Going from 3090 to 4090.

[dburne]

Wooohoo - finally after weeks of trying I have managed to snag a Gigabyte 4090 GPU at MSRP and it will be here tomorrow. Kept checking NowIn Stock - I was not quick enough on the first drop I saw on an Asus card - by time I got to checkout it was gone. Then I saw the Gigabyte show up and grabbed that puppy really quick - both were from NewEgg at MSRP.(no scalpers)

 

Going to be interesteing to see what gains I get out of it over my currently EVGA 3090 GPU. Based on reports I have seen I expect decent.

Edited January 9, 2023 by dburne

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

Let us know how to get great images with the current CPUs..single thread....limitations.....?

Edited January 9, 2023 by CDRSEABEE
spelling

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, CDRSEABEE said:

Let us know how to get great images with the current CPUs..single thread....limitations.....?

 

No sure what you mean by images but will gladly share my perception of any improvements over my 3090 on my current i9 9900k at 5.1 GHz. No desire to do benchmarking.

New rig will come next, I was planning for around the end of this year first of next year, but circumstances have changed a liltle so may be sooner even.

Edited January 9, 2023 by dburne

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

Wooohoo - finally after weeks of trying I have managed to snag a Gigabyte 4090 GPU at MSRP and it will be here tomorrow. Kept checking NowIn Stock - I was not quick enough on the first drop I saw on an Asus card - by time I got to checkout it was gone. Then I saw the Gigabyte show up and grabbed that puppy really quick - both were from NewEgg at MSRP.(no scalpers)

 

Going to be interesteing to see what gains I get out of it over my currently EVGA 3090 GPU. Based on reports I have seen I expect decent.

I was looking for the MSI RTX 4090 Suprim but ended up settling for a Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC and am very pleased with it. Has not missed a beat and the fans only need to come on during intensive games, so, very quiet. The Gigabyte was 20% cheaper than the MSI as well here in Australia.

I also like the GPU bracket solution, that attaches to existing ATX form motherboard screws that Gigabyte provide.

Based on the software (Userbenchmark) I used for simple graphics testing, the GPU score went from 250 to 450 so a large improvement.

As per the recent reported  issues with RTX 4090 power socket overheating, make sure the power cable is fitted correctly to the GPU and is not excessively bent.
I use a Lian Li, Mesh 2 PC case. For horizontal GPU mounting, I found the PC case glass side access wall/ window was too close to the top of the GPU to allow the power cable to be safely connected without excessive bending.

Options were to:
1. Run it without the side panel
2. get a larger PC Case

3. Add a wooden frame to the side of the existing case to increase the internal space of the PC case.

I, of course, went for option 3. and increased the space for the power cable by another 50mm (2 inches). It was very fiddly to set up and took a day to get everything fitting tightly/ snug but I am very happy with the results. 

P.S. Doing a vertical GPU mount may be an option for many but I had an issue with trying to do this with the original 3090 that was fitted to the case where the Lian Li supplied mount was faulty. Did not want to repeat that experience so vertical mount was off the table for me.
A vertical mount GPU also blocked off access to the motherboard CMOS reset pins which would have been very inconvenient as sometimes my 'tinkering' with BIOS settings leads to blue screens etc.

Edited January 9, 2023 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
Comment on vertical mount GPU, clarity comments

[Voyager]

Been watching the stock trackers, but won't be able to even try to buy until February. (Bunch of travel, and don't want a box sitting on the porch for a week.)

 

Probably going to aim for one of the MSI liquid models. Those seem to stay in stock the longest and I've got a case with an extra radiator mount, so it's an easy fit for me. 

 

Not sure it will get me much for Il-2, I'm already running around 60-90fps and for whatever reason I can't seem to get Steam VR to change pixel scaling, but it is not the only VR sim I'm running. 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

I was looking for the MSI RTX 4090 Suprim but ended up settling for a Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC and am very pleased with it. Has not missed a beat and the fans only need to come on during intensive games, so, very quiet. The Gigabyte was 20% cheaper than the MSI as well here in Australia.

I also like the GPU bracket solution, that attaches to existing ATX form motherboard screws that Gigabyte provide.

Based on the software (Userbenchmark) I used for simple graphics testing, the GPU score went from 250 to 450 so a large improvement.

As per the recent reported  issues with RTX 4090 power socket overheating, make sure the power cable is fitted correctly to the GPU and is not excessively bent.
I use a Lian Li, Mesh 2 PC case. For horizontal GPU mounting, I found the PC case glass side access wall/ window was too close to the top of the GPU to allow the power cable to be safely connected without excessive bending.

Options were to:
1. Run it without the side panel
2. get a larger PC Case

3. Add a wooden frame to the side of the existing case to increase the internal space of the PC case.

I, of course, went for option 3. and increased the space for the power cable by another 50mm (2 inches). It was very fiddly to set up and took a day to get everything fitting tightly/ snug but I am very happy with the results. 

P.S. Doing a vertical GPU mount may be an option for many but I had an issue with trying to do this with the original 3090 that was fitted to the case where the Lian Li supplied mount was faulty. Did not want to repeat that experience so vertical mount was off the table for me.
A vertical mount GPU also blocked off access to the motherboard CMOS reset pins which would have been very inconvenient as sometimes my 'tinkering' with BIOS settings leads to blue screens etc.

 

Thanks for the awesome feedback. I have lot of doc appts tomorrow so don't know if I will get this installed then or Wed. Hoping to be able to check it out later tomorrow afternoon will just have to see how the day goes. I have a very large - EVGA DG87 full tower case - should be plenty of room in that puppy with no worries. The GPU bracket sounds great - I have a GPU sag stand under my 3090 but will be nice to have something mounted to hold it level. Yeah I have been reading about the power supply issues and will be extra careful there to insure no bends in bad places.

The MSI Suprim was my first choice as well but never did see them come into stock anywhere.

 

[DBCOOPER011]

I have the Gigabyte 4090 OC also, awesome video card! I usually run my video cards with a waterblock, but decided not to this time as it runs extremely cool stock. I max out around 60C.

 

This thing is big though, might want to measure you case for width...

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

5 hours ago, Voyager said:

Been watching the stock trackers, but won't be able to even try to buy until February. (Bunch of travel, and don't want a box sitting on the porch for a week.)

 

Probably going to aim for one of the MSI liquid models. Those seem to stay in stock the longest and I've got a case with an extra radiator mount, so it's an easy fit for me. 

 

Not sure it will get me much for Il-2, I'm already running around 60-90fps and for whatever reason I can't seem to get Steam VR to change pixel scaling, but it is not the only VR sim I'm running. 

Pretty sure 60 fps will be a thing of the past once you have fitted a RTX 4090....

I get 89 - 90 fps in the Varjo Aero at 37 ppd and MSAA x 2.

Get very very rare micro-stutters in say the Normandy map when flying low into large towns. Apart from that, it is a very smooth flying experience.
I have spent virtually no time trying to get more out of it as it comes with so much 'oomph' straight out of the box.

Also, while the card can push 600W, my 850W PSU only had three power cables available, for it, so I am power limited to 450W. Not really interested in running it any higher.

[dburne]

It has arrived. Going to go ahead and install it but will be tomorrow really before I get a chance to really check it out. Just want it in and ready to go for the morning.

 

[dburne]

 

 

 

[dburne]

Well I am fried tonight and lighting in my office ain't the greatest, going to wait and do it fresh in the morning when sun is up. Got everything ready and all software Presion X related uninstalled and out of appdata folders. Only thing left is removing the drivers with DDU and shutting her down to put the new card in.

It comes with a nice anti sag bracket that should mount easily it appears, and also a 4 year warranty which is nice. Not that I would actually keep it four years or more, after all I fly in VR LOL.

 

As far as my EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra goes? Yeah I could still sell it right now for a good buck, but no this time I am not going to do that. My grandson who could sorely use a better GPU is going to be the beneficiary of a nice gift from Grandpa. He does not know yet. Going to give this 4090 couple of weeks or so to make sure won't need the 3090, then spring it on him. I think he will be ecstatic.  He loves PC's but can not afford the top end at this time understandibly.

 

He will also be receiving my complete PC system whatever I am running at the time and all flight and racing sim controllers upon my passing whenever that is. Least I don't have to worry about my wife throwing it all in the trash LOL.

Edited January 11, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

So Intel has not released the 13900 KS just yet correct?

[dburne]

I think I will just wait now for the 14th Gen and new form factor MB.

[Customizer171]

6 minutes ago, dburne said:

I think I will just wait now for the 14th Gen and new form factor MB.

 

That's what you first said about the 4090 , that you would pass.

You have lost your credibility, hahaha ?

Just kidding with you!

I am sure it will be great.

[TheSNAFU]

5 minutes ago, Customizer171 said:

 

That's what you first said about the 4090 , that you would pass.

You have lost your credibility, hahaha ?

Just kidding with you!

I am sure it will be great.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing. What I know from my time here is that when dburne gets an itch for hardware he doesn’t let a lot of dust collect on his wallet!! ?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, TheSNAFU said:

LOL! I was thinking the same thing. What I know from my time here is that when dburne gets an itch for hardware he doesn’t let a lot of dust collect on his wallet!! ?

 

Lol that is true, pretty sure though this time I will wait for 14th Gen CPU.

[dburne]

Well gang I am going to tell ya this has not been a good experience for me. I have come to the hard realization I am older, mind is not what used to be (some issues there), and I seriously doubt I should consider doing any more build my owns after doing them for like 25 years. My next one I will likely order pre-built for me, after all I am half blind and that has it's own issues when trying to work with small parts.

 

It started with me managing somehow to lock myself out of computer, would not let me enter my pin and would not let me do anything else. After about an hour of frustration I finally was able to get it to boot into safe mode and able to choose advanced startup options. Ended up having to do a system restore, luckily I had a restore point from about 4:00 PM yesterday. And that is not even going into the trouble I had installing the GPU. I will spare you on those gory details.

 

Anyway the card it in and functioning, just installed the latest Nvidia display drivers clean. Now got to set up Nvidia Control Panel again. I am plum wore out so I seriously doubt I will be doing much more today, tomorrow sometime I will probably post how things are looking for me. I am literally fried now today. My mind is shot.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by dburne

[Dallas88B]

8 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Well gang I am going to tell ya this has not been a good experience for me. I have come to the hard realization I am older

 

Dont be harsh on yourself. Working with PCs everyone has the occasional bad experience and when the frustration builds its very stressful. These things are not as reliable and simple as vendors would have one believe. I recently spent the better part of a day (yes really) tracking down BSOD crashes with the stop code DRIVER VERIFIER DMA VIOLATION which turned out to be not caused by a driver problem at all. 
Sometimes these things just want to rear up and bite. 
Enjoy the 4090... I reckon that will be great for VR. 

[dburne]

Thanks - this thing is idleling at 0 fan speed and 45 degrees and my room is warm right now = 26C.

I feel dinner and a movie coming on for this evening, I need to relax the rest of the day. Been too uptight for too long today!

Edited January 11, 2023 by dburne

[kissTheSky]

3 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

Dont be harsh on yourself. Working with PCs everyone has the occasional bad experience and when the frustration builds its very stressful. These things are not as reliable and simple as vendors would have one believe. I recently spent the better part of a day (yes really) tracking down BSOD crashes with the stop code DRIVER VERIFIER DMA VIOLATION which turned out to be not caused by a driver problem at all. 
Sometimes these things just want to rear up and bite. 
Enjoy the 4090... I reckon that will be great for VR. 

Pretty much this. I’m dealing with a weird windows 11 crash issue just randomly keeps popping it’s head a week after I thought I solved it.
Take it easy

[dburne]

Wow just ran a Time Spy benchmark for a quick test for the card.

She is boosting to 2805 MHz with max GPU temp of 58C.

I will take it!

 

Off to bed, I am fried and exhausted (up since 3:00 am), tomorrow is a new day.

Edited January 12, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

I will say Nvidia needs their butt kicked for putting the power socket on the front side of the GPU rather than the rear of the card. My EVGA DG87 case was plenty big enough to accomodate without problem but it still looks ugly. And I am sure there are many that have cases that might not accomodate very nicely.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

18 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Lol that is true, pretty sure though this time I will wait for 14th Gen CPU.

I am here to muddle the issue.....

 

I am very impressed with the 5800X3D in IL2 and it also beats the 13900K in MSFS at 4K resolution.

Have not found a reliable site to clarify DCS performance with the 5800X3D so that is a bit of an unknown and I do not fly it.

I you are going to blow a substantial sum on an upgrade and fly a lot of IL2 or MSFS you should consider the soon to be released 7800X3D.
Supposed to be released on 14 Feb, so some reviews will be available by then.

 

My tests with the 5800x3D and fpsVR (with Aero at 39ppd and MSAA x 2 causing IL 2 fps to drop to low 80's fps) shows that it is the GPU that is hitting it's limits and not the CPU so it looks like I will be sticking wit the 5800x3D.
 

[dburne]

Just now, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

I am here to muddle the issue.....

 

I am very impressed with the 5800X3D in IL2 and it also beats the 13900K in MSFS at 4K resolution.

Have not found a reliable site to clarify DCS performance with the 5800X3D so that is a bit of an unknown and I do not fly it.

I you are going to blow a substantial sum on an upgrade and fly a lot of IL2 or MSFS you should consider the soon to be released 7800X3D.
Supposed to be released on 14 Feb, so some reviews will be available by then.

 

My tests with the 5800x3D and fpsVR (with Aero at 39ppd and MSAA x 2 causing IL 2 fps to drop to low 80's fps) shows that it is the GPU that is hitting it's limits and not the CPU so it looks like I will be sticking wit the 5800x3D.
 

 

Thanks much for the feedback I do appreciate it , however that is one I am unwilling to move on, going to stay with Intel. Kind of same way wife and I stick with Ford cars lol. Just a "me" thing.

[shirazjohn]

9 minutes ago, dburne said:

I will say Nvidia needs their butt kicked for putting the power socket on the front side of the GPU rather than the rear of the card. My EVGA DG87 case was plenty big enough to accomodate without problem but it still looks ugly. And I am sure there are many that have cases that might not accomodate very nicely.

I had the same problem with my 4080, i had to reroute all the cables just try and make it look half decent. It doesn't matter how big the case is its the depth that's the problem which is probably a standard dimension. Its very difficult not to have some sort of bend in the cable.

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

I had the same problem with my 4080, i had to reroute all the cables just try and make it look half decent. It doesn't matter how big the case is its the depth that's the problem which is probably a standard dimension. Its very difficult not to have some sort of bend in the cable.

 

Yeah I was careful there to make sure the bend was well below the plug.

[kissTheSky]

Silly me had just purchased an open box Dynamic O11 back in July and didn’t start putting the new system together till late November. So now, I have a brand new “small” case if I want to go to a 4090. Sigh. 

[BladeMeister]

On 1/9/2023 at 2:00 PM, dburne said:

 

No sure what you mean by images but will gladly share my perception of any improvements over my 3090 on my current i9 9900k at 5.1 GHz. No desire to do benchmarking.

New rig will come next, I was planning for around the end of this year first of next year, but circumstances have changed a liltle so may be sooner even.

Just do a firestrike benchtest with the 3090 before yanking it, screenshot the results. Then the same withe 4090 and then compare and show us what percentage difference you get. Don't change any thing else. Also note your temps with each test. That would be easy and very informative. Maybe list your whole system specs as well DB. I am sure plenty would be interested in seeing this comparison.

 

S!Blade<><

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

Just do a firestrike benchtest with the 3090 before yanking it, screenshot the results. Then the same withe 4090 and then compare and show us what percentage difference you get. Don't change any thing else. Also note your temps with each test. That would be easy and very informative. Maybe list your whole system specs as well DB. I am sure plenty would be interested in seeing this comparison.

 

S!Blade<><

 

Sorry 4090 is already in and after what I went through yesterday ( self inflicted) I sure ain't pulling it back out.

[dburne]

Ok so testing in DCS Spit Cold Start Channel Map, a mission I have been flying whilst I learn the Spit for the last couple of weeks.

My fps went from 40-50 fps with the 3090 to 65-75fps with the 4090. Frametimes down to 11-14 ms or so. Previously they were like 18-20 ms.Top GPU Temp whilst flying the mission was 52c.

I think I am going to be very pleased with this 4090. Think I will test Varjo Motion Reprojection now that I have a 4090 and see how it does - I know it is still in Beta at this time.

[TheSNAFU]

Damn, 25 fps increase. That’s better than I guessed with no other hardware changes. I’d say you are right, you’re going to be very happy with it. Looking forward to your performance report on il2. 

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, TheSNAFU said:

Damn, 25 fps increase. That’s better than I guessed with no other hardware changes. I’d say you are right, you’re going to be very happy with it. Looking forward to your performance report on il2. 

 

Ok will try to test soon but may be a couple of days, think I have to set up one of my controllers again for it.

[DD_Crash]

Is there no 90 degree angle adapters for the power supply sockets?

[kissTheSky]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Ok so testing in DCS Spit Cold Start Channel Map, a mission I have been flying whilst I learn the Spit for the last couple of weeks.

My fps went from 40-50 fps with the 3090 to 65-75fps with the 4090. Frametimes down to 11-14 ms or so. Previously they were like 18-20 ms.Top GPU Temp whilst flying the mission was 52c.

I think I am going to be very pleased with this 4090. Think I will test Varjo Motion Reprojection now that I have a 4090 and see how it does - I know it is still in Beta at this time.

Dang! That’s a good chunk of improvement! My hybrid cooled eVGA 3090 gets 58 degrees C in IL-2 and 64 degrees C in iRacing. I keep half an eye on BestBuy 4090FE stocks, but I may consider a base OC edition AIB card if they become available at Microcenter. 

[shirazjohn]

36 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

Is there no 90 degree angle adapters for the power supply sockets?

I think you can buy third party connectors but I'm not sure how it would effect the warranty if it melted as per the supplied version.

Just found this.

https://store.cablemod.com/12vhpwr-angled-adapter/

Edited January 12, 2023 by shirazjohn

[dburne]

Just registered this puppy, warranty shows it expires 1/9/27.  Not bad. Of course no experience whatsoever with their warranty so no idea how good or bad it might be. I know probably no one can attain the level that EVGA did. Gonna see if I can get the controls going and do a quick mission in IL-2, will advise.

[dburne]

Sorry guys just launched IL-2 ( it has been a while) to find both my controllers are all messed up. It offered to input from old device ( not sure why) but that did not work, going to have to go in and set them all up again. Don't currently have the stomach for it, will try and get it done Saturday and hopefully report back on how it does. I am sure it is going to be really good even better of course than DCS , I will try and find out soon as I can.

I have had both this stick and throttle for almost 2 years now so not sure what has happened. I have used them before in IL-2 obviously. Perhaps newer device firmware might have triggered this. I tend to keep their firmwares updated.

Edited January 12, 2023 by dburne

[Jaws2002]

54 minutes ago, dburne said:

Just registered this puppy, warranty shows it expires 1/9/27.  Not bad. Of course no experience whatsoever with their warranty so no idea how good or bad it might be. I know probably no one can attain the level that EVGA did. Gonna see if I can get the controls going and do a quick mission in IL-2, will advise.

 Their warranty is good. I had two motherboards replaced in warranty with them. It took a few weeks, but it was done. No questions asked.

[dburne]

59 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 Their warranty is good. I had two motherboards replaced in warranty with them. It took a few weeks, but it was done. No questions asked.

 

Good to know thanks.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

11 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks much for the feedback I do appreciate it , however that is one I am unwilling to move on, going to stay with Intel. Kind of same way wife and I stick with Ford cars lol. Just a "me" thing.

Hmmmm....  The 13900KS has been released and the reviews are coming thick and fast......

Unless you are a fan of spending a fortune on cooling solutions and accepting a very small benefit I would avoid this CPU.
If you need something to heat up your basement, it may be more attractive.

 

Addendum: Based on the results the tester below achieved, the 5800X3D is still going to beat the 13900KS at 4k-ish type resolutions for MSFS.
It is highly likely that the, soon to be released, higher clock speed 7800X3D will increase that performance superiority by at least another 10% for MSFS .
That is a lot of potential performance to leave on the table just by sticking to an intel solution.
 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve