p40 &/or p39 ?

[Recon]

I'm curious to know if any discussions in the dev team around adding a p39 at some point ?

 

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_P-39_Airacobra_Soviet.html

 

(I always enjoy seeing the p39 at the Dayton Airforce Museum)

 

Also, the p40:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/

 

"During World War II, the Soviet Union was actually the second country (after Great Britain) to import the Curtiss P-40 fighter. In all, the USSR received 247 P40C (Tomahawk IIB) and 2,178 P-40E, -K, -L, and -N aircraft from 1941 through 1944, which ranks this type in fourth position (after the P-39, Hurricane, and P-63) among foreign aircraft delivered to the Soviet Union [1]. Deliveries were made by year in the following quantities: 1941-230 Tomahawks and 15 P-40E; 1942-17 Tomahawks and 487 P-40E, E-1, K, and L; 1943-939 P-40E-1, K, L, M, and N; 1944-446 primarily P-40M and N [2]. 

During the war years the P-40 fighter was included in the inventories of the three basic branches of Soviet aviation: VVS Red Army (VVS KA), VVS Navy (VVS VMF), and PVO (national air defense) aviation, and fought practically on all fronts from the Black Sea to the Barents Sea. It is a little known fact that the Tomahawks and Kittyhawks with red stars participated in all the decisive battles: the battle for Moscow, at Stalingrad, the defense of Leningrad, in the Kuban, at the Kursk bulge, and beyond to the liberation of eastern Prussia."

 

 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

well:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/745-poll-what-soviet-lend-lease-fighter-are-you-looking-forward/

 

the P-39 ( wich is my favorite L&L fighter) does not fit to the Stalingrad scenario, but after the developers decided to ad the Fw190 , that also does not fit, all is possible i guess......

[BlitzPig_EL]

Sim need m0ar P 40.

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I suspect several lend lease aircraft will be in the first add on, Hurri, P39, P40 and Spit? Plus they can start adding some more German equipmnet. I think 8 plane sets are worth the full price of add ons. They would form a natural bridge to a North Africa Campaign - plane set wise. North Africa would also be good because it is vast (big maps/happy bomber boys) and the ground detail wont eat up a lot of resources similar to BoS. Good planes, interesting skins and smooth gameplay makes for happy simmers. Another campaign in Russia with western aircraft would probably keep both the east and west camps happy. North Africa to Med would keep it rolling and please the western buyers of the game.

 

No inside knowledge - just an opinion.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I think either the Hurri or the P-40, as was stated the P-39 jsut wasnt there.

[Rjel]

I would think based on the response to the preorder thread that the interest is there for a successful beginning to BoS. What the future holds is anyone's guess but I'd bet it's maybe looking a little brighter to 777 based on the last couple of days.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Rjel

[4./JG53_Wotan]

I think either the Hurri or the P-40, as was stated the P-39 jsut wasnt there.

 

There were no Hurricanes or P-40s in theater during the announced time frame for BoS - this was pointed out in a couple other threads. The best lend lease option would be an A-20 variant - that is if the developers follow their own time line. Whether they do or not maybe in question since the "Fw 190 A-3" was announced as a "special" plane for premium buyers. There were no Fw 190s at Stalingrad either.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I did some minor research on the internets and am changing my eight plane dream set. I'd say Kuban for theater and the planes could be:

1. P39

2. P40

3. Hurricane

4. A20

5. Yak 9

6. Bf 110

7. Ju 88

8. Fw 190 A4

 

Good mix for both sides, lend lease, and an excellent Russian fighter. Could be good......................so, I'm gonna repost this on another theater thread as well

[slm]

That list has 4 lend lease planes.

I'd replace one of the fighters with Pe-2.

And I-16 would be a nice plane to have - the series needs early war slower planes

Edited July 28, 2013 by slm

[Recon]

That list has 4 lend lease planes.

I'd replace one of the fighters with Pe-2.

And I-16 would be a nice plane to have - the series needs early war slower planes

 

Pe-2 is already one of the included AC -  "Buyers of the Standard and Premium Editions will get the same base set of 6 aircraft (LaGG-3 (series 29), Bf-109 F-4, IL-2 AM-38 (1942 year's model, single-seat), Ju-87 D-3, Pe-2 (series 87 and 110) and He-111 H-6) with the possibility to earn 2 more aircrafts in the game (Yak-1 and Bf-109 G-2)."

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Agreed,

 

I don't expect to see the I-16 for a while. Also, the only one to give up (while keeping in mind the room for expansion into a North African campaign) to make room would be the P39.  And no Russian would ever find that to be acceptable!

 

 

The P39 only served for a few weeks in North Africa in 1944 according to Wikipedia. The list moves in some western aircraft while keeping the theater in Russia. The set includes the Yak-9 and overall gets the VVS on par with their German counterparts. It maintains fidelity but opens the door to using some of the same aircraft for North Africa and the next eight plane set that would entail - including; improved Huricanes, new Spits, Blenheims, B-25s and some Italian stuff.

 

See, I'm visionary

Edited July 28, 2013 by HerrMurf

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

rumors are saying they , if things with BoS will go well, the plan as next adon map the Kuban 43 .

I alwasy liked the IL2 Kuban map ( Valley of Death COOP anyone ? ).

They could make

P-39

Spitfire V

Yak-9

A-20

 

Ju88A-4

Ju88C-6

 

as example. But now i would say, let us first have the original setup installed :D

[Hunziker]

Poor little unloved rata.....

[slm]

If I could decide the plane set just for personal reasons, I'd add at least one "crap plane" for both sides in every game.

So some old models, like I-16 for Russians and Hs-123 for Germans. Fiat G-50 for Italy, Gloster Gladiator or Fairey Swordfish for British.

 

No idea if those are commercially good picks, but I liked many early war missions in IL2.

[DD_fruitbat]

i16 is no crap plane!

 

How dare you!!!!!

 

[Uufflakke]

Poor little unloved rata.....

 

 

It is my favourite early Russian bird.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYKD4oD49l4

Edited July 28, 2013 by Uufflakke

[FTC_Karaya]

I did some minor research on the internets and am changing my eight plane dream set. I'd say Kuban for theater and the planes could be:

1. P39

2. P40

3. Hurricane

4. A20

5. Yak 9

6. Bf 110

7. Ju 88

8. Fw 190 A4

 

Good mix for both sides, lend lease, and an excellent Russian fighter. Could be good......................so, I'm gonna repost this on another theater thread as well

 

You are missing the Bf109 completely, the workhorse of the Luftwaffe fighter arm on the Eastern front, the FW190 never set as much a foot in there as on the Western Front. Leaving out the Messerschmitt is like leaving out the Spitfire in Western Europe, therefore any eastern front scenario without it IMHO is senseless.

As in the context of the original thread question, I'd personally go for the P-40 for the time being, simply because the P-39 did not really see much service before 1943 in the East whereas the P-40 did. I would therefore wait with the P-39 until we move into 1943 and beyond...

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I suppose he refers to aircraft which are yet not available in BoS. But the Emil would be missing anyway

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I have no problem with adding some of the early war (as opposed to "crap") models as well. So, let's add the I16 to the premium Kuban release.

 

I was thinking:

 

a: expansion capabilities

b: the next likely theater

c: aircraft not previously available

d: commercially viable - *important

e: not adding the spit until North Africa. Keeping it in reserve for the, '"wow," factor for a future release.

f: plane packs

[WildBlueYonder]

American-built Lend-Lease aircraft and earlier Soviet fighters and bombers could also open up a possibility of introducing the Winter War and Continuation War into the game. I'd love to see Curtiss H.75s, Morane MS.406s and Fokker D.XXIs fighting it out with LaGGs, SB-2s and Ishaks.

[Hunziker]

Lol, I think we should do a petition.

 

I so enjoyed my (admittedly) little patch of sky in that little aircraft-even when it was porked later on ,I still remember tempting the 109's down by pretending I was a rookie then somehow managing to shoot one whilst the wingman was sitting there in shock....memories. of  hyperlobby and the VEF wars..........

[76SQN-J0NJ0N]

Early war would be sweet, but a Spanish Civil war expansion would be sweetest of all. Quite a few of the planes could make up early war missions and it would bridge the gap between RoF and BoS nicely.

[LukeFF]

Thing is, no one really cares or knows much about the Spanish Civil War. That, and since so many of the aircraft went on to serve just a short time later, it's not exactly a compelling theater to model.

[76SQN-J0NJ0N]

Thing is, no one really cares or knows much about the Spanish Civil War. That, and since so many of the aircraft went on to serve just a short time later, it's not exactly a compelling theater to model.

 

Very true, and I don't expect it to happen, but it would be fun to give biplanes and open cockpit fighters one last hurrah..

[WklinkTomCofield]

The Rata is probably the more important aircraft to add to this game.  Yeah, it is hopelessly outclassed by the Bf109F4 and G2 but many were still being used during early part of Case Blue. 

 

The Hs129 would be nice as well.  Still think the JU52 is extremely important in the game, more so than even the Rata considering the time period. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

The Kuban theatre is extremely interesting to me but I bet for mass marketability that the Battle of Kursk would be a next logical step for the series if they are to continue the Eastern Front battle. Kuban and Crimea are interesting but something of a sideshow (despite the absolutely massive dogfights and general combat that took place) compared to the turning point that Kursk is. Kursk is also better known. Either way we'd be adding to the stable of aircraft but maybe not the lend lease types that people were hoping for.

[Sunde]

well:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/745-poll-what-soviet-lend-lease-fighter-are-you-looking-forward/

 

the P-39 ( wich is my favorite L&L fighter) does not fit to the Stalingrad scenario, but after the developers decided to ad the Fw190 , that also does not fit, all is possible i guess......

Are you sure the FW-190 wasnt flying in that time part of the world during ww2? =P

[ShamrockOneFive]

Are you sure the FW-190 wasnt flying in that time part of the world during ww2? =P

The first of the Eastern Front FW190s were located a few hundred kilometres north at Vyazma (closer to Moscow) during the winter part of the Stalingrad battle. Up to that point, pretty much all Luftwaffe fighter squadrons were flying Bf109s of some variant. The FW190 made a much earlier appearance in the West.

[Freycinet]

Big sales of BoS = Lots of exciting Theatres and planes in the future :-)

 

Anyway, since the next sim in the Il-2 line will be the Med I am pretty sure we'll see the Hurri and the P-40 :-D

[Bearcat]

 

Big sales of BoS = Lots of exciting Theatres and planes in the future :-)

 

Anyway, since the next sim in the Il-2 line will be the Med I am pretty sure we'll see the Hurri and the P-40 :-D

 

 

 

Where'd you get that from.. ? Just curious.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Where'd you get that from.. ? Just curious.

 

+1

 

Pretty speculative IMHO.

[Rodolphe]

...

 

There were no Hurricanes or P-40s in theater during the announced time frame for BoS - this was pointed out in a couple other threads. The best lend lease option would be an A-20 variant - that is if the developers follow their own time line. Whether they do or not maybe in question since the "Fw 190 A-3" was announced as a "special" plane for premium buyers. There were no Fw 190s at Stalingrad either.

 

 

FYI

 

From the Book Stalingrad, the Air Battle by Christer Bergström

 

Chapter : Improvising an Airlift

 

Hptm. Johannes Steinhoff, II./JG 52's Grupenkommandeur, knocked down two Yak-1s fot his 115th and 116th victories during his first mission early on 30 November(1) .

Meanwhile, Oblt. Gerhrad Barkhorn, 4./JG 52's Staffelkapitän, brought down a P-40, a Yak-1 and a "LaGG" (LaGG-3 or La-5) for his 83rd through 85th victories (2).

A few hours later, Steinhoff was in the air again and bounced a Yak-1 which was flying with two P-40s and shot down the Yak and one of the P-40s,

leaving the remaining P-40 to be destroyed by his wingman, Ofw. Reinhardt.

 

(1) Johannes Steinhoff, Logbook.

(2) Gerhrad Barkhorn, Logbook.

(3) Via Johannes Steinhoff.

 

 

Chapter : Winter Storm and Little Saturn

 

The elite 9 GIAP managed well in the air fighting on 17 December, claiming two Bf 109s, two Bf 110s, an He 111 and an Fw 189 shot down - of which all but a Bf 109 can be confirmed through Luftwaffe loss files.

But less experienced Soviet air units fared worse. JG 3, which through the arrival of its II. Gruppe was united for the first time in several months, claimed 27 Soviet aircraft shot down on 17 December.

Five of these were filed by Hptm. Kurt Brändle, II./JG 3's Gruppenkommandeur, and the Geschwaderkommodore, Major Wolf-Dietrich Wilcke, surpassed his150 victory mark by bagging three.

In II./JG 52, Hptm. Johannes Steinhoff shot down a P-40 and a Yak-1 for his 132nd ans 133rd kills, and Ollt. Grehard Barkhorn achieved his 95th through 97th.

 

 

http://www.battleofbritainaviationart.com/battle_of_britain_aces.php?PilotID=77

 

http://www.cieldegloire.com/001_barkhorn_g.php

 

http://www.cieldegloire.com/001_steinhoff_j.php

 

...

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rodolphe

[SYN_Ricky]

We should still consider that they might have mis-identified their victims...but I thought that some P-40s were at Stalingrad...

 

I don't have BC/RS at hand right now to see if there's a VVS OOB for the period, to check.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

"Claims" are “Claims” not infallible truth - you can go here, "Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties Lists":

 

http://lesbutler.co.uk/claims/tonywood.htm

 

and download these files (PDF):

 

Eastern Front Vol 2. Aug to Dec 1942

 

and

 

Eastern Front Vol 2. Jan to Jun 1943

 

and read official claims filed by the Luftwaffe. However, that doesn't mean a pilot claiming to have shot down a certain plane type is not in error - it happened all the time. You see can see that easy enough in those PDF files.

 

Instead of looking for "claims" as a form of “verification” it would be better if you could find an actual and verifiable orbat that shows P-40s, or P-39s, of P-38s, or Spitfires, or Hurricanes (or whatever) in theater, and in service, during the announced time frame and combat area for BOS.

 

I don't care if they are added to the game or not – but historically they were not there – just like the Fw 190 A-3.

 

Wotan

[I-WVoss]

Well I would also add the Macchi 200 of 22 Terrestrial Fighter Group of the Royal Italian Air Force based on the airport of Stalino.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.200

 

it can affect us in the CAM together with the Italian Community Italianwing we can give all the technical data, through the Italian Air Force Museum.

 

Voss

Edited August 2, 2013 by =CAM=CAMVoss

[Foobar]

Anyway, since the next sim in the Il-2 line will be the Med

:O where?

[I-WVoss]

The latest addition would be the Italian fighter Macchi 202 who worked with the 21 Fighter Group Earth.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.202

 

Voss

[Volkoff]

While I will buy any and all add-ons, in order to support the ongoing development of the United Team's efforts, I too would like to see Soviet adapted P-39's and the P-40, included in the future. Unfortunately, I may not get to see the P-39 added on the Stalingrad map, (or maybe I will?) but there seems to be a pretty good chance of getting the P-40 included. The P-40 seems like a ride for WW2 multipayer flight sim experten. This is my first WW2 multiplayer experience and I feel that the Yak 1 will prove to be a significant and rewarding challenge for me. Some of you have more experience in this area of flight simulation and the P-40 may prove to be a good challenge for you. As with any add-on, Soviet/ lend lease or Axis, I will certainly buy the P-40 when the United Team makes the P-40 available.

 

 MJ

Edited August 5, 2013 by MishaJames

[MineFewer]

P-39 is a no-brainer, as that was the VVS fighter in the IL-2 demo.  Inconceivable that there aren't already plans to have it in the next list of A/C.

[Bearcat]

P-39 is a no-brainer, as that was the VVS fighter in the IL-2 demo.  Inconceivable that there aren't already plans to have it in the next list of A/C.

 

Yeah I was thinking that too..