Finaly bought Normandy and at D-day + 1 the beaches are empty, no ships, no troops... :(

[343KKT_Kintaro]

This derived to a new off topic so I responded on this other thread.

 

 

[MisterSmith]

Continuing to take this OT will force my hand. Back on topic please.

 

Smith

[Jaegermeister]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:47 AM, Lusekofte said:

Only scripted campaigns will be able to tweak a balanced mission. This is why they are so damn cool

and the included Scenario missions for the individual aircraft…

?
 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Jaegermeister

[Matsy_fr]

OK then I hope my problem originated from a forgoten tmplate, because on a mission, on the 7the of june 44, even if the mission dodnt imply the beach heads, it was damn clos to it, as I said a few  click south of the beaches was the zone I was supposed to attack, and my flight path was passing the east side of the beaches and over the ship supposed to shell the coast, they were marked on the map, but nowhere to be seen, so I hope I'l give it another go and things will be ther this time. I'l update this post Either case. I think from the 7th onward there should always be ships and troops unloading cargo,men and vehincules at the beaches.  Even if static. It should be there, period.

Thank you everyone for your replies!

[Livai]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:28 PM, Matsy_fr said:

It's the pointe du hoc isnt it? It's far from breath taking scenery, and not how it would have look that day but at least the landing boats are there, I made sure to do all the coast that is concerned, I flew there lower than this, the bunkers were there, inactive, but not a single boat, nothing. That's what I dont understand, why on the proper date there was nothing? Obviously it can be in the game, but I didnt manage to get it. I'l have to try again, other squadron, maybe, german side, but it's really gonna make me loose my patience. 60 something euros... At least I got the planes... but for a while I'l fly in dcs because I'm pissed. Do the devs answer here sometime?

 

Looking all youtube videos I don't see much action - I mean variety of little more or nothing.............

 

 

On 1/5/2023 at 5:54 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

I don't fill the boat with soldiers.  I just create the boat.  (looked again - the soldiers look like only the crew.  I did not see actual soldiers as a "cargo" in the well of the landing boat) I am guessing the 1C implementation just includes the soldiers in the 3d model of the boat.

The boat starts away from the beach.  When the boat reaches the shore I trigger a spawn of whatever the boat is carrying (infantry or tanks) on the shore.  

Once spawned, the attacking units are programmed to attack defensive positions, which will cause the soldiers and tanks to start moving across the beach.

 

I think to fill the boats with soldiers, tanks, whatever is more interesting to enjoy than just to spawn them on the beach...................

[Matsy_fr]

On 1/11/2023 at 5:54 PM, Livai said:

Looking all youtube videos I don't see much action - I mean variety of little more or nothing.............

 

Well I would have been happy with what are on those screen shots, that's what I was expecting. As I said, there was NOTHING. NO ships, no troops, no smoke.

[Livai]

15 hours ago, Matsy_fr said:

Well I would have been happy with what are on those screen shots, that's what I was expecting. As I said, there was NOTHING. NO ships, no troops, no smoke.

 

Problem: "Once I launch the mission, I have nothing (no itinerary displayed on the map, no objective either"

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/80285-empty-mission-in-career-mode/

 

Developer Answer: "When there is nothing"

 

[Matsy_fr]

Hey Livai!

This has nothing to do with the problem I encountered.... I'm not talking about objectives not being there, I talked about the beaches of Dday and the sea in front of it being absolutely devoied of any single unit. It's about scenery related to the time of the mission, which was present for other people on other missions. Nothing to do with what what would or would not be found at the objective which was further inland. It's advertised and I know devellopers work on the sceney of the Dday, it just didnt show up in that playthrough for some reason. They are supposed to be there.

 

As somebody else suggested, the templates of the landings troops, ships and vehicules that are planned in the game for the invasion were maybe missing in some mission types.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Matsy_fr

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Matsy_fr said:

As somebody else suggested, the templates of the landings troops, ships and vehicles that are planned in the game for the invasion were maybe missing in some mission types.

 

They aren't missing - they just have never been created.

[DragonDaddy]

This “Battle of Normandy” seems to be more about the aftermath of the June 6 invasion, not the invasion itself. 

[[TWB]80hd]

(The TL;DR is in bold at the bottom)

 

You guys new, I guess? 

 

Battle of Moscow you can't fly over Moscow.  Battle of Stalingrad, there's no horde rushing over the Volga and you're not going to see 250,000 Winter Fritz's surrendering.  Flown around Kuban for quite awhile and still haven't seen the massive engagements that took place on the Taman peninsula.

 

There's two basic schools of thought here:

 

1. 

Spoiler

 

2: It's complicated:

 

Even with LOD tricks and extensive pop-in, trying to model and render some kind of cinematic experience, in real-time, accessible to an average hardware level that has an appreciable customer base... doing that with a First Person Shooter is daunting... and most of those that knock your socks off do so on relatively constricted maps/linear paths through said maps, and ultimately a rendering zone that is infinitesimal compared to a flight sim.

 

This shows a render from a ground-based game (World of Tanks in this case)

Spoiler

 

The red square was their original 1km x 1km render range.  For a ground based "sim" (yes, I use the term sooooo loosely here)

 

The green circle was their ostensible improvement to this method, and as you can see, they did not extend the actual range, simply the area.  

 

Of course, there is more to the above than a 2-dimensional plane that needs to be rendered:

 

Spoiler

 

Bear with me on the anachronistic example here, it's the best thing I could find quickly... but the point is that a player/vehicle/aircraft is the focal point of rendering in any 3D simulation.  Whether it's a bubble or a box or some variation (such as during a cutscene or "on-rails" segment where you can't turn or look backward, they can cheese the render distance forward), you have a finite distance at which 3d objects are rendered at all.  (All the mountains you can never reach and the 2d cardboard planes you see flying out in the distance are non-3D backdrop props).

 

So, using the ground-game as an example (and if you don't ever FPS or drive tanks in IL-2 or other sims, then consider when you are taxiing around on the ground instead), it's ALWAYS half a bubble.  The entire bottom half of the above sphere is underground and therefore disregarded.

 

Given all the above, the render limit (distance) must take into account the "worst case scenario" (or at least come to a balance that covers most situations).  I.e., if we render a 1km half-sphere, we can handle 300 simple 3d objects (buildings that are really just boxes with textures on them, low-poly rocks, trees if they are actually 3d objects, etc.) and let's say 40 "complex" 3d objects.  These are tanks, planes, vehicles, and in some cases detailed variations of otherwise simple 3d objects (say you have a control tower with dudes moving around inside and working radar recievers, etc.)

 

Everything in that bubble has to live in system memory and graphics memory in some way, shape, or form.  Everything you can see must also be fully rendered... you want to be able to spin around in VR/TrackIR and not see stop "pop" in and out?  Cool. That's even more overhead.  Oh, you want to MOVE?  How fast?  30kmh? Okay, well, we gotta have a processor that can shuffle things in and out of memory, and it'd be cool if you had a fast disk so we don't bottleneck there.  Other objects can ALSO move in and out of this sphere?  Whew, okay, well, same as the player moving... hrmmm... maybe we need another "invisible sphere" that's 25%/50% larger than the "render bubble", and objects in here we pre-load JUST IN CASE one or the other moves closer together...

 

Okay, well, we can do that, with a 1km render radius, a maximum number of simple and advanced objects, and the fact that the fastest you can move your vehicle (which is a 1:1 with moving that bubble) is say 45kmh... cool.. let's do this.

 

Now let's take all the above into the air.

 

Out of the gate, your render range begins to grow at fixed rate as soon as your wheels leave the ground and begin climbing.  

 

Right away, we have two massive problems:

 

1. 1km is woefully inadequate once you're above the trees.  While I understand that:

Spoiler

 

For argument's sake, let's say we expand our 1km render radius to 10km!

OOF! That's an exponential increase to what we were just doing!

 

Rendering a 1km sphere results in a volume of 0.5236 km3

 

Rendering a 10km sphere results in a volume of 523.6 km3

 

Oh, also, we'll be moving that sphere around anywhere between 2 times and 10+ times faster than above. Oh, and by the way, the other airborne objects will also be entering/exiting said sphere at combined rates of closure that can easily exceed 1000kmh.

 

For the purposes and intent of the flight sim, this luckily works out for us... although we still deal with some pop-in issues, and of course we'd love to have more 3d objects on the ground, by limiting the focus we can make this work.

 

Trying to provide the number of articulated 3d objects that would be required to simulate a realistic depiction of D-Day (or any of the massive ground engagements the BoX series covers) within the system that has been provided and designed to be a flight simulator is prohibitive from a design and development standpoint, fiscally inefficient from a return on investment standpoint, and outright impossible from a common-denominator client-side hardware standpoint.

 

 

 

[Rei-sen]

2 hours ago, [TWB]80hd said:

Trying to provide the number of articulated 3d objects that would be required to simulate a realistic depiction of D-Day (or any of the massive ground engagements the BoX series covers) within the system that has been provided and designed to be a flight simulator is prohibitive from a design and development standpoint, fiscally inefficient from a return on investment standpoint, and outright impossible from a common-denominator client-side hardware standpoint.

Yeah, box engine is not capable, but don't tell me it's not possible.

https://youtu.be/iNvQlOggvks

 

[Rei-sen]

https://youtu.be/BhOzDHx8HEU

Don't know why youtube urls stopped embedding automatically, but whatever. 

[Matsy_fr]

OMG no I'm not new, not I don't think the devs are lazy and you guys don't get it.... The scenery I say was missing IS IN THE GAME, I saw it on videos and screenshot, I know there can be some action on the beaches, I'm not disapointed because it was not as busy as I would have like, my problem is that it didn't spawn. I will eplain one last time....

 

- I know the game includes some action on and around the beaches on D-day; I've seen it on screenshots and videos: a few ships shelling the beaches, some landing crafts etc.

- I launched a career in a typhoon squadron, my first mission was on the 7th of june so dday plus one, my objective was in land south of the landings, SO the D-day scenery,which I know exist, again, was supposed to be there.... it wasn't.

 

I'm not complaining about how small it is, how realistic it is, I'm comlplaining about the fact that I know it can spawn but didn't in my playthrough.

 

On 2/3/2023 at 7:27 PM, [TWB]80hd said:

You guys new, I guess? 

 

Battle of Moscow you can't fly over Moscow.  Battle of Stalingrad, there's no horde rushing over the Volga and you're not going to see 250,000 Winter Fritz's surrendering.  Flown around Kuban for quite awhile and still haven't seen the massive engagements that took place on the Taman peninsula.

 

Bro.... I know that very well.... you didn't get my point. You wrote a nice (a bit condesending but instuctive) novel but completely missed my point.

 

I'm not saying there aren't enough troops and things on the d-day in the game, I would have been satisfied with what the game provides, whish exists, agin I've seen it in videos and screen shot, it may not be on the scale of the real thing but it's something and it's nice, ALL I AM BLOODY SAYING is that for some reason it didnt appear in my play through. There was nothing. The coast was as empty there as anywhere else when I know there are supposed to be a few assets which I would have been satisfied with.

[jollyjack]

Making missions and campaigns, especially historic, is quite a bit of work.

And then there's the fact that you have to count in that many players use older PCs with less caps to cope with complicated workloads.

 

So my guess is play with the other scenarios until more releases are coming down from experienced mission makers or IL2 itself.

Or use the AQMB?.

 

AQMB generated mission set to SP in the editor, uses quite a bit of processor power maybe:

 

Bf109-G14 AQMB.zip

Edited February 5, 2023 by jollyjack

[danielprates]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:27 PM, [TWB]80hd said:

(The TL;DR is in bold at the bottom)

 

 

TL indeed.

[DBS]

Would it be possible to add sprites, at least for ground troops?

 

Surely a mass of 2d "low-res" objects is better than nothing?

[[TWB]80hd]

4 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

TL indeed.

Thanks for your hard hitting, insightful commentary and addition to the topic at hand, it really enhances the thread.