Magic Bullet dev question.

[354thFG_Panda_]

1 hour ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

Its a well known phenomenon that many larger aircraft, in particular the B24, are practically made out of papermache.

 

https://gfycat.com/heavenlyoptimalbetafish

 

I mean, I think we can all agree this is just a little bit ridiculous no?

 

Harder is more realistic, always

(edit forgot to add /s)

Edited December 25, 2022 by theRedPanda

[SCG_motoadve]

24 minutes ago, theRedPanda said:

 

Harder is more realistic, always

War Thunder must be the most realistic simulator.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, =RS=EnvyC said:

Its a well known phenomenon that many larger aircraft, in particular the B24, are practically made out of papermache.

 

https://gfycat.com/heavenlyoptimalbetafish

 

I mean, I think we can all agree this is just a little bit ridiculous no?

 

We're supposed to draw a conclusion from...an animated GIF?

[Charon]

9 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Round is he_020mm_92g_20g_object.txt

  Reveal hidden contents

 Options Sphere Hit, external burst

Radius=5.7 // The radius of the sphere of influence of the explosion, which determines the selection of objects
TNT_equ=0.02 // TNT equivalent for atmospheric shock wave simulation

// Explosive Impact: range, (-1 not used), pairs (armor, damage behind armor)
ArmorFoug=0.0,-1, 2,899,  0,1798
ArmorFoug=0.6,-1,              0,455
Armor Foug=1.2,-1,              0,127
Armor Foug=1.9,-1,              0,50

// Shrapnel impact
ShrapnelQuantity=41
FragmentMass=0.0007
// Single shard: range, speed, pairs (armor, damage behind armor)
ArmorShr=0.0,1069, 4,40, 3,101,          0,162
ArmorShr=2.8,964,            3,33, 2,82, 0,132
ArmorShr=5.7,861,                       2,26, 0,105

 

B26 cockpit fragmentation sphere of protection info

  Reveal hidden contents

SphereHitProtection=0 //Armored gunner/pilot protection from shrapnel when the cockpit is closed

[SphereProtectionBoxOpen] // If this block exists, then the pilot's armor against fragments is set on the sides, if there is no block, then the general parameter SphereHitProtection= is used
FovH=90 // The full angle of the horizontal opening of the pyramidal bell of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is determined as ArmorFront
FovV=90 // Full angle of the vertical opening of the pyramidal flare of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is defined as ArmorFront
// The remaining 5 flares are determined automatically by the central symmetry relative to the front
ArmorFront=12
ArmorBack=9
ArmorTop=6
ArmorBottom=0
ArmorRight=6
ArmorLeft=6
[end]

SphereProtectionBoxClose] // If this block exists, then the pilot's armor against fragments is set on the sides, if there is no block, then the general parameter SphereHitProtection= is used
FovH=90 // The full angle of the horizontal opening of the pyramidal bell of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is determined as ArmorFront
FovV=90 // Full angle of the vertical opening of the pyramidal flare of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is defined as ArmorFront
// The remaining 5 flares are determined automatically by the central symmetry relative to the front
ArmorFront=12
ArmorBack=9
ArmorTop=6
ArmorBottom=0
ArmorRight=6
ArmorLeft=6
[end]

energyloss="",true,0.23,300 // Bullet energy loss on impact, first equivalent armor on entry and exit, second joules per meter of travel inside the hitbox

 

The track is linked in my post, btw.

 

From what you posted, I'd guess it's a fragmentation issue rather than explosive. That seems to have the greater range. Maybe something to do with how armor penetration works?

 

Incidentally, it seems odd that the B-26 pilot has more armor above (the plexiglass?) than below. Bug?

 

You're convincing me that I might need to start playing around with modding, hm.

[purK]

10 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

 

Background info for you, the way I read things right and left side armor is 6 so assuming I understand how this works correctly (which may not be the case) it should not be the explosive impact or shrapnel fragments penetrating the cockpit unless the armor degrades with successive hits (ie you hit in this location multiple times and successive damage overwhelmed the armor, I do not know if it works like this) - if you have a track of this it is likely worth passing to the devs to study.

<edit> I guess there may be another set of armor values for the B26 cockpit for purely explosive damage that I haven't seen or realised what the values are for. It's all guesswork on my part after all based on comments in files. If the armor for explosive damage is 0 and you hit a few times at less than 1.9 m I suppose it is possible that 50 points of damage transferred enough times. Still worth a track to the devs in my opinion.

 

Round is he_020mm_92g_20g_object.txt

  Reveal hidden contents

 Options Sphere Hit, external burst

Radius=5.7 // The radius of the sphere of influence of the explosion, which determines the selection of objects
TNT_equ=0.02 // TNT equivalent for atmospheric shock wave simulation

// Explosive Impact: range, (-1 not used), pairs (armor, damage behind armor)
ArmorFoug=0.0,-1, 2,899,  0,1798
ArmorFoug=0.6,-1,              0,455
Armor Foug=1.2,-1,              0,127
Armor Foug=1.9,-1,              0,50

// Shrapnel impact
ShrapnelQuantity=41
FragmentMass=0.0007
// Single shard: range, speed, pairs (armor, damage behind armor)
ArmorShr=0.0,1069, 4,40, 3,101,          0,162
ArmorShr=2.8,964,            3,33, 2,82, 0,132
ArmorShr=5.7,861,                       2,26, 0,105

 

B26 cockpit fragmentation sphere of protection info

  Reveal hidden contents

SphereHitProtection=0 //Armored gunner/pilot protection from shrapnel when the cockpit is closed

[SphereProtectionBoxOpen] // If this block exists, then the pilot's armor against fragments is set on the sides, if there is no block, then the general parameter SphereHitProtection= is used
FovH=90 // The full angle of the horizontal opening of the pyramidal bell of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is determined as ArmorFront
FovV=90 // Full angle of the vertical opening of the pyramidal flare of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is defined as ArmorFront
// The remaining 5 flares are determined automatically by the central symmetry relative to the front
ArmorFront=12
ArmorBack=9
ArmorTop=6
ArmorBottom=0
ArmorRight=6
ArmorLeft=6
[end]

SphereProtectionBoxClose] // If this block exists, then the pilot's armor against fragments is set on the sides, if there is no block, then the general parameter SphereHitProtection= is used
FovH=90 // The full angle of the horizontal opening of the pyramidal bell of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is determined as ArmorFront
FovV=90 // Full angle of the vertical opening of the pyramidal flare of the angles of the normal to the cladding, according to which the cladding face is defined as ArmorFront
// The remaining 5 flares are determined automatically by the central symmetry relative to the front
ArmorFront=12
ArmorBack=9
ArmorTop=6
ArmorBottom=0
ArmorRight=6
ArmorLeft=6
[end]

energyloss="",true,0.23,300 // Bullet energy loss on impact, first equivalent armor on entry and exit, second joules per meter of travel inside the hitbox

 

Armor does degrade with successive hits - for example see video below (the video actually shows the 50 cal is too weak or the 109s armor is too strong, it shouldn't stop 2x .50s from such close range)

Also, don't base your conclusions just on what you can see, there's many files and other things related to the DM that are inaccessible.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Krupnski

[Charon]

1 hour ago, Krupnski said:

Armor does degrade with successive hits - for example see video below (the video actually shows the 50 cal is too weak or the 109s armor is too strong, it shouldn't stop 2x .50s from such close range)

Would you mind sharing the mission file you used for this test? I can't reproduce this myself (A-20 + G-6/G-14/K-4, I tried all 3) and I'm curious what parameters are different here. I'm getting first-shot kills most of the time, and occasionally 2, but never 3.

[=RS=EnvyC]

-

Edited December 26, 2022 by =RS=EnvyC

[RedeyeStorm]

Why don’t you guys post trackfiles instead of movies? As said by Wardog trackfiles have information they can work with and movies do not? You put in a lot of work but without trackfiles no changes will be made (if I read commentary of the Dev’s right).

[LukeFF]

28 minutes ago, RedeyeStorm said:

Why don’t you guys post trackfiles instead of movies? As said by Wardog trackfiles have information they can work with and movies do not? You put in a lot of work but without trackfiles no changes will be made (if I read commentary of the Dev’s right).

 

Yes, track files and mission files give the developers what they need to see what might be the issue. These files are a far superior source of information than a YouTube video, which obviously is only going to show things from one point of view at any given time.

[Stonehouse]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:32 AM, Charon said:

The track is linked in my post, btw.

 

From what you posted, I'd guess it's a fragmentation issue rather than explosive. That seems to have the greater range. Maybe something to do with how armor penetration works?

I wonder if it is the hit allocation that is the issue? I haven't had time to try to watch your track and get it in Tacview but it looks from your screenshot like you are lower than the B26 so I wonder if hits from fragments are being allocated to the bottom of the cockpit sphere of protection where armor = 0. If there is some sort of random weighted hit allocation for the 41 fragments from each of your shells it could easily be the weighting is a bit off and needs adjustment.

 

I think you'd have to post the track and explanatory post over in the technical issues and bug reports sub forum to increase the chance of a dev looking at it. I imagine they monitor things there but possibly/probably may not see a post here especially in a 3-page thread. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Stonehouse

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:55 AM, drewm3i-VR said:

Can you provide a track? Shouldn't be too hard.

 

I've set up the Nvidia shadowplay delayed recording.  I don't have much room on my hard drive right now and this is something that doesn't happen all the time.  If I do capture it, I'll send it out.  Like I said before though, it could just be my perception.  The only thing I can say is that I've seen it more than twice.  

Just make me a promise:  If I really am just "seeing things", hold off on sending the white coats with the butterfly nets.  lol!

 

On 12/23/2022 at 4:10 PM, omicron_21 said:

do similar PK's happen if you fly the IL-2 (either 41, 42, or 43 version)?   If they don't then it seems like a matter of the material toughness around the pilot...  But if you get PK's in Il2 then it's definitely a much bigger issue... probably..

 

Even that can be a bit hard to use as a foundation for more testing, unfortunately.   If you're in an IL-2 (any year) and you get PK'd from directly 6o'c, one of the first things I'd ask is how much fuel you have taken.  

That big metal tank behind the pilot seat, that you and the gunner sit back-to-back with, is the main fuel tank - which is the pilot armor.  It's been pretty established that, if the fuel doesn't ignite, it does have a dampening effect on bullets going into the tank.  If the tank is empty, then the bullet passes through both sidewalls of the fuel tank alot easier.  

Technically, fuel tanks that are used as pilot armor should pretty well degrade protection above the fuel level in the tank.  If you're an Il-2 pilot and the fuel tank behind you is half empty, then you should probably only get somewhat ok protection above the kidneys and below the kidney line, a bit better "padding".   

 

Same with the 109's, the fuel tank, when full, should be harder to get past with medium caliber rounds than when it's low or empty.  That fuel tank is under the pilot seat and is shaped that it protects the pilot's backside and lower back. Basically, if you were doing an easy low-6 surprise attack on an unsuspecting 109, that's the +2 or +3 degrees angle you would be shooting up into that part of the plane.  I would imagine, pilot armor-wise, that a 109 with a full fuel tank might be a bit more durable than low or empty in that situation.  

 

Then again, I'm not sure what level of damage detail (if any) is modelled for fuel tanks that also partially functioned as armor.  I would imagine at the very least, the fuel tank is "sturdier" when the tank(s) is/are full and over time and fuel usage the whole tank degrades protection - instead of monitoring the fuel line in the tank on level flight. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

On 12/23/2022 at 1:20 PM, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'll set up my Nvidia game recorder to use the delayed capture option.  (Saves 3 minutes and doesn't actually keep them until I press the button)  

I'll see if I can get a capture of it.  It doesn't happen often, but if it does, I'll try to get at least something to review.  

It could just be my perception, I admit.   

I completely forgot about that.  Thank you for posting that.  That is a great tip!

[Knarley-Bob]

On 12/26/2022 at 3:13 AM, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, track files and mission files give the developers what they need to see what might be the issue. These files are a far superior source of information than a YouTube video, which obviously is only going to show things from one point of view at any given time.

Here we go, instant death...........

missionReport(2022-12-28_15-15-45).zip