When are timers required or not?

[dbuile]

When we chain commands/triggers/whatever together, our brain thinks of them sequentially, but, based on suggested use of timers, that's not really the case? 

Is there a clear sense of when timers are truly required or not?

 

Apologies for not doing enough homework, but I saw reference to a "ticks" concept... is use of timers related to how the game processes chunks of logic, so that to have things actually go in some sequential order, you need to ensure those items make it into separate "ticks" of logic evaluation? 

 

I ask because I end up putting in timers everywhere, cuz, well, I don't know any better.  I think I was putting them after check zones, but is that required??  

 

On tangent, what are all those _DUDE things in auto-gen missions hahahah?!

 

P.S.  Don't be like me:  BACK UP your missions.  My SSD drive died after only a year, and took with it the meagre missions I'd created.  Maybe I can recreate them much more quickly, but it IS a chore... 

[Jaegermeister]

I can share a couple of thoughts about timers, but my opinion may vary from some other people.

 

The DUDE label is an acronym used by the Devs for a buffer on “node” timer. I don’t remember what it is an abbreviation for.

 

Some commands work better if you give the AI a second or 2 to process them before hitting it with another one. Force complete, formation and next waypoints can get lost if you don’t space them out.

 

Short timers like 200ms or 1second can be used to link one trigger to another but there is no reason to link a timer to another timer unless…

 

I have had issues with commands getting “lost” if a timer triggers more than 2 actions simultaneously. I have not had this issue with any other MCU. I can't prove it, record it, or demonstrate it because it’s impossible to record something not happening. My solution is to make logic chains with 1 action firing off each timer in a chain. I have never had a problem since I started doing that.

 

There is no need for a timer after a check zone if you want the action to happen right away. It’s a trigger like any other.

 

I don’t worry too much about what the game supposedly needs because it’s not set in stone. I just try to keep the number of MCUs to a minimum as long as they work and I can keep track of them so I can remember what I’ve done when I have to go back and debug it. To that end, I have come up with standard logic chains I always use so I know what order things happen in. There is more than 1 way to make almost anything happen in the ME so figure out what you are comfortable with and move on.

 

You can use other triggers like counters to link one action to another, and they are more reliable for firing multiple actions at the same time.

 

If you have a timer in the middle of a sequence and you aren’t sure if you need it, you almost certainly don’t. That makes it a waste of time.

 

Hopefully that helps a little bit.

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

13 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I can share a couple of thoughts about timers, but my opinion may vary from some other people.

I mostly agree with you, but I haven't had any of the "lost commands" issues you mention, at least not where I couln't explain it.

 

Personally, I only use timers if I want to absolutely make sure that a certain command follows a different command*. Say, you've got one trigger linking to both a Force Complete and a new Waypoint. Regardless of the order they appear in the trigger's target box, there's a chance the Waypoint will execute first, and a millisecond afterwards the Force Complete, which will immediately cancel the Waypoint command you just ordered. Result: the aircraft will just fly around a bit and won't proceed to the Waypoint. If you wait a second before you trigger the Waypoint, it'll work correctly since the proper order is guaranteed.

 

I don't use timers for other complex stuff, as long as the order doesn't matter. Let's say I want to spawn a flight of Fw190s when the player reaches a certain waypoint, as well as make the player proceed to the next waypoint, and spawn a couple of Flak guns. The logic might look like this:

Player Waypoint MCU 1 
   |--> Player Waypoint MCU 2
   |--> Flak Activate MCU
   |--> Timer 3s
        |--> Flak Force Complete MCU (to make it fire)
        |--> Fw190 Waypoint MCU
   |--> Fw190 Spawner MCU

It doesn't really matter whether the enemies are spawned first, or if the player proceeds to the next waypoint first. That's why those execute simultaneously. However, if the Force Complete for the Flak and the Waypoint for the Fw190s are triggered before the spawning process has completed, those commands might get lost in the process since the objects didn't really exist yet. That's why those have a 3s delay.

 

* Of course, I also use timers as actual timers. One thing I can really recommend is to make a "catch all" timer that will make the player flight RTB a couple of minutes after reaching the objective. That way you're sure the mission progresses as it should, even if the player messes up the objective.