Control Binding - Really Poorly Organized?

[SailorJerrys]

Hey guys,

 

I feel like the key bindings page is in dire need of a full redesign... Am I alone here? I just spent awhile binding up my Virpil stuff and there are a lot of controls to bind, and if I want to make it as universal as possible, there are a lot of things to bind. And not everything is really clear... Plus, there's just a lot to look through and sometimes things aren't completely clear as to what they really pertain to.

For example, weapon groups- I'm under the impression that group 1 is typically machine guns, 2 is cannons and 3 is for specialty weapons, gun-pods and the like. But why not find a way to separate them better? DCS does it by separating aircraft so that each one has a specific set up. Obviously hard to do with war-birds, but there has to be a better way than how it is now. It just feels so clumsy and awkward... Maybe it's just cause there's a LOT to bind.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts and maybe we can help the devs get some ideas to try to clean it up and make it a little more intuitive and user friendly..!

Always for a better game!

[JG27*PapaFly]

2 hours ago, SailorJerrys said:

Hey guys,

 

I feel like the key bindings page is in dire need of a full redesign... Am I alone here? I just spent awhile binding up my Virpil stuff and there are a lot of controls to bind, and if I want to make it as universal as possible, there are a lot of things to bind. And not everything is really clear... Plus, there's just a lot to look through and sometimes things aren't completely clear as to what they really pertain to.

For example, weapon groups- I'm under the impression that group 1 is typically machine guns, 2 is cannons and 3 is for specialty weapons, gun-pods and the like. But why not find a way to separate them better? DCS does it by separating aircraft so that each one has a specific set up. Obviously hard to do with war-birds, but there has to be a better way than how it is now. It just feels so clumsy and awkward... Maybe it's just cause there's a LOT to bind.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts and maybe we can help the devs get some ideas to try to clean it up and make it a little more intuitive and user friendly..!

Always for a better game!

I share your frustration.  A lot of potential improvements come to my mind when I look at key bindings. First off, since cockpits are not clickable, and we have such a wide variety of vehicles (tanks, single and multi-engine planes from two world wars), we are in danger of running out of keys we can bind AND memorize.

 

I'm sure there's potential for simplification. We have plenty of controls which in essence do the same thing e.g. water radiator and coolant flaps settings,  trim settings.

 

An option to search for a specific binding would be great.

 

Even better would be at searchable tool which would enable us to bind, but also to execute these commands. This would come in handy with seldomly used commands, which are difficult to memorize.

 

The way the game interrogates for keyboard inputs is unreliable compared to what the OS does.

 

Following dvanced input options would help a lot:

- input sequence (e.g. press the same button several times to toggle different commands, like red, green, white, and no flare)

- long vs short key press

- single vs double click

 

I use all of the above via autohotkey scripts, but not everybody can do that.

[SailorJerrys]

13 hours ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

I share your frustration.  A lot of potential improvements come to my mind when I look at key bindings. First off, since cockpits are not clickable, and we have such a wide variety of vehicles (tanks, single and multi-engine planes from two world wars), we are in danger of running out of keys we can bind AND memorize.

 

I'm sure there's potential for simplification. We have plenty of controls which in essence do the same thing e.g. water radiator and coolant flaps settings,  trim settings.

 

An option to search for a specific binding would be great.

 

Even better would be at searchable tool which would enable us to bind, but also to execute these commands. This would come in handy with seldomly used commands, which are difficult to memorize.

 

The way the game interrogates for keyboard inputs is unreliable compared to what the OS does.

 

Following dvanced input options would help a lot:

- input sequence (e.g. press the same button several times to toggle different commands, like red, green, white, and no flare)

- long vs short key press

- single vs double click

 

I use all of the above via autohotkey scripts, but not everybody can do that.

You bring up a good point, as well, in regard to executing the commands. The one thing that would be extremely useful is either a debug screen that tells you what the switch/button you're pressing is doing (DCS does this by highlighting the command that you pressed when you press it. If you have button A bound to Flaps Down, it would highlight 'Flaps Down' when you press the button.)

As for autohotkey scripts... That's a bit much for me, but I definitely understand what you're saying. And IL-2 1946 does the generic water rad/oil rad/cowl/rpm etc, very well, since it's generic keybinds to cover all planes, but they still function differently from each other. I don't get why they all need to be a specific keybind (I know you can bind them to the same keys, but why do they need different names if they do the same/or a similar function?)

It's just so messy...

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, SailorJerrys said:

You bring up a good point, as well, in regard to executing the commands. The one thing that would be extremely useful is either a debug screen that tells you what the switch/button you're pressing is doing (DCS does this by highlighting the command that you pressed when you press it. If you have button A bound to Flaps Down, it would highlight 'Flaps Down' when you press the button.)
 

‘That sort of feature isn’t possible in GB, because a single button can be set up for multiple commands.  You can’t do that in DCS.  If you want to see what a button does just assign it to a function.  If that button is already assigned you will see an orange icon with a tool tip that will let you know what other function thing button is currently assigned to.

[SailorJerrys]

That's true, I hadn't actually considered that.

[BraveSirRobin]

One thing they could do is put something like a “display function” box on the screen.  If you move the cursor over the box and hit a button then it does something similar to the multiple function tool tip.  But since there is already a pretty simple workaround, I’ll be surprised if they do anything like that.

[SailorJerrys]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:12 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

One thing they could do is put something like a “display function” box on the screen.  If you move the cursor over the box and hit a button then it does something similar to the multiple function tool tip.  But since there is already a pretty simple workaround, I’ll be surprised if they do anything like that.

Wait, what is the work around? The tool tip you mentioned?

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, SailorJerrys said:

Wait, what is the work around? The tool tip you mentioned?

yes

[von_Tom]

I don’t share your frustration, or at least I can never remember sharing it. 
 

There are some oddities but once you’ve figured those out the rest is easy. You can use a single binding for multiple commands (dive brakes and siren spring to mind that are used simultaneously) but the rest are pretty much set then left alone. 
 

I suppose you could do that on a plane-by-plane basis but what a bore that would be. 
 

I’ve just started flying DCS and it isn’t really a great example as the number of systems are so much greater that some assistance is helpful for the less used commands. 
 

If anything DCS is worse as you have to use a single command for each cockpit function (apart from those that allow on/off) and most of the time you have to research to find out what the command is for and what it does. A very different beast. 
 

I’m guessing that to set up commands for a single DCS aircraft will take longer than to set up everything for GB. It’d probably take longer than downloading and installing GB and setting up the controls.  ?

 

von Tom

[Tonester]

i have all different bindings for different ac and use a virtual kneeboard app that shows a picture of my key bindings in the top lhs of screen when i move my head in that direction ( i can turn it off and on manually as well)…works really well…im in vr so i cant just have a piece of paper in front of me with all my key mappings on it…i think its called openkneeboard or some such…am away working at moment so cant check my pc sorry

[SailorJerrys]

19 hours ago, von_Tom said:

I’ve just started flying DCS and it isn’t really a great example as the number of systems are so much greater that some assistance is helpful for the less used commands. 

 

If anything DCS is worse as you have to use a single command for each cockpit function (apart from those that allow on/off) and most of the time you have to research to find out what the command is for and what it does. A very different beast. 
 

I’m guessing that to set up commands for a single DCS aircraft will take longer than to set up everything for GB. It’d probably take longer than downloading and installing GB and setting up the controls.  ?

 

von Tom

If I'm totally honest... I actually find DCS easier, but to be fair that's mainly because I know what I need to have bound, and they're on a plane-by-plane basis, which makes it much easier since if you know what you need to have bound for convenience or for combat effectiveness, you know what to bind up.

 

For example, the F-18 has a lot of HOTAS controls that are specifically sorted into the HOTAS controls category, and they're all things that are ON the joysticks themselves, on the actual aircraft. So you just need to know what you want to bind them to.

 

But yes, it's just a little daunting on IL-2 because there's 5 different inputs for 'radiators' since some planes have inlet cowls, outlet cowls, and an oil radiator. Me and a friend both opened the game after ages of not playing and both of us upgrading from old flight sticks and realizing how much we had to/could bind up.

 

I'm all set up now and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I still have to make some adjustments............

13 hours ago, Tonester said:

i have all different bindings for different ac and use a virtual kneeboard app that shows a picture of my key bindings in the top lhs of screen when i move my head in that direction ( i can turn it off and on manually as well)…works really well…im in vr so i cant just have a piece of paper in front of me with all my key mappings on it…i think its called openkneeboard or some such…am away working at moment so cant check my pc sorry

And yeah, I don't fly in VR, but I've got a nice little diagram drawn up that I leave on my other screen. I only have to look at it occasionally, and eventually I won't even need to look at it. I might resort to OpenKneeboard or something similar to just open it with a command on my main screen briefly, sometime.

 

Cheers!

[SharpeXB]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:30 AM, SailorJerrys said:

But yes, it's just a little daunting on IL-2 because there's 5 different inputs for 'radiators' since some planes have inlet cowls, outlet cowls, and an oil radiator. Me and a friend both opened the game after ages of not playing and both of us upgrading from old flight sticks and realizing how much we had to/could bind up.

Yeah that is a bit daunting. I only know from experience which applies to which aircraft but a newcomer would have no idea. I don’t think it’s explained anywhere either. There’s a spec section under tutorials and the system guide in the menu you can bring up, but it doesn’t easily explain which commands do what. 

On 1/30/2023 at 3:52 PM, SailorJerrys said:

The one thing that would be extremely useful is either a debug screen that tells you what the switch/button you're pressing is doing

You can use the Technochat for this. But you have to use an aircraft with that particular command. 

[LukeFF]

Hopefully this sort of thing will receive some attention in the future. Having played MSFS for about 2 months now, I have to say it is far, far easier there to find out what commands are bound to each controller and to find commands with the search box.

[JimTM]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah that is a bit daunting. I only know from experience which applies to which aircraft but a newcomer would have no idea. I don’t think it’s explained anywhere either. There’s a spec section under tutorials and the system guide in the menu you can bring up, but it doesn’t easily explain which commands do what. 

You can use the Technochat for this. But you have to use an aircraft with that particular command. 

 

See User Manual About Keybindings (by pa4tim), which is under "Game Guides" in the IL-2 Sturmovik Resources post. There's a few other links re. keybinds nearby in the Resources post.