not recalling well, but it seems to me that the first P39s in IL2 (the oldest version) were really difficult to fly, but they changed in the next version of the game.

 

Or maybe it's since in the meantime I learned to fly...

 

Anyway, I'm really worried about the competitiveness of the russian planes in BoS: IIRC the pilots hated the Lagg-3, favouring the I-16. There will be a race to get the Yak ASAP.

Edited August 17, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[SCG_Neun]

The key in the 109 is still going be patience, which I have little of, and the ever present buddy who has bled out all his energy and is screaming for assistance at 500 feet......

[BlitzPig_EL]

Anyway, I'm really worried about the competitiveness of the russian planes in BoS: IIRC the pilots hated the Lagg-3, favouring the I-16. There will be a race to get the Yak ASAP.

 

I too have some worry about this, especially online.  My fear is that what we will end up with is a sky full of Bf 109s and only a handful of VVS aircraft on the server.

 

I witnessed a similar behavior in Pacific scenarios in IL2.   Large numbers of US Navy/ USAAF aircraft and often very few IJN/IJA flyers on the servers.

It got so bad on Zekes vs. Widlcats one night that those of us flying for Japan all just switched to the Allied side.  Not one of the other Allied flyers would switch to Japan to balance things out till we did that.

And, when they did finally, we all stayed on the Allied side and slaughtered them.  It was so easy.  It's no wonder they didn't want to switch.  All their bluster about being "experten" was just a ruse to keep

getting the easy kills.

 

I hope BoS does not go this way.

[Frequent_Flyer]

I too have some worry about this, especially online.  My fear is that what we will end up with is a sky full of Bf 109s and only a handful of VVS aircraft on the server.

 

I witnessed a similar behavior in Pacific scenarios in IL2.   Large numbers of US Navy/ USAAF aircraft and often very few IJN/IJA flyers on the servers.

It got so bad on Zekes vs. Widlcats one night that those of us flying for Japan all just switched to the Allied side.  Not one of the other Allied flyers would switch to Japan to balance things out till we did that.

And, when they did finally, we all stayed on the Allied side and slaughtered them.  It was so easy.  It's no wonder they didn't want to switch.  All their bluster about being "experten" was just a ruse to keep

getting the easy kills.

 

I hope BoS does not go this way.

Per the most recent Friday update, during in the audio of the Alpha demonstration one of the individuals ( Zak or Loft ) stated' the Lagg-3 is best used to attack Stuka's or He-111 not dog fighting ' . If this is any indication of the disparity in performance, there may not be a large demand for it on  servers.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Then what?

 

Wait for however long it takes to "unlock" a not much better performing Yak 1?

 

Hence the problem with the whole idea of unlocking aircraft.  Perhaps good for the offline flyer, but absolute rubbish for those of us that fly online.

[Ranger]

     I think, just from my reading here, that it will be LOTs of 109s! Perhaps the AI "might" level the playing field, but the jury is out on that: as is, I guess, the number of 109 Pilots.

It just seems that  the 109 will be the superior fighter (air to air), thus most will gravitate to it. I will most likely fly the VVS aircraft, and hope for the best.

      Looking forward to getting the gear in the well !

 

Ranger

[Heywooood]

I have seen multiple references by the developers indicating that there would be no artificial FM in the name of online equality...VVS would have to rely on tactics to survive

 

in RoF early days the 'game' was loathed by online players for having limited aircraft selection and unquantified FM..as well as the superior armament of the German aircraft..as was historically accurate

 

same argument and complaints will be heard here...until time and investment allows the addition of later marks - and even then it won't really subside because the onwhine never dies

 

buy the damn game and be patient a little while - or don't buy it until you are satisfied that you can win easily...and wait longer

 

because its all about winning... aparently

Edited August 18, 2013 by Heywooood

[Recon]

If you want to sell the game outside of Russia it helps to have aircraft people are drawn too.  If you fly German, no problem - that is what is being said here.  I suspect that is why there are always typically more German pilots, they can pick up any WW2 sim and know they will get to fly a 109.

 

It's not a criticism really, I think it's human nature for, ie. North American pilots to be interested in flying p40s & p39s.  As a kid and as an adult, when I goto our local air force museum , I loved looking at the p40's the one p39 they had.

 

That said, I really like flying the Spit 1a 100oct in Cliffs of Dover.   It will be like starting all over again with a Yak-1 and Lagg-3, back to the early IL2:Sturmovik memories.

[Bearcat]

You should thank Oleg for that... I still can remember how I chased a black smoking P-39 out of the map in my 190A4 for more than 15 minutes: do you believe I overheated my engine and the guy was still extending?

 

Maybe I'm not recalling well, but it seems to me that the first P39s in IL2 (the oldest version) were really difficult to fly, but they changed in the next version of the game.

 

Or maybe it's since in the meantime I learned to fly...

 

Anyway, I'm really worried about the competitiveness of the russian planes in BoS: IIRC the pilots hated the Lagg-3, favouring the I-16. There will be a race to get the Yak ASAP.

 

Yeah I think the P-39 in IL2 was always a challenge to fly.. I was totally blown away by the fact that after a certain point if your spin was too acute you could not bail out.

[theOden]

... I will most likely fly the VVS aircraft, and hope for the best.

      Looking forward to getting the gear in the well !

 

Ranger

 

At least there's two of us haha

[6S.Manu]

And, when they did finally, we all stayed on the Allied side and slaughtered them.  It was so easy.  It's no wonder they didn't want to switch.  All their bluster about being "experten" was just a ruse to keep getting the easy kills.

 

I hope BoS does not go this way.

Sure, probably with some coordination between IJN pilots they could stay alive longer but against expert BnZ pilots in a better plane there would be no way to get them.

 

IMO this was a great flaw of IL2: plane's performance are too much important since SA is usually too high. Radar engine, black dots, transparent clouds: really I would like a different spotting system to enable some real ambushing tactic. As told in the past in one of my suggestion thread, a spotting focus area only on the center of the screen (and variable by distance from the target, number of targets in the same airspace, size of the target) would help the realism extremely.

 

People would fly in finger-four formations because of it's benefit (and not since it's cool to do), and the pilot would actively scan the sky (not waiting for dots to casually appear on the border of the screen).

Edited August 18, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I am yet to finish the video stream, thank you real life, but from what I've seen BoS will be a benchmark like old IL-2 was. So I hope sales soar and enable us more planes and theatres in the future. As long as the added planes are tied to the historical scenarios just bring them on But as many have stated the P40 and P39 would be nice to see.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I still intend to mainly fly VVS, regardless of numbers online.

 

If the fighters prove too frustrating, well they do.  

 

The Pe-2 may prove to be the secret success story of the sim.

 

[Frequent_Flyer]

I still intend to mainly fly VVS, regardless of numbers online.

 

If the fighters prove too frustrating, well they do.  

 

The Pe-2 may prove to be the secret success story of the sim.

 

I can only fly VVS, the few times I climbed into a Luftwaffe cockpit I felt "dirty"  like I needed a shower and an exorcism.

IMHO a lot will depend on how realistic/historical the damage models on all aircraft.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Then what?

 

Wait for however long it takes to "unlock" a not much better performing Yak 1?

 

Hence the problem with the whole idea of unlocking aircraft.  Perhaps good for the offline flyer, but absolute rubbish for those of us that fly online.

I'm kind of surprised that a Yak-9 or Yak-1B isn't in the base lineup. They were there for the Operation Uranus part of the battle... I believe anyways.

 

The Yak-1 we're getting is apparently the VK-105PF variant so it will have a little extra punch than the Yak-1 in IL-2 1946 but a Yak-1B or Yak-9 is where the performance levels start to approach something that looks a bit like parity. The early Yak's changed weight and engine power in small variations a half dozen times between 1940 and 1942/43 so its possible that it'll at least be competitive with the Bf109F-4.

 

I've been flying the LaGG-3 Series 35 online against the G-2s and its a rough fight. It has just enough in it to fight but not enough to make it a fair fight.

Edited August 19, 2013 by IceFire

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

lets wait what kind of mods 777 will make for the Yak........perhaps the ,lightweight' one. It was a very good performer, just only armed with one 20mm and no tankprotection :D

 

now we can propably recognice why they went away from a Battle of Moskau Scenario...........

[6S.Manu]

lets wait what kind of mods 777 will make for the Yak........perhaps the ,lightweight' one. It was a very good performer, just only armed with one 20mm and no tankprotection :D

 

now we can propably recognice why they went away from a Battle of Moskau Scenario...........

 

And it had wooden wings: this should be a real problem ingame against HE shells.

[FlatSpinMan]

I still intend to mainly fly VVS, regardless of numbers online.

 

If the fighters prove too frustrating, well they do.  

 

The Pe-2 may prove to be the secret success story of the sim.

 

Good for you. Really. I'll probably saunter casually over to the dark side once we're up and running, but that's mainly for the paint schemes. At heart I'm an underdog crap-plane kind of guy.

[BlitzPig_EL]

. At heart I'm an underdog crap-plane kind of guy.

 

 

Myself as well.

[Volkoff]

Per the most recent Friday update, during in the audio of the Alpha demonstration one of the individuals ( Zak or Loft ) stated' the Lagg-3 is best used to attack Stuka's or He-111 not dog fighting ' . If this is any indication of the disparity in performance, there may not be a large demand for it on  servers.

 

Until we VVS fighter types get the Yak-1 and the La-5, we need to protect our IL2's and Pe-2's with the LaGG-3. Sure, the LaGG-3 is no real match for the BF-109, but that just adds to the challenge of it all. It may come down to LaGG-3 pilots accepting the role of the proverbial Battlestar Galactica Cylon Raider. You go out, defend the basestar, get blasted out of the sky by the Viper pilots, everything goes black, and next thing you know you wake up on a resurrection ship to repeat the process. LaGG-3 pilots must simply get their IL2's and PE's to their targets, at all costs to our LaGG-3s and down the German bombers at all costs to our LaGG-3's. We must just accept that the BF-109's will decimate our number, period. This is all role playing and a game. None of us die at the end of the mission, so we can afford to roll with the punches.

 

  MJ

[Finkeren]

Basically, the FM of every plane should be as close to historical figures as posible, end of story.

 

BoS will be a flight sim first and foremost, not a "game" in the sense, that it's all about winning. In RoF many of the most exhillerating online dogfights I have been in, I lost, yet they're just as memorable as some of my best victories. "Balance" is simply not an issue, except if it involves inaccuracies in the FM (as is the case with some aircraft in RoF being too fast, while others are too slow).

 

Sure the LaGG is going to be an underdog, but that's part of the experience. The challenge it offers to crack pilots could well prove to be a massive aid to the VVS side - In RoF I've seen pilots flying planes like the Halberstadt D.II with great success against late war Entente scouts (a matchup much more lopsided, than the LaGG-3 vs Bf 109 is going to be).

 

In any case, I can see one big equalizer from the VVS perspective: It will generally be flown by players who know the plane well and how to use it to its full potential, a luxury the real VVS pilots of 1942 didn't have.

[6S.Manu]

Basically, the FM of every plane should be as close to historical figures as posible, end of story.

Lets hope it's going to be like you say here.

 

Because I'm afraid that if an important "yellow entity" wants the game to be balanced then the development team must act as it commands.

Edited August 19, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[ShamrockOneFive]

Basically, the FM of every plane should be as close to historical figures as posible, end of story.

 

BoS will be a flight sim first and foremost, not a "game" in the sense, that it's all about winning. In RoF many of the most exhillerating online dogfights I have been in, I lost, yet they're just as memorable as some of my best victories. "Balance" is simply not an issue, except if it involves inaccuracies in the FM (as is the case with some aircraft in RoF being too fast, while others are too slow).

 

Sure the LaGG is going to be an underdog, but that's part of the experience. The challenge it offers to crack pilots could well prove to be a massive aid to the VVS side - In RoF I've seen pilots flying planes like the Halberstadt D.II with great success against late war Entente scouts (a matchup much more lopsided, than the LaGG-3 vs Bf 109 is going to be).

 

In any case, I can see one big equalizer from the VVS perspective: It will generally be flown by players who know the plane well and how to use it to its full potential, a luxury the real VVS pilots of 1942 didn't have.

No question. The original IL-2, despite whatever people may point fingers over, tried to do this as well. The challenge is in the sources and it appears that there are even more sources and details available for the creation of accurate flight modelling than ever before. There's also more CPU power to make assumptions with from the get-go... so this should be better than anything we've seen in the past.

 

The LaGG-3 will be (hopefully) whatever it will be and I'll fly it in combat. Bring it on The only questions to me will be what choices they make in terms of what exact equipment will be offered. The Series 29 is fairly specific for LaGG-3s. The Yak-1 is, at present, a vague thing. Again, I hear that it has the VK-105PF. It could have the lightweight option (20mm only, armor removed, etc.) as an unlockable feature. Not sure... but it may prove to be a solid contender. The Yaks were quite capable.

Edited August 20, 2013 by IceFire

[Sgt_Joch]

let's not turn this into a discussion of the RoF FMs, there is already more than enough of that on the RoF forums. Replicating WW1 planes is very difficult since: 1) flight tests were in their infancy and there is actually very little useful info; and 2) most German flight tests have been lost/ destroyed. The RoF devs have done a great job with what info they have. BoS should be easier since there is a lot more useful info around.

[Heywooood]

lets talk crap planes

I love them to death...get it

 

give me a I-16 or an I-15 even...

 

a Brewster Buffalo - sweet

 

P-36 Hawk 

I could go on and on...

[Volkoff]

Basically, the FM of every plane should be as close to historical figures as posible, end of story.

 

BoS will be a flight sim first and foremost, not a "game" in the sense, that it's all about winning. In RoF many of the most exhillerating online dogfights I have been in, I lost, yet they're just as memorable as some of my best victories. "Balance" is simply not an issue, except if it involves inaccuracies in the FM (as is the case with some aircraft in RoF being too fast, while others are too slow).

 

Sure the LaGG is going to be an underdog, but that's part of the experience. The challenge it offers to crack pilots could well prove to be a massive aid to the VVS side - In RoF I've seen pilots flying planes like the Halberstadt D.II with great success against late war Entente scouts (a matchup much more lopsided, than the LaGG-3 vs Bf 109 is going to be).

 

In any case, I can see one big equalizer from the VVS perspective: It will generally be flown by players who know the plane well and how to use it to its full potential, a luxury the real VVS pilots of 1942 didn't have.

 

Finkeren,

Thanks for the heads up, Finkeren. I don't know exactly what to expect, as I have no WWII flight sim multiplayer experience. Your example of the Halby and the Allied rides, puts things in a perspective I can relate to, though. That the matchup between the LaGG-3 and the BF 109 is not as lopsided as the matchup between the Halberstadt D.II and the late war Allied WW1 planes is utterly outstanding news. With practice, tactics, and teamwork, I might even come to like the LaGG-3. Still, I am thinking that the Yak-1 or La-5 will steal my heart. Speaking of Yak-1's and stealing hearts, you have a very pretty lady in your avatar! I hope that the team considers using Lilya as the model for the first female fighter pilot in IL2 BOS. 

 

MJ

 

 

lets talk crap planes

I love them to death...get it

 

give me a I-16 or an I-15 even...

 

a Brewster Buffalo - sweet

 

P-36 Hawk 

I could go on and on...

 

I would love to see the 1-16, 1-15, too. I like the idea of old school open cockpit rides. That being the case, I also love the better performing rides too. Along with the 1-16 and 1-15, I would love to see the P-40, Yak-1b, and the Yak-9 get into BOS.

 

 MJ 

[Finkeren]

Your example of the Halby and the Allied rides, puts things in a perspective I can relate to, though. That the matchup between the LaGG-3 and the BF 109 is not as lopsided as the matchup between the Halberstadt D.II and the late war Allied WW1 planes is utterly outstanding news.

MJ

Keep in mind: I don't know how the two planes will turn out in BoS, but based on technical data, and the way they were modelled in the old IL2 (not to put IL2 up as a gold standard of aircraft modelling) the LaGG-3 should at least stand a fighting chance in the Series 29 configuration, even if they're not at all equal. The 1942 LaGGs were, according to some sources, roughly equal to the Bf 109E. Also, it is more or less given, that the aircraft in BoS will be modelled in accordance with "factory standards", which means that the LaGG will propably fly, as it was intended to, but seldom did. IRL factory fresh LaGGs were often poorly finished and it wasn't rare for them to be some 30 - 40km/h slower, than their stated top speed, and this was a big contributor to the bad reputation the LaGG had. This will most likely not be modelled in BoS. We will propably get to fly a pretty "well built" LaGG.

 

I have some hope, that the unlockable mods for the LaGG will allow us to bring it up to something like Series 35 standards, which should be a real help with fixed slats and other improvements that somewhat helps handling, if not overall performance.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Finkeren

[Sgt_Joch]

Keep in mind: I don't know how the two planes will turn out in BoS, but based on technical data, and the way they were modelled in the old IL2 (not to put IL2 up as a gold standard of aircraft modelling) the LaGG-3 should at least stand a fighting chance in the Series 29 configuration, even if they're not at all equal. The 1942 LaGGs were, according to some sources, roughly equal to the Bf 109E. Also, it is more or less given, that the aircraft in BoS will be modelled in accordance with "factory standards", which means that the LaGG will propably fly, as it was intended to, but seldom did. IRL factory fresh LaGGs were often poorly finished and it wasn't rare for them to be some 30 - 40km/h slower, than their stated top speed, and this was a big contributor to the bad reputation the LaGG had. This will most likely not be modelled in BoS. We will propably get to fly a pretty "well built" LaGG.

 

 

 

That was only an issue in 1941, the early production models in mid-41 had a number of defects which had to be remedied, there were also some issues with workmanship, again only with the early production models. Late in 1941, you also had an issue with disruption of personnel/supplies when factories were relocated to the east. One production batch was completed with wooden propellers.

 

However this was no longer an issue in 1942 as is shown by flight tests carried out at that time.

[Trooper117]

Any LL aircraft will be great in the future

Hurricane, Tomahawk, P-40E-K, P-39, P-63, Spitfire... we need them all!

[Freycinet]

Jason supposedly loved the original P-39 in Il-2 Classic so I am sure he will manage to slip that one in...

[ShamrockOneFive]

Jason supposedly loved the original P-39 in Il-2 Classic so I am sure he will manage to slip that one in...

Someone said something about a Kuban/Crimea map would be a possible logical addon. It's fairly logical step after Stalingrad that wouldn't need a totally new batch of aircraft to make it real... but you would need a P-39

Edited August 23, 2013 by IceFire

[Trooper117]

Yes, the Kuban add on has been mentioned by Zak if the sales are good enough on release