Irishratticus72 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 11:04 AM, Wardog5711 said: I would 100% agree with you if it had just drifted over with the prevailing winds. But it did not. It entered US airspace and passes over some defense facilities in Alaska. It then changes course to fly over Canada and head straight for the missile launch facilities in Montana. Where it loitered for over a day. It then proceeds to fly South East to pass over Whiteman AFB in Missouri where the stealth bombers are based before changing course to pass near the Savanah river nuclear facility as it heads out to sea over the Atlantic. Just a poor weather balloon, lost and adrift on the wind. All of those have no doubt been photographed from space before, so using a balloon at low altitude was a message and probably a test. It was meant to be seen. Recovering the wreckage might help find out what that test was. As for the shootdown, the video that DBFlyguy posted gives a pretty good analysis of why a missile was used vs. the cannon. We've a Chinese guy in work, "It's a scientific flight".
Wardog5711 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 Quote "It's a scientific flight" Well, I have to agree that there was some pretty scientific stuff going on to allow that thing to constantly shift course to end up over critical military installations.? 2
Jaws2002 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, busdriver said: I have to say my first instinct was that we should have shot it down immediately. Then I started thinking logically about what a great intelligence collection and counter intelligence opportunity this was. Plus I acknowledged the "greater than zero" chance that the debris might kill somebody once it entered the lower 48 states. If we shot it down off the coast of Alaska in really deep water salvage efforts (for intelligence purposes) would be problematic. Shoot it down over mountains in the middle of winter, you'd face similar issues with challenging albeit different debris fields. Shooting it down into the relatively warm and shallow (50 feet or so) waters off South Carolina where salvage ops will be much easier sounds pretty smart to me. Having days for USAF ELINT assets to loiter around the balloon sniffing for stuff like burst transmissions and frequency agility, and acquire high resolution imagery of the target as it "wanders about" is a pretty smart tactic IMO. With plenty of advanced warning, we had ample time to elevate EMCON procedures as it wandered over strategic assets. Seems like a no-brainer counter tactic. I don't know how you determine if our EMCON was effective. Bottom line, we had plenty of time to mitigate Chinese intelligence collection over probable targets. We had lots of time to conduct counter intelligence against a functioning asset without fear of Chinese interference. And we brought down the asset in a fairly benign location without fear of collateral damage where the recovery of the asset will be much easier. Oh common man. This was a major screwup. They were floating that balloon over multiple sensitive military sites. It scanned the entirety of the country, from one end to another and you are telling me that USA got more from scanning a bloody balloon, than what the Chinese got from scanning half the country? They shot down, two more objects since then and they didn't wait for them to get to the Atlantic. Don't be naïve. They just fu**ed up.
=FEW=fernando11 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 How exactly do you know the baloon managed to send the dats back to the guys controlling it? If you are sure it did then yes, its a failure of the US military complex. But if you dont know/it didnt, then it can plausibly be a win for the US inteligence service.
BraveSirRobin Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said: Oh common man. This was a major screwup. They were floating that balloon over multiple sensitive military sites. It scanned the entirety of the country, from one end to another and you are telling me that USA got more from scanning a bloody balloon, than what the Chinese got from scanning half the country? They shot down, two more objects since then and they didn't wait for them to get to the Atlantic. Don't be naïve. They just fu**ed up. I’m curious how you determined what sort of data the balloon was able to collect as it slowly moved across the country?
Wardog5711 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 I'm trying to find the podcast I saw about it on Youtube, but one report stated that some of the wreckage appeared to contain electronic signals gathering equipment. Just analyzing the RF spectrum over a sensitive area gives you an idea of what type of activity is going on. Even if you don't capture the actual data being transmitted, you can pretty much tell what type of data it is by where it is in the spectrum. As the world rushes headlong to go 'wireless' with everything, knowing what frequency bands are active makes it easy to shut them down later if you want to. In my previous job, the RF 'mapping' was the first thing we did at a potential job site so that we knew what might be causing us interference (or us causing it to others) when we positioned our antennas.
Jaws2002 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, =FEW=fernando11 said: How exactly do you know the baloon managed to send the dats back to the guys controlling it? If you are sure it did then yes, its a failure of the US military complex. But if you dont know/it didnt, then it can plausibly be a win for the US inteligence service. It's a foreign object, from a country not friendly to USA, that flew over the entire length of the country, for almost a week, without permission. It could have dropped a nuke, It could have set off an EMP, it could have released a bunch of chemical or biological agents. There was no win for USA here. Just monumental failure. But we live in a day and age when we promote and congratulate criminals and incompetent morons, based on the color of their hair, or sexual preferences. So I'm not surprised. 3 3
Vishnu Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) …..and we still trade with them because we’re addicted to the cheap dog **** we buy at the dollar store. ? Edited February 13, 2023 by Vishnu
Wardog5711 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 Yes, an own goal shared by pretty much the entire 'western world'. But it can't be undone at this point. All we can do is take care of ourselves and our families to the best of our abilities. AND... with that, we are starting to drift into dangerous waters with this thread. Lets all do our best to keep to the technical aspects of the topic at hand and avoid going down the politics rabbit hole. Myself included.
busdriver Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jaws2002 said: Oh common man. This was a major screwup. They were floating that balloon over multiple sensitive military sites. It scanned the entirety of the country, from one end to another and you are telling me that USA got more from scanning a bloody balloon, than what the Chinese got from scanning half the country? They shot down, two more objects since then and they didn't wait for them to get to the Atlantic. Don't be naïve. They just fu**ed up. You think in terms of checkers, the professional military thinks in term of chess. Hyperbolic wailing and gnashing of teeth aside, I’ll take this as an intelligence win. Don’t care in the least if you believe it, your mind is made up. Edited February 13, 2023 by busdriver added WaPo graphic 3
Lusekofte Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 Well there is the aspect of why the Chinese did this. They were fully aware their balloon would be discovered and probably shot down. Do they expect the rest of the world to believe their victimised attitude to all this, or just their allies and friends? I have no clue what’s in their mind, some very few years ago I believed leaders with their advisors would not be stupid. But what happens when a despot sit too long? Do they think they always right and stupid ? happens. Is there a strategy behind all this? Or is it stupidity we are witnessing? I am not sure
Trooper117 Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 The Chinese are gathering information, they are also testing the US in it's ability to track different objects, responses, etc... they as usual will deny any wrong doing etc...
CountZero Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 2 hours ago, busdriver said: You think in terms of checkers, the professional military thinks in term of chess. Hyperbolic wailing and gnashing of teeth aside, I’ll take this as an intelligence win. Don’t care in the least if you believe it, your mind is made up. Im sure History channel will have whole seasons about this UFOs for next decades to come ? 2
busdriver Posted February 13, 2023 Posted February 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, Lusekofte said: But what happens when a despot sit too long? Do they think they always right and stupid ? happens. Is there a strategy behind all this? Or is it stupidity we are witnessing? I am not sure Xi rules in a vacuum, he has purged the Chinese government of potential rivals. This was a stupid act by an underling. The recent demotion of the principal mouthpiece to their "Wolf Warrior" foreign policy has been interpreted as Xi trying to reduce tensions with the US. The cancellation of Blinken's official visit is considered a setback for Xi.
Guest deleted@83466 Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 Personally, I think the Vulcans are really pissed off right now. They are less than pleased about the shoot-down of ambassador Sareks’s shuttlecraft. They have postponed first contact for at least another 100 years.
Wardog5711 Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 I blame the Romulans. They did it to drive a wedge between us and the Vulcans. 1
cardboard_killer Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 Finally, Les Nessman's emergency plan can be used without modification. 1
Bonnot Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 How much human mind had improved in almost a century ......? October 1938 : the famous broadcasting which frightened part of the US radio audience and launched Orson Welles !
DEDMANcjp Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 Revenge of Balloon Boy. He's back and not alone
jollyjack Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Wardog5711 said: Mistery solved .. : 3
Wardog5711 Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 Proof that with the correct amount of thrust, you can make anything fly.
Irishratticus72 Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 8 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said: Proof that with the correct amount of thrust, you can make anything fly. 1 2
Trooper117 Posted February 14, 2023 Posted February 14, 2023 4 hours ago, Irishratticus72 said: Great pic!
ST_Catchov Posted February 15, 2023 Posted February 15, 2023 There's the proof right there! It's no damn balloon! Taken by a smart phone on an extended selfie stick on an Air Wisconsin flight. Verified by Fox News as genuine footage. 4 1
jollyjack Posted February 15, 2023 Posted February 15, 2023 The Fox is out there ! https://www.foxnews.com/category/topic/aliens
Bilbo_Baggins Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 How they were able to maneuver the balloon is the biggest question I have. How was that thing able to be steered across Canada and USA? How do you maneuver a balloon? I don't think we'll ever know as the wreckage has got to be unsalvageable since the F-22 shot it down into the sea. I think they should have used the 20mm cannon instead of the AIM-9X missile.
ST_Catchov Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Bilbo_Baggins said: How they were able to maneuver the balloon is the biggest question I have. It is the power of The Ring Bilbo. Use it wisely. Smith. 2
Trooper117 Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 The only ring I know is 'The Ring of Fire', usually after a very hot curry...
Lusekofte Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 Anyone checked where Grand tour is making next episode? I wonder if Jeremy and co might be part of this story
jollyjack Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/13/2023 at 4:41 PM, FlyingShark said: Somebody should make a list with all balloons that have been shot down the last few weeks. I got six last night ... .. 2
Wardog5711 Posted February 17, 2023 Posted February 17, 2023 Quote I got six last night That makes you an ace, pending the review of the pubs security cam or wingman confirmation. 1 2
1CGS LukeFF Posted February 17, 2023 1CGS Posted February 17, 2023 https://notthebee.com/article/one-of-those-ufos-the-air-force-spent-400000-shooting-down-might-have-been-a-12-hobby-baloon ????♂️ 1
Wardog5711 Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 An interesting view of the balloon taken from one of the U-2's shadowing it. The U-2's shadow is visible on the balloon as it passes over it. Payload detail: 5 1 4
Wardog5711 Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 OK, it's Friday. Lets all take a deep breath and relax. And back to the topic of balloons: 1
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