This sounds like music to me

[acer884]

Hi,

I have been watching the forum for a long time, although I do not actively participate in it.

Seeing quite a lot of confusion and doubts regarding the rights to the GB series and the related expectations and fears, I will try to present some information that has appeared since February 2022 about 1C Entertainment in open sources of information in Poland, and based on Polish company registers, because it companies of the 1C group are/were registered in Poland. All indicated data are public in Poland. This is my own interpretation of the facts and may be wrong.

- 2022.01.26, the existing members of the supervisory board were removed from the supervisory bodies, replacing them with 3 persons related to Tencent Holdings Limited. In July 2022, 1C Entertainment registered in Poland changed its name to Fulqrum Games - https:// Register.io/krs/660225/fulqrum-games. The message issued after the change of ownership indicated that within 6 months of the change, all companies with 1C related to 1C Entertainment in their name will change their name - https://cenega.pl/news/tencent-nabywa-polska-spolke-1c-entertainment /8756 . In summary, the press releases show that 1C Entertainment/Fulqrum and its subsidiaries have been acquired by Tencent.

I do not know how 1c/777 limited works and who was or is the shareholder of 777, but in my opinion it seems that the current Fulqrum is the owner of the rights to the GB brand.

As far as I know, in a LTD company, the share capital is calculated in proportion to the contribution made to the share capital, and the founders receive shares (Share) in the LTD company, which are the ownership right to a specific part of the company's assets and its profits. However, 1C-777 LIMITED is not a separate company to which the GB team, Jasson etc. would have rights. These are two companies that operated jointly.

1C-777 LIMITED, which is currently registered in Cyprus, according to the registers, has the rights to the trademarks of Tank Crew and Rise Of flight https://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE315619, but there are neither IL2 GB nor IL2 trademarks among them CLOD. In my opinion, this does not mean that the Tank Crew series currently belongs to someone other than Fulqrum - there have simply been a few sudden changes in companies in a short time, and we do not know from the text of the agreements the terms of the acquisition, which are secret.

It is also worth noting that from 4.2022 one of the companies of the 1C group - "1C-POLAND" has been subject to sanctions in Poland.

Based on this information, it is difficult to clearly state whether the acquisition of the 1C group was a planned action or a reaction to international events (according to press releases, it was planned from the end of 2021). is in doubt. If this had not happened, 1C Entertainment would probably also have been sanctioned due to the ownership structure after 02.2022.

Let's remember that Tencent bought 1C Entertainment for such components as: QLOC, a company providing services for game developers, Muve, which distributes gadgets, board games, as well as digital and boxed games, and Cenega, which provides services distribution of video games in Poland and abroad. The rights to the il2 GB series simply belong to the same company.

I don't think such a large corporation considered it worth leaving the il2 GB brand in its current form for a limited number of players and maintaining a team of programmers and creators for this purpose, and this may have resulted in the termination of cooperation with Jason. As far as I know, large corporations are not guided by sentiment, but by pure financial results. So if the game is reduced to the level of an arcade game and not a simulator, it is only because of market research assessing the potential profit and potential player base. The same goes for changing the game engine. If the assessment of the market potential in this segment is negative, there will be no point in maintaining it. Market pragmatism.

Ending my speeches. I think that the current activities - collectors plane are aimed at increasing the profits from the game to the maximum while reducing the workload for their production and refraining from making announcements that could affect the sale of all other IL2 GB products, including Normandy. The more so that the whole series is based in large part on the promises of what can be introduced in it, not what we actually have. The same situation happened in the case of the ROF.

In situations like this, taking into account changes in the company's owners, geopolitical situation and changes among key employees of the team, silence does not mean anything good, despite the fact that many try to look for rational explanations. In my opinion, the series we know is waiting for huge changes.

[Koziolek]

Thanks for the explanation

BTW

the first link is not working - you have to include the four digits at the end of it

[Lusekofte]

Always, there is someone ruining a discussion with facts

[CountZero]

6 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

Always, there is someone ruining a discussion with facts

 

[FuriousMeow]

49 minutes ago, acer884 said:

Spoiler

Hi,

I have been watching the forum for a long time, although I do not actively participate in it.

Seeing quite a lot of confusion and doubts regarding the rights to the GB series and the related expectations and fears, I will try to present some information that has appeared since February 2022 about 1C Entertainment in open sources of information in Poland, and based on Polish company registers, because it companies of the 1C group are/were registered in Poland. All indicated data are public in Poland. This is my own interpretation of the facts and may be wrong.

- 2022.01.26, the existing members of the supervisory board were removed from the supervisory bodies, replacing them with 3 persons related to Tencent Holdings Limited. In July 2022, 1C Entertainment registered in Poland changed its name to Fulqrum Games - https:// Register.io/krs/660225/fulqrum-games. The message issued after the change of ownership indicated that within 6 months of the change, all companies with 1C related to 1C Entertainment in their name will change their name - https://cenega.pl/news/tencent-nabywa-polska-spolke-1c-entertainment /8756 . In summary, the press releases show that 1C Entertainment/Fulqrum and its subsidiaries have been acquired by Tencent.

I do not know how 1c/777 limited works and who was or is the shareholder of 777, but in my opinion it seems that the current Fulqrum is the owner of the rights to the GB brand.

As far as I know, in a LTD company, the share capital is calculated in proportion to the contribution made to the share capital, and the founders receive shares (Share) in the LTD company, which are the ownership right to a specific part of the company's assets and its profits. However, 1C-777 LIMITED is not a separate company to which the GB team, Jasson etc. would have rights. These are two companies that operated jointly.

1C-777 LIMITED, which is currently registered in Cyprus, according to the registers, has the rights to the trademarks of Tank Crew and Rise Of flight https://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE315619, but there are neither IL2 GB nor IL2 trademarks among them CLOD. In my opinion, this does not mean that the Tank Crew series currently belongs to someone other than Fulqrum - there have simply been a few sudden changes in companies in a short time, and we do not know from the text of the agreements the terms of the acquisition, which are secret.

It is also worth noting that from 4.2022 one of the companies of the 1C group - "1C-POLAND" has been subject to sanctions in Poland.

Based on this information, it is difficult to clearly state whether the acquisition of the 1C group was a planned action or a reaction to international events (according to press releases, it was planned from the end of 2021). is in doubt. If this had not happened, 1C Entertainment would probably also have been sanctioned due to the ownership structure after 02.2022.

Let's remember that Tencent bought 1C Entertainment for such components as: QLOC, a company providing services for game developers, Muve, which distributes gadgets, board games, as well as digital and boxed games, and Cenega, which provides services distribution of video games in Poland and abroad. The rights to the il2 GB series simply belong to the same company.

I don't think such a large corporation considered it worth leaving the il2 GB brand in its current form for a limited number of players and maintaining a team of programmers and creators for this purpose, and this may have resulted in the termination of cooperation with Jason. As far as I know, large corporations are not guided by sentiment, but by pure financial results. So if the game is reduced to the level of an arcade game and not a simulator, it is only because of market research assessing the potential profit and potential player base. The same goes for changing the game engine. If the assessment of the market potential in this segment is negative, there will be no point in maintaining it. Market pragmatism.

Ending my speeches. I think that the current activities - collectors plane are aimed at increasing the profits from the game to the maximum while reducing the workload for their production and refraining from making announcements that could affect the sale of all other IL2 GB products, including Normandy. The more so that the whole series is based in large part on the promises of what can be introduced in it, not what we actually have. The same situation happened in the case of the ROF.

In situations like this, taking into account changes in the company's owners, geopolitical situation and changes among key employees of the team, silence does not mean anything good, despite the fact that many try to look for rational explanations. In my opinion, the series we know is waiting for huge changes.

 

 

Okay, but that's mostly based on 1C Entertainment - not 1C Game Studios.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by FuriousMeow
stuff

[Wardog5711]

 

1CGS owns Flying Circus, IL-2 Sturmovik and Caliber. That's it.

https://1cgs.net/en/#games

 

The studios is 10 years old, and it's growth can be seen here. From 20 employees in 2012 to 170 as of this month. 

https://1cgs.net/en/about

 

And about 1C Entertainment, I just had a discussion with my manager this morning about the 1C Entertainment/Fulcrum Publishing titles that still have sub-forums on this platform. The sale of COD and IL-2 1946 took place in February before I came aboard and I found it strange that they are still here since we don't own them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Koziolek]

OK, so I no longer want to hear any excuses that you cannot do something, because you are a small team ?

[Wardog5711]

They aren't all on the IL-2 team.  

But the IL-2 team has been expanding. 

However, compared to companies like Wargaming.net at 2000+ employees, we are a 'small team'. ?

[DD_Arthur]

36 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

 

1CGS owns Flying Circus, IL-2 Sturmovik and Caliber. That's it.

https://1cgs.net/en/#games

 

The studios is 10 years old, and it's growth can be seen here. From 20 employees in 2012 to 170 as of this month. 

https://1cgs.net/en/about

 

And about 1C Entertainment, I just had a discussion with my manager this morning about the 1C Entertainment/Fulcrum Publishing titles that still have sub-forums on this platform. The sale of COD and IL-2 1946 took place in February before I came aboard and I found it strange that they are still here since we don't own them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for clearing this up Wardog.

As we can see, Tencent do not own GBS so the misinformed, confused speculation is nonsense.

 

Not looking good for CLoD though…..

[Wardog5711]

Yeah, The CLoD thing is a mystery to me. I've had some PM's about not being able to contact folks about it and had to dig into the backstory.

I don't have a thing to do with those sub-forums, but there is a fair amount of cross-posting between players.

 

 

[Lusekofte]

Clod was my best hope for future ww2. I hope they manage whatever they are facing 

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Not looking good for CLoD though…..

I wish you would stop consistently slandering CloD. 
 

If you don’t like the game then just ignore it. It’s not that hard.

 

Once again, Luke is laughing at someone who likes CloD when he laughed at those who wanted an IL-2 GBs BoB and NA. Makes me wonder whether any of us should take this guy seriously.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Enceladus

[Wardog5711]

YES. Lets all just leave the CloD thing alone.

Both games exist in the same space, and both have their followers. 

There is no reason to have the thread devolve (again) over silliness.

[Lusekofte]

20 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

There is no reason to have the thread devolve (again) over silliness.

What do you mean? Silliness is what we do….

[Avimimus]

4 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

What do you mean? Silliness is what we do….

 

I cannot argue with this. I honestly do think it is good for everyone (especially ourselves) to not take ourselves too seriously.

 

1 hour ago, Koziolek said:

OK, so I no longer want to hear any excuses that you cannot do something, because you are a small team ?

 

Size is relative to the size of the task, yes?

[RoteDreizehn]

33 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

YES. Lets all just leave the CloD thing alone.

Both games exist in the same space, and both have their followers. 

There is no reason to have the thread devolve (again) over silliness.

 

Thanks Wardog5711 for clarify this. You must understand, to say nothing, constructs this silliness.
Thanks again...

[DD_Arthur]

59 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

I wish you would stop consistently slandering CloD. 
 

If you don’t like the game then just ignore it. It’s not that hard.

 

Once again, Luke is laughing at someone who likes CloD when he laughed at those who wanted an IL-2 GBs BoB and NA. Makes me wonder whether any of us should take this guy seriously.

Thanks but I’ll say what I like on these boards as long as it stays within the rules.

 

If you don’t like other peoples opinions there is an ‘ignore’ function available so you can personally enjoy your own wish.

 

 I can’t speak for Luke but I suspect in your case, whatever use he makes of emojis has nothing to do with whether you like CLoD.

 

 

[Lusekofte]

I like clod, I currently stopped like Gb. That might change. Both got great potential but I given up on the path GB is going. Clod made wellington flyable. I never give up on them, just for that. GB is simply not for me as is. SP except scripted campaigns are no good most of the time. I am around because of DCS and MSFS topics. And checking what this ends up with. Ironically I would not be in General if this new thing would be cleared up. I want GB to change, I want to see if it is in my favour. 

[JonRedcorn]

Honestly we just need the team to come out and tell us what the heck is going on.

[Guest deleted@83466]

They’re Russians, man, their communications are so way out in the cosmos, if you dig.

[ACG_Bussard]

16 hours ago, Wardog5711 said:

 

1CGS owns Flying Circus, IL-2 Sturmovik and Caliber. That's it.

https://1cgs.net/en/#games

 

The studios is 10 years old, and it's growth can be seen here. From 20 employees in 2012 to 170 as of this month. 

https://1cgs.net/en/about

 

And about 1C Entertainment, I just had a discussion with my manager this morning about the 1C Entertainment/Fulcrum Publishing titles that still have sub-forums on this platform. The sale of COD and IL-2 1946 took place in February before I came aboard and I found it strange that they are still here since we don't own them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Wardog5711

Thanks for the clarification that 1CGS still owns IL-2 BoX, FC and TankCrew. But imo that doesn´t answer the raised question in this thread enterly.

 

Could you please also confirm that the shares in 1C-777 Ltd, Limassol, Cyprus are still 100% owned and controlled by the developer and publisher 1C and have not been assigned / sold to Tencent?

 

The question arises because on https://1cgs.net/ 1C Game Studios is equated with 1C-777 Ltd.

 

In the event that clarification cannot be provided by you, I´m kindly asking you to forward this question to your higher authority. Maybe this question can be answered in tomorrow's stream. Thank you.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by 2./JG3_Bussard*
wording/translation

[acer884]

3 hours ago, 2./JG3_Bussard* said:

 

@Wardog5711

Dzięki za wyjaśnienie, że 1CGS nadal jest właścicielem IL-2 BoX, FC i TankCrew. Ale imo to nie odpowiada na zadane pytanie w tym wątku.

 

Czy możesz również potwierdzić, że udziały w 1C-777 Ltd, Limassol, Cypr są nadal w 100% własnością i są kontrolowane przez dewelopera i wydawcę 1C i nie zostały przypisane/sprzedane firmie Tencent?

 

Powstaje pytanie, ponieważ na https://1cgs.net/  1C Game Studios jest utożsamiane z 1C-777 Ltd.

 

W przypadku, gdy nie możesz udzielić wyjaśnień, uprzejmie proszę o przekazanie tego pytania do swojego wyższego organu. Może odpowiedź na to pytanie pojawi się w jutrzejszym streamie. Dziękuję Ci.

 

Exactly. Wardog's explanation indicates that 1CGS as a company has no ties to 1C Entertainment, but does not explain who became the owner of 1CGS. In open sources you can find information that 1CGS is registered in Cyprus, under the registration number: HE315619 https://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE315619

If I understand correctly, on October 1, 2021, this company established a company registered in Moscow and paying taxes there - LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY "1C GAME STUDIO", NIP/KPP 7707457595 in Moscow - https://www.rusprofile.ru/id/1217700465872. I understand that this is how financial exchange between companies takes place and I leave it without comment.

The owners of a company registered in Cyprus are not indicated by name, which is probably due to the regulations of this country, so we do not know who actually manages the business, but it is worth saying that FULQRUM PUBLISHING LTD is also registered at exactly the same address (and on the same floor of the building) https ://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE268076. According to this page, FULQRUM is the owner of two IŁ 2 brands (since 2013 and 2015).

Analyzing Jason Williams's statement in an interview on Stormbirds, one can get the impression that the ownership changes in 1C companies did affect the whole situation:

“Basically, 1C and its subsidiaries went through some changes, and half of the company in Eastern Europe was sold to Tencent, and then they invested in other parts. Although I was initially promised that nothing would change regarding the development of IL-2, I knew it would happen, and in the end it did [...]'.

[sevenless]

As for 1CGS. Their real core game for the future seems to be this one called Caliber. Understandable from a business point of view.

 

Caliber is a team-based online game (playcaliber.com)

 

(1) Калибр - YouTube

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, sevenless said:

As for 1CGS. Their real core game for the future seems to be this one called Caliber. Understandable from a business point of view.

 

Caliber is a team-based online game (playcaliber.com)

 

(1) Калибр - YouTube

 

Wow now isn't that interesting.

[Sky_Wolf]

Excellent breakdown of the situation, acer884. We are simply not going to get straight answers from Wardog5711 and his manager... it is out of their control. 

 

21 hours ago, acer884 said:

In situations like this, taking into account changes in the company's owners, geopolitical situation and changes among key employees of the team, silence does not mean anything good, despite the fact that many try to look for rational explanations. In my opinion, the series we know is waiting for huge changes.

 

21 hours ago, acer884 said:

I don't think such a large corporation considered it worth leaving the il2 GB brand in its current form for a limited number of players and maintaining a team of programmers and creators for this purpose, and this may have resulted in the termination of cooperation with Jason.

 

1 hour ago, acer884 said:

Analyzing Jason Williams's statement in an interview on Stormbirds, one can get the impression that the ownership changes in 1C companies did affect the whole situation:

“Basically, 1C and its subsidiaries went through some changes, and half of the company in Eastern Europe was sold to Tencent, and then they invested in other parts. Although I was initially promised that nothing would change regarding the development of IL-2, I knew it would happen, and in the end it did [...]'.

 

[6./ZG26_Loke]

18 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

I like clod, I currently stopped like Gb. That might change. Both got great potential but I given up on the path GB is going. Clod made wellington flyable. I never give up on them, just for that. GB is simply not for me as is. SP except scripted campaigns are no good most of the time. I am around because of DCS and MSFS topics. And checking what this ends up with. Ironically I would not be in General if this new thing would be cleared up. I want GB to change, I want to see if it is in my favour. 

My controls have never likede Clod, and therefore never really flown it. 

Like you, I do not like the path GB and FC have taken. 

Hopefully it will change course in the future, but doubt it will. 

[ACG_Bussard]

2 hours ago, acer884 said:

Exactly. Wardog's explanation indicates that 1CGS as a company has no ties to 1C Entertainment, but does not explain who became the owner of 1CGS. In open sources you can find information that 1CGS is registered in Cyprus, under the registration number: HE315619 https://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE315619

If I understand correctly, on October 1, 2021, this company established a company registered in Moscow and paying taxes there - LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY "1C GAME STUDIO", NIP/KPP 7707457595 in Moscow - https://www.rusprofile.ru/id/1217700465872. I understand that this is how financial exchange between companies takes place and I leave it without comment.

The owners of a company registered in Cyprus are not indicated by name, which is probably due to the regulations of this country, so we do not know who actually manages the business, but it is worth saying that FULQRUM PUBLISHING LTD is also registered at exactly the same address (and on the same floor of the building) https ://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE268076. According to this page, FULQRUM is the owner of two IŁ 2 brands (since 2013 and 2015).

Analyzing Jason Williams's statement in an interview on Stormbirds, one can get the impression that the ownership changes in 1C companies did affect the whole situation:

“Basically, 1C and its subsidiaries went through some changes, and half of the company in Eastern Europe was sold to Tencent, and then they invested in other parts. Although I was initially promised that nothing would change regarding the development of IL-2, I knew it would happen, and in the end it did [...]'.

wow, that's an interesting find: https ://opencorporates.com/companies/cy/HE268076

 

I understand the  informations form opencoperates.com that on 5/27/2022 the company name was changed from 1C Online Games Ltd. to Fulqrum Publishing Ltd. and on 6/23/2022 the shares in that company were transferred to a new shareholder/owner.

 

If the information of opencoperates.com about the trademarks is really correct and up to date,  Fulqrum Publishing Ltd. (former 1C Online Games Ltd.) owns now the trademarks of IL-2 Sturmovik registered at the United States Patent and Trademark Office in 2013 and 2015. It is therefore obvious that these are intended for the US market. 

 

For the European Union a trademark  for IL-2 Sturmovik registered in 2011 until 2031 belongs to 1C Games Online Ltd. too:

EUIPO - eSearch (europa.eu)

and

EUIPO - eSearch (europa.eu)

 

As already suggested on 12/23/2022, it would be really good if the management could clarify as soon as possible if, how and by whom the IL-2 BOS franchise will be continued, operated and controlled. With the new findings, it is once again evident that the management should clarify if 1C or Tencent are shareholder of the legal entities that own the rights of IL-2 BOS.

 

Cheers

Edited December 28, 2022 by 2./JG3_Bussard*
Addition regarding the European trademark

[Wardog5711]

Caliber has it's own separate development team so it is not poaching resources from IL-2.

Even the open job ads are broken down by team.

It's a Call of Duty style game that caters to a different audience than most of you guys.  

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

Caliber has it's own separate development team so it is not poaching resources from IL-2.

 

Good to know

 

About Us (1cgs.net)

 

[Avimimus]

I think it is worth distinguishing between 1C entertainment and 1CGS - they were always separately incorporated, were they not?

[Guest deleted@83466]

This discussion has become almost too convoluted to follow for a casual morning read.  1C, 1C Entertainment, 1CGS, 1C/777, 1C Games, Tencent, Fulqrum….

[BornToBattle]

Lots of “in the know” insight with that interview. Was always curious as to learning more of the nuts and bolts concerning his departure. Hearing that a Pacific title is indeed doable was interesting too so…..? And still waiting for that B-25 to be flyable big time along with the in house FC career mode. Good read and thanks Stormbirds for that.

[acer884]

I agree, with the amount of information we have, we can only speculate and wait for the decision of the actual owners. I was just trying to systematize some public information, but with the assumption that some of it may be outdated/updated at the moment (e.g. brand ownership pair)

[Lusekofte]

I love how they made this site like Elon musk version of Twitter. 
only truth out there is conspiracy we create

[Trooper117]

I really don't give a rats backside who owns what... all most people want to know is if all our present content will be compatible with the new project.

[FuriousMeow]

Why does it matter if present content works with any new project? You still have what you have and can play what you have, just like RoF still, or Il-2 1946, or CloD. It just doesn't get any further development. *IF* that's the case of a new engine/project fork.

[Alexmarine]

46 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

This discussion has become almost too convoluted to follow for a casual morning read.  1C, 1C Entertainment, 1CGS, 1C/777, 1C Games, Tencent, Fulqrum….

 

By the time you will give it a casual evening read I wouldn't be surprised to see the Illuminati, the Templars and the Trilateral Commission added to that list 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

18 minutes ago, FuriousMeow said:

Why does it matter if present content works with any new project?

Because we've been waiting for Allied bombers for 9 years.

We would like to keep everything in one install.

As good as the game already is, there's still a lot that would add to the experience (fuel management, navigation,...).

If ever we make it to the Pacific, we will at some point want to fly our P40's, P51's,... against the Japanese.

We don't want to wait I don't know how many years before we can fly our favourite plane in some new project.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[Bonnot]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

too convoluted to follow for a casual morning read.  1C, 1C Entertainment, 1CGS, 1C/777, 1C Games, Tencent, Fulqrum….

Convoluted is an euphemism ......

surely this one doesn't smell so sweet ?

[FuriousMeow]

2 hours ago, FlyingShark said:

Because we've been waiting for Allied bombers for 9 years.

 

 

Well, whoever "we" is, they've been waiting for something that wasn't promised.

 

Even AoE and AoTP were separate, one world WW2 theater games are rare - and expensive. The time to develop them too eventually renders technology used obsolete to the point that at some point a fork must be made.

 

I've bought games with 109s, Spits, Wildcats and Zeros several times over in addition to monthly subs. Eventually a new product line happens.