Developer Diary #337 Discussion (The Past and The Future)

[Han]

2 minutes ago, Han said:

337

Dear Friends,

Year 2022 is ending and as we’re accustomed to, it’s time to sum up its results and discuss the future. 2022 was a year of big changes for IL-2 - our team has increased in size and is determined to achieve even more. We have completed nearly everything planned for this year: Battle of Normandy was the most massive release since 2012 and the finishing of Flying Circus Vol.II is in sight. We continue to develop the Great Battles world by releasing hundreds of improvements - some of them are very significant. Before moving on to next year’s plan, let’s reflect on the Great Battles stats for this year.

.........................................

 

Full news - here is a full text and visual materials

[Heliopause]

c\_/

[L3Pl4K]

New Project, better Hardware utilization by use more CPU cores and Vulkan/DX12? Higher fidelity Aircraft flight models? Could be interesting if this are core goals.

[catchthefoxes]

I am seriously exited to see what the next great battles title will be!! Hopefully we can know that sometime soon? Either way, thank you for all the insane work you’ve done this year team! 

[willeverton]

So this suggests great battles wont be abandoned for a totally new product, just a greatly improved version of what we have?

 

Still no clue as to the theatre of operations. Team keep saying its all planned and approved, so its frustrating they won't tell us what it is!!

 

However its great news that the team is expanding and more enthusiastic than ever, it seems the sim will continue for some while yet and get better and better.....

 

Roll on 2023 and a happy new year to all.

 

 

 

[dburne]

Sounding very good!  While I wish we knew more about the theatres of operation planned, I look forward to seeing what the year brings for IL-2. 

[DN308]

Is there a DD scheduled at the opening of 2023 giving us the next year’s projects and future?

[BMA_FlyingShark]

6 minutes ago, DN308 said:

Is there a DD scheduled at the opening of 2023 giving us the next year’s projects and future?

I don't know when it'll be but I don't think it'll be in a DD.

New projects or expansions to existing projects usually get their own separate announcement.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[simfan2015]

This is the best possible scenario. 

Whatever new theatre eventually makes it is of little importance to me. 

There will be a bright future for GB and the 1C team, that is the only thing that matters. 

Happy 2023! 

[Chief_Mouser]

So, Great Battles continues and something new coming along too. Well, that's good news. ?

Now we can all go back to speculating about just what it is ?.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Chief_Mouser

[HBB*Hunger]

Good news, We're very excited and continue our support for the project! Horrido!

[Juri_JS]

Quote

1. Bring the production of the new large-scale project to full speed;

Just for clarification - the new project will not be part of the GB series and there won't be new modules for GB, right?

[Koziolek]

That's my take, too

For GB there will be a new content, but I think new collector planes only or a map if it's done by community or 3rd party

[354thFG_Panda_]

Can't wait to see what you guys have in the works for us! 

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, DN308 said:

Is there a DD scheduled at the opening of 2023 giving us the next year’s projects and future?

 

I doubt it will be soon. Introduce a whole new project might be limit the interest for all existing GB modules. Earlier they announced new modules 1-2 month later. Now it seems they will wait longer not to cancel interest in all the existing content.

Edited December 29, 2022 by JG27_Steini

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

It sounds like they're going to continue to improve, refine, fix, and add in various planes and maps to GB, while simultaneously shifting to a new, next-gen project that will likely take years to develop. Really this would be a win, win as we can enjoy what we have in the interim, with eyes to a hopeful future. I really think that with the help of the community and molders, a lot can still be done with the GB series.

[dburne]

25 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Just for clarification - the new project will not be part of the GB series and there won't be new modules for GB, right?

 

Not sure they intend to clarify at this point. We will just have to wait and see how things develop. I should think at some point they are going to want some money coming in for something, so maybe sooner rather than later.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

The fact that they will continue expanding GB series gives me some hope again for this series.

I still have mixed feelings about the new project though.

I mean, we have had some features added here over the years (contact altimeter, realistic autopilot,...). How long will it be before we'll get that in the new series? Or will they include all that from the beginning?

 

Have a nice day.

 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Whatever they choose to move on to next, if indeed that is what they are doing, I hope they put real thought to an engine that can be updated more easily. The limitations of the current engine were realised quite quickly IMO.

Edited December 29, 2022 by -TBC-AeroAce

[RaFiGer]

@Developers & Community

 

I'm very keen to get the first Bf-109 G6/AS for skinning and like the way you want evolve beside the flight expirience also the garfphical enviorment of the game simulation

 

Thanks for continuation of this for me always fantastic game world.

 

I will contribute in the new year 2023 beside my work related engagements in Egypt, Kazakhstan and U.S. with a massive update of my little pages thanks to a bunch of nice book's and information's

 

Keep up the work and see you in 2023!!!

 

RaFiGer

https://rafiger.de

https://rafiger.de/Homepage/IL2-BOS-Museum/index-BOS.html

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by RaFiGer

[CountZero]

8 minutes ago, FlyingShark said:

The fact that they will continue expanding GB series gives me some hope again for this series.

I still have mixed feelings about the new project though.

I mean, we have had some features added here over the years (contact altimeter, realistic autopilot,...). How long will it be before we'll get that in the new series? Or will they include all that from the beginning?

 

Have a nice day.

 

And what happends when this new project dont mete expectations and players are still just staying with GB and its content, how long will they have patiantce to keep GB working and updated if it hurts new project they are exited and its clearly main thing for them from now on...  for me this news that they are making another game and thats their focus is worst posible one, i expected they are just gna continue making DLCs for this game... as who would abandon all that is added here for starting all again from nothing...

Edited December 29, 2022 by CountZero

[Luger1969]

A great year/s for you despite all the challenges. Thank you and looking forward to the future.

 

Keep on keeping on.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Luger1969

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

5 minutes ago, CountZero said:

And what happends when this new project dont mete expectations and players are still just staying with GB and its content, how long will they have patiantce to keep GB working and updated if it hurts new project they are exited and its clearly main thing for them from now on...  for me this news that they are making another game and thats their focus is worst posible one, i expected they are just gna continue making DLCs for this game... as who would abandon all that is added here for starting all again from nothing...

At some point they have to start over...updating GB will give them time to do what they should have done in 2012: develop the ultimate ww2 sim with a capable engine.

[CountZero]

1 minute ago, drewm3i-VR said:

At some point they have to start over...updating GB will give them time to do what they should have done in 2012: develop the ultimate ww2 sim with a capable engine.

what makes you think new project is ww2 one, it could be Korea

[343KKT_Kintaro]

 

1 hour ago, willeverton said:

So this suggests great battles wont be abandoned for a totally new product, just a greatly improved version of what we have?

 

QUOTATION

There are ambitious goals ahead, and the team is gathering strength and resources to reach them. Here’s what we have planned for the next year:
1. Bring the production of the new large-scale project to full speed;
2. Complete the development of a number of new base technologies for the new project, which we started working on last year already;
3. Develop new approaches to the user experience in the next project, taking into account all the previous experience (both our own and that of our competitors);
4. Continue releasing new content for the Great Battles world;
5. Add new employees to the team, increasing the number of team members by 1.5 times in total;
6. Establish partnerships with teams and enthusiasts who will help us in the development of the Great Battles world, as well as in the creation of content for the new project.

END OF QUOTATION

 

- Why "new content for the Great Battles world" and "creation of content for the new project" are, each, in separated items on the list? Because the new project is a new core engine and simulator, incompatible with Great Battles (in my humble opinion).

 

- Why there's the word "new" among the words of "new content for the Great Battles world" and the word "new" is absent from "creation of content for the new project" ? Because the new project is a new core engine and simulator, incompatible with Great Battles, so it never received content before  (in my humble opinion).

 

 

1 hour ago, willeverton said:

Still no clue as to the theatre of operations

 

 

I may be wrong but, most likely, the new theatre of operations will be available within a new game only, it won't be a DLC for Great Battles. The most likely outcome is that the Great Battles team completes the Flying Circus series, adds one or two more Tank Crew volumes and tanks, that they model new collector planes and vehicles... but that the  WWII aviation modules come to an end with "Battle of Normandy" and that the continuity of WWII aviation modules is only ensured for a new game that, probably, will be incompatible with Great Battles.

 

There are simmers who were happy with '46 and Cliffs of Dover back in 2013 and 2014 and, even being happy with such games, moved to the newly created "BoS" community back in these years. So, there's no reason to think that, in a close future, a majority of Great Battles fans won't be happy to keep their Great Battles modules and simultaneously, and progressively, step by step, constitute a new community for a new game. The progressive replacement of Great Battles by a new simulator won't be the end of the world, it will be the logical continuity of the sims market... as it always has been.

 

 

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

who would abandon all that is added here for starting alla again from nothing...

 

 

Simples: all of those who preordered Stalingrad back in 2013. This is exactly what they did. Back in 2013-2014 the Great Battles community of players started from nothing and my reading of the current situation is that 1CGS plans to progressively convert its Great Battles players into their next project players. If I'm right, I hope it will be a great simulator and... if it is, I'll be proud of being a part of its future community.

 

 

[CCG_Pips]

Quote Han :

 

All the not-so-easy changes that happened to IL-2 in 2022 allowed us to move on from the old way of thinking that held back our development.

 

Unquote:

 

?....try to do better and will see future!!!!

[CountZero]

9 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

QUOTATION

There are ambitious goals ahead, and the team is gathering strength and resources to reach them. Here’s what we have planned for the next year:
1. Bring the production of the new large-scale project to full speed;
2. Complete the development of a number of new base technologies for the new project, which we started working on last year already;
3. Develop new approaches to the user experience in the next project, taking into account all the previous experience (both our own and that of our competitors);
4. Continue releasing new content for the Great Battles world;
5. Add new employees to the team, increasing the number of team members by 1.5 times in total;
6. Establish partnerships with teams and enthusiasts who will help us in the development of the Great Battles world, as well as in the creation of content for the new project.

END OF QUOTATION

 

- Why "new content for the Great Battles world" and "creation of content for the new project" are, each, in separated items on the list? Because the new project is a new core engine and simulator, incompatible with Great Battles (in my humble opinion).

 

- Why there's the word "new" among the words of "new content for the Great Battles world" and the word "new" is absent from "creation of content for the new project" ? Because the new project is a new core engine and simulator, incompatible with Great Battles, so it never received content before  (in my humble opinion).

 

 

 

 

I may be wrong but, most likely, the new theatre of operations will be available within a new game only, it won't be a DLC for Great Battles. The most likely outcome is that the Great Battles team completes the Flying Circus series, adds one or two more Tank Crew volumes and tanks, that they model new collector planes and vehicles... but that the  WWII aviation modules come to an end with "Battle of Normandy" and that the continuity of WWII aviation modules is only ensured for a new game that, probably, will be incompatible with Great Battles.

 

There are simmers who were happy with '46 and Cliffs of Dover back in 2013 and 2014 and, even being happy with such games, moved to the newly created "BoS" community back in these years. So, there's no reason to think that, in a close future, a majority of Great Battles fans won't be happy to keep their Great Battles modules and simultaneously, and progressively, step by step, constitute a new community for a new game. The progressive replacement of Great Battles by a new simulator won't be the end of the world, it will be the logical continuity of the sims market... as it always has been.

 

 

 

 

Simples: all of those who preordered Stalingrad back in 2013. This is exactly what they did. Back in 2013-2014 the Great Battles community of players started from nothing and my reading of the current situation is that 1CGS plans to progressively convert its Great Battles players into their next project players. If I'm right, I hope it will be a great simulator and... if it is, I'll be proud of being a part of its future community.

 

 

In 2013 Clod was mess, IL-2 1946 was clearly dated, you had opening for new game for players to come to play. Now GB is not broken, who would buy BoS or BoM again in new game when he have it working and with more content here... and i doubt new game will be some epic jump in graphics or flight detail... its not same like it was in 2013 situation is totaly oposite.

[Art-J]

Looks to me pretty much like the CloD vs '46 development pattern in late 2000's. The company smoothly shifts to working on a scratch-built new product, while concurrently offering slowly diminishing support for the previous one (bills have to be paid after all) and looking for Team-Daidalos-like 3rd party to take over the final development of it. As long as they avoid Oleg's and Luthier's mistakes, this approach might and should work pretty well in the end.

 

As for the "paying again for the same stuff" arguments from some members on the forum, it's BS in my opinion. People who are interested in having next gen flight sim will pay anyway. '46 guys paid again for the same planes when GB came, FSX guys paid again when P3D and XP came, now P3D and XP guys pay again now after MSFS2020 came. Amount of money invested previously is irelevant. Older platform goes, newer platform comes and that's that.

 

People who are not interested in the new project won't pay, so what? Unless someone permanently shuts down the auth servers (which I don't expect anytime soon) there's still going to be GB for them, just like there are still folks very actively playing '46.

[Koziolek]

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 who would buy BoS or BoM again in new game 

I would, if the improvement is big enough to be worth the money

[CountZero]

1 minute ago, Art-J said:

Looks to me pretty much like the CloD vs '46 development pattern in late 2000's. The company smoothly shifts to working on a scratch-built new product, while concurrently offering slowly diminishing support for the previous one (bills have to be paid after all) and looking for Team-Daidalos-like 3rd party to take over the final development of it. As long as they avoid Oleg's and Luthier's mistakes, this approach might and should work pretty well in the end.

 

As for the "paying again for the same stuff" arguments from some members on the forum, it's BS in my opinion. People who are interested in having next gen flight sim will pay anyway. '46 guys paid again for the same planes when GB came, FSX guys paid again when P3D and XP came, now P3D and XP guys pay again now after MSFS2020 came. Amount of money invested previously is irelevant. Older platform goes, newer platform comes and that's that.

 

People who are not interested in the new project won't pay, so what? Unless someone permanently shuts down the auth servers (which I don't expect anytime soon) there's still going to be GB for them, just like there are still folks very actively playing '46.

jump from 46 to GB is obvious, jump from other civil sims to MSFS2020 its more then obvious, ppl will pay for that, but do you realy expect next new thing will be such a big jump, so ppl will buy it insted wait for more content to be added, exept QM and 2 fighter airplanes and on on... for years to come, just remenber how long it tok to get more interesting stuff here...

1 minute ago, Koziolek said:

I would, if the improvement is big enough to be worth the money

Yes thats the key they need to show clear and big improvment compared to what we have in not so dated looking and working game now compared to competitors. And i doubt in that we gona see this new project be on level of MSFS2020 improvments to flying games, that set standard for modern flying game, you cant relise new game in 2023+ and it looks like 5% better version of one from 2013, and expect ppl to abandon old one with content for new one with nothing mutch to show for years to come.

[JG27_Steini]

46 minutes ago, drewm3i-VR said:

It sounds like they're going to continue to improve, refine, fix, and add in various planes and maps to GB, while simultaneously shifting to a new, next-gen project that will likely take years to develop. Really this would be a win, win as we can enjoy what we have in the interim, with eyes to a hopeful future. I really think that with the help of the community and molders, a lot can still be done with the GB series.

 

You are probably right. It only make me sad the my beloved WWII simulation wont get any important SP improvements. Any other late war scenarios are out interest. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by JG27_Steini

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, CountZero said:

In 2013 Clod was mess, IL-2 1946 was clearly dated, you had opening for new game for players to come to play. Now GB is not broken, who would buy BoS or BoM again in new game when he have it working and with more content here... and i doubt new game will be some epic jump in graphics or flight detail... its not same like it was in 2013 situation is totaly oposite.

 

 

In 2013 and 2014, BoS presented issues as well. All sims start with problems, all of them. Back in the time in the late 1970s and all along the 1980s and 1990s, after purchase, you needed to send a letter to the development company so that a correcting floppy disk is sent to your letterbox (not an email box... the physical box, this).

 

Furthermore, you talk as if possessing two different sims in the same computer was a rare phenomenon. There are plenty of simmers who possess simultaneously, and play at different times during their weekly life of simmers, different simulators. I possess Rise of Flight, Cliffs of Dover, Great Battles and DCS... and I'm not an exception. My reading of the current situation is that we are living a transitional period between the current main 1CGS combat flight simulator and the 1CGS future main combat flight simulator... the "new project" that was just mentioned by Han.

 

 

[simfan2015]

The are mentioning a new project.... could well be a first person shooter MMO !?

?

[BMA_FlyingShark]

46 minutes ago, CountZero said:

And what happends when this new project dont mete expectations and players are still just staying with GB and its content, how long will they have patiantce to keep GB working and updated if it hurts new project they are exited and its clearly main thing for them from now on...  for me this news that they are making another game and thats their focus is worst posible one, i expected they are just gna continue making DLCs for this game... as who would abandon all that is added here for starting all again from nothing...

That is true and that is the reason why I said that I have mixed feelings about the team starting a new project.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

IF they are doing a new project! Im sure that they can carry across a lot of the hard work. I guess then the question is how much for the update

[DD_Arthur]

Agree with the points made by Kintaro and Art-J very much.

 

Very much looking forward to a completely new simulator.

 

Onwards and upwards.?

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I just don't understand why it is taking so so so long to make the announcement of the next module.

At least set a date for the announcement.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

8 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I just don't understand why it is taking so so so long to make the announcement of the next module.

At least set a date for the announcement.

 

 

I may be wrong but in the Great Battles series there won't be new modules other than modules planned for Flying Circus and Tank Crew. Their next aviation module not dealing with WWI aviation will most likely be a new game, a game which will be incompatible with Great Battles.

 

 

[Robli]

The style of the announcement really gives the impression that this new project will not be compatible with current Battles. Their reluctance to confirm that it would be compatible with current game, after several inquiries, makes this impression even stronger.

 

I am somewhat surprised that they would move to a totally new project and it is not Pacific. They have said that they intend to move to Pacific after the next project and I agree with CountZero that it is somewhat silly to do a new battle with 109s, Yaks or Spits so that it would not be compatible with all the current existing content. If it was something completely new, like Pacific with carriers, Zeros, Wildcats and all the Pacific stuff, where compatibility with 109s and Yaks is quite irrelevant, then the jump to a new core would make more sense.

[Cunctator]

1 minute ago, Robli said:

The style of the announcement really gives the impression that this new project will not be compatible with current Battles. Their reluctance to confirm that it would be compatible with current game, after several inquiries, makes this impression even stronger.

 

I am somewhat surprised that they would move to a totally new project and it is not Pacific. They have said that they intend to move to Pacific after the next project and I agree with CountZero that it is somewhat silly to do a new battle with 109s, Yaks or Spits so that it would not be compatible with all the current existing content. If it was something completely new, like Pacific with carriers, Zeros, Wildcats and all the Pacific stuff, where compatibility with 109s and Yaks is quite irrelevant, then the jump to a new core would make more sense.

 

Korea ticks all the boxes. A New theatre, a new war, can be marketed to Russian, Chinese and Western audiences. Early jets and high end prop planes, well documented Western and Russian aircraft to model and a lot of the required US assets can be reused for a later Pacific module.