cliffs of dover Blitz have oxygen mask?

[Veteran66]

Hi all

 

have the "Blitz" Pilots have oxygen mask, when yes how activate these?

 

At 9000m the pilots have not automatically oxygen mask on.

 

I find no settings to change the Pilot head options

[Enceladus828]

In the Menu go to Options, then click Pilot, scroll down to Mask and select oxygen mask.

[Dawson]

Veteran66, the oxygen mask is always on or never on depending on how you dressed your pilot as Enceladus instructed. I also miss the pilot automatically switching to oxygen at high altitude like 1946 had.

[Buzzsaw]

Oxygen use is not modeled in CLIFFS OF DOVER BLITZ.

 

The reason?

 

Because if we were to model it accurately, then we'd need to model for failure by the pilot to use it, or failure of the system. (random failure of oxygen systems did happen)

 

The results of both are typically in real life the pilot becoming drowsy and gradually losing consciousness... and crashing to his death.

 

The onset of oxygen starvation to the brain is subtle, and a lot of the time a pilot would not notice until their reasoning/consciousness has been fatally compromised.

 

Most players would not be happy to suddenly find they have lost control of their aircraft and have crashed and died... and in some cases without any warning, and not as a result of any oversight on their part.

 

Since correctly implemented player oxygen use/function would have no effect on the game, (other than the player not dying) it seems pointless to create a system whereby there is a chance the player can suddenly die in the middle of flight through no fault of their own.

[Dagwoodyt]

Flying the Mossie in DCS I was trying to figure out why VR HMD visuals were becoming progressively more blurry as I climbed to get over a mountain range ?

[Buzzsaw]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Flying the Mossie in DCS I was trying to figure out why VR HMD visuals were becoming progressively more blurry as I climbed to get over a mountain range ?

Simulating oxygen deprivation with increased blurriness may seem like a good solution, but in fact the experience is much more subtle and involves a lot of different brain functions.

 

The pilot would typically start to lose the ability to rationalize clearly, would start to become focused on irrelevant aspects of his surroundings, might start to talk to himself irrationally, lose the ability to hear other talk to him, etc, etc.  It can be considered similar to deleriums or intoxication.

 

It would not be a question of a rational person being able to notice something is out of the ordinary in his environment... the pilot would be so disoriented intellectually that he simply doesn't care that his fellow pilots are telling him over the intercom that he needs to turn his oxygen on.

 

There are many tragic anecdotes from WWII where pilots describe one of their wingmen becoming a victim of oxygen deprivation and flying to their death.  Those who were fortunate to recover often only did so after their aircraft descended on its own to a lower altitude... allowing them to recover.

[Mysticpuma]

I think visually just reach 6000m and having the pilot model be shown wearing an oxygen mask would be enough? 

[Bert_Foster]

Actually in the RAF types the Mic was in the mask so in most cases the entire sortie would have be flown with the mask on from Take off to landing.

[Buzzsaw]

7 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I think visually just reach 6000m and having the pilot model be shown wearing an oxygen mask would be enough? 

As mentioned, microphones were in the mask... pilots wore the masks from takeoff to landing, unless bailing out.

 

Only in WWII movies do you see pilots flying around with masks hanging off loose, primarily to show off the chiseled features of John Wayne or some other Hollywood star.

[Veteran66]

6 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

As mentioned, microphones were in the mask... pilots wore the masks from takeoff to landing, unless bailing out.

 

Only in WWII movies do you see pilots flying around with masks hanging off loose, primarily to show off the chiseled features of John Wayne or some other Hollywood star.

the Germans had throat microphones

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

23 minutes ago, Veteran66 said:

the Germans had throat microphones

 

 

They still wore oxygen masks 99% of the time.

 

(US had throat microphones too)

[Veteran66]

They still wore oxygen masks 99% of the time

 

yes I agree with you, not only the oxygen limit was dangerous for the Pilot, the Engine exhaust in the cabine was dangerous too.

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:22 AM, Veteran66 said:

They still wore oxygen masks 99% of the time

 

yes I agree with you, not only the oxygen limit was dangerous for the Pilot, the Engine exhaust in the cabine was dangerous too.

 

 

 

The engine exhaust? "Cabine"?

 

We the French use that term, "cabine de pilotage", or just "cabine", for short. The term "poste de pilotage" is very common in French. But in fact, most of the time, we use the English word "cockpit". Using wordreference.com I didn't find "cabine" in German, nor I found it in the German Wikipedia (I found "Cockpit").

 

At any rate, I can't see how any residual exhaust could end up inside the cockpit, therefore affecting the pilot's breath. Do we have some fact about that?

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by 343KKT_Kintaro
Do we some fact --> Do we have some fact

[Veteran66]

ok in German Kabine in english Cockpit

 

 

here some Infos for Engine exhaust in the Cockpit:

https://www.aerokurier.de/praxis/sicherheit-kohlenmonoxid-die-giftgefahr-im-cockpit/

 

the tightness of the exhaust even under fire should be clear

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Vielen Dank for the clarification on "Kabine", I should have thought about that German "K" and find the word by myself...

 

Thank you too for the article. The Deepl.com translation I obtained reads "A crack in the exhaust system in the area of the heating heat exchanger of his aircraft is likely to be the source of the CO exposure in the cockpit." Thus it was a system's failure. But the article mentions that there may also be other causes, so wearing the oxygen mask 99% of the time (as Buzzsaw said) makes sense.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

So is the takeaway that no system function is depicted in this game unless it is represented "true to life"? ?

[OBT-Eazy]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

So is the takeaway that no system function is depicted in this game unless it is represented "true to life"? ?

 

Solution for you.
Build a real working oxygen mask and program an Arduino or any other microprocessor board that somehow retrieves the altitude of the player's plane. This Arduino will then regulate the oxygen supply in the mask (perhaps by reducing the oxygen level and increasing the nitrogen level) depending on the altitude.
If your system is operational and works as expected, then you can market (or open source) this accessory as an add-on to increase the realism of the game.

DISCLAIMER: This is only an imaginative experience (Indeed, how can Dagwoodyt do something to improve the game?). Never reproduce this at home. This could have serious or even lethal consequences for your health.

Edited December 31, 2022 by OBT-Eazy

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, OBT-Eazy said:

 

Solution for you.
Build a real working oxygen mask and program an Arduino or any other microprocessor board that somehow retrieves the altitude of the player's plane. This Arduino will then regulate the oxygen supply in the mask (perhaps by reducing the oxygen level and increasing the nitrogen level) depending on the altitude.
If your system is operational and works as expected, then you can market (or open source) this accessory as an add-on to increase the realism of the game.

DISCLAIMER: This is only an imaginative experience (Indeed, how can Dagwoodyt do something to improve the game?). Never reproduce this at home. This could have serious or even lethal consequences for your health.

when you cannot bring yourself to answer a question whose answer is unavoidable ?
 

[Dagwoodyt]

23 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I think visually just reach 6000m and having the pilot model be shown wearing an oxygen mask would be enough? 

The mask is one issue. The other is oxygen flow management. If the virtual pilot repeatedly passes out due to failure to adjust oxygen flow, the player eventually pays attention to oxygen flow management. If implemented, the rote response to player complaints would be to "read the manual".  Making the Visual Update available to customers though is far more important than attempting changes to the existing "mask" display system. Contributors have provided reasonable observations. Given current uncertainties, discussion of changes beyond existing commitments can become surreal.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[Buzzsaw]

9 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The mask is one issue. The other is oxygen flow management. If the virtual pilot repeatedly passes out due to failure to adjust oxygen flow, the player eventually pays attention to oxygen flow management. If implemented, the rote response to player complaints would be to "read the manual".  Making the Visual Update available to customers though is far more important than attempting changes to the existing "mask" display system. Contributors have provided reasonable observations. Given current uncertainties, discussion of changes beyond existing commitments can become surreal.

Not the only issue.

 

As mentioned, there were failures of the oxygen systems due to no fault of the pilot.

 

These could and did kill the pilot.

 

If we modeled an accurate oxygen system there would be a random chance for failure.

 

I doubt players would appreciate being in the middle of a campaign and then finding out they have died due to oxygen system failure.

 

----

 

Bottom line:

 

Because of all the factors  I have detailed in my various posts in this thread we do not model oxygen systems in CLIFFS, and will not do so in the future.

[FurphyForum]

3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

 

 

Bottom line:

 

Because of all the factors  I have detailed in my various posts in this thread we do not model oxygen systems in CLIFFS, and will not do so in the future.

 

I think this is about as close as *#$% is to swearing! 

 

Don't let the door slam your arse on the way out as the subject is close from a TF perspective... and fair enough. 

[FTC_Karaya]

12 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

If we modeled an accurate oxygen system there would be a random chance for failure.

 

Why would random failures of the oxygen system have to be implemented?

We dont have random engine failures (fortunately)

We dont have weapon jams and misfires (fortunately)

We dont have any other random system failures (fortunately)

 

I was never really bothered by the lack of oxygen system modelling but the point made here is kinda odd.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Karaya

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I just read what I read above and I have one word to say: unbelievable. Please TFS ignore all negative disruptive elements who permanently aim at the sabotage of your work. You guys of TFS established a clear planning and you simply need to stick to it. If everything goes well the chronological order will be as follows:

 

1) Visual update

2) Release of the second add-on

 

"Cliffs" is a survey type simulator and Buzzaw's choice regarding oxygen masks is far way reasonable in the context of a survey type simulator. Pretending that TFS should feel forced to model oxygen flow and oxygen mask management by the player is outrageously ridiculous.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

WRT those random systems failures I've been miraculously fortunate ?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Dagwoodyt]

Interesting to observe how some who reflexively rail against spoonfeeding new players can instantly change their tune  ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

20 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Interesting to observe how some who reflexively rail against spoonfeeding new players can instantly change their tune  ?

 

 

Off topic.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

well, if you really feel the need to raise you hand... ?

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[343KKT_Kintaro]

17 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

well, if you really feel the need to raise you hand... ?

 

 

 

Off topic.

 

[Cloyd]

Could we maybe have a dedicated thread where Dagwoodyt and Kintaro can work out their lover's spat? This is getting well beyond tedious.

[Guest deleted@83466]

?We had a quarrel, a lovers spat, I said I’m sorry but my letter keeps coming back (she wrote upon it…)?

[Dagwoodyt]

59 minutes ago, Cloyd said:

Could we maybe have a dedicated thread where Dagwoodyt and Kintaro can work out their lover's spat? This is getting well beyond tedious.

You can have the honor of the OP  ?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

?We had a quarrel, a lovers spat, I said I’m sorry but my letter keeps coming back (she wrote upon it…)?

If you've identified posts that qualify they likely were not written by me  ?

Is there a random system failure function in Blitz' CEM?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Buzzsaw]

5 hours ago, Karaya said:

 

Why would random failures of the oxygen system have to be implemented?

We dont have random engine failures (fortunately)

We dont have weapon jams and misfires (fortunately)

We dont have any other random system failures (fortunately)

 

I was never really bothered by the lack of oxygen system modelling but the point made here is kinda odd.

You are incorrect.

 

The chance, and time to, the various engine failures due to gunfire, mis-use by the player, lack of fluids, temperature of fluids, etc. has a randomized element.  The main determinant is the initiating factor, (the bullet, the lack of fluid, temperature of fluid, etc.) but there is a random element modifying the result, which affects how long till the failure might occur, or how severe the failure might be.  So in some instances, you can make it home on your damaged engine, and in some cases, you can't.

 

We intend to implement weapon jams and misfires at some point... this will be partially random, simulating cartridge defects/loading issues which are impossible to model on a one on one basis in a game like this, but mainly a function of G forces, type of weapon, type of aircraft installation, and duration of fire.

 

With regards to other aspects of the game... there are a number of calculations in the game's physics engine which require a 'throw of a dice' at certain points.