correcting RPM/MAP -> reduced rpms (for longer WEP MAP time) with high/max MAP not allowed

[357th_KW]

Nice find.  It appears to be something of a gray area like the emergency power time limits themselves, which explains why there are cases of pilots using reduced rpm with high manifold pressures without instantly destroying their engines.

[the_emperor]

I am not so sure. Maybe in the case of lower MAPs like the soviet Yaks engine which, but in case of the high MAPs of late war allied fighter (60/15lbs-25lbs) there should be a definite limit how low rpms can be and there should be no increased time limit on high/max MAP settings if rpms are decreased.

As the manuals specifically allow the use of emergency MAP only at max rpm. But yeah, the timer mechanic is tied to this problem, they are both sides of the same coin.

Edited May 29, 2023 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

From Allison V-1710-F manual April 1943:

[the_emperor]

an easy fix (for WEP use at least) would be to "gate" the throttle (as it was literally done in British and US fighter)

at 12lbs/61inches/1.3ata/1000mm. and make this 100% throttle

and if you "break the wire" (literally in US/British fighters) you will immediately go to max boost (110%) (as there was not enough throttle space irl to manipulate the trottle as we do in the game), and your rpms will automatically set to max rpm if you have not done before so and reducing rpms will only be possible if throttle is reduced to 100% before.

 

this at least would stop those weird shenanigans (contradicting the manuals) to use WEP without the corresponding rpms and make the us use  WEP as it was used (and allowed to use) irl.

Edited June 7, 2023 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

On 4/11/2023 at 5:52 PM, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

Just gonna add that the extended WEP glitch won't work on the tempest/typhoon because it doesn't fit the glitch rules I described in a post above, and not due to any intentional modeling by 1C. Just in case anyone tries this on those planes then wonders what this threads about.

correct.

here it is the same with the P-51. both have an engine regime setting with full rpm:

P-51: combat 61 inches at 3000rpm

Tempest: climb 7lbs at 3700rpm

so reducing rpm at all out/higher  MAP will not grand you longer time on higher/all out MAP.

But this glitch does work in those setting by reducing rpm.

A weird side effect of the timer mechanic, and one that should be corrected fast since it grands some planes a nice advantage over others.

Edited July 4, 2023 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

[the_emperor]

Though from a P-51 H (Jan 1945) manual, its stil applies...full MAP only at full rpm...

will this issue get reviewed in the near future?

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

P-63 manual

[357th_KW]

Interesting that they added "THIS IS NECESSARY TO AVOID POSSIBLE DETONATION IN HOT WEATHER WITH LOW GRADE FUELS." 

[the_emperor]

P-39Q flight Instructions

[VA_Doc]

I've been keeping track of this topic for quite some time and I agree that the sim needs to go away from the timer situation on the engines and see detonation properly implemented.

 

In the P47 specifically, you can achieve unlimited combat engine power by doing the following:
Turbo Boost lever fully forward

MAP throttle set at 65"

Prop RPM set at 2500-2550 RPM

Mixture set to full rich

At these engine settings, as long as you keep your airspeed up to help cool the engine, you can keep yourself in combat mode until you run the aircraft out of fuel (with 100% at takeoff). Keeping the mixture at full rich helps maintain engine temps. The max achievable airspeed at this setting is 355 indicated at sea level. This effectively doubles your available combat power because you will run out of fuel before the engine hits its maximum timer. This equates to roughly 30 minutes after take-off if you maintain these settings. If you engage your water injection, you gain about 6 MPH on the deck.

Here is the funny part... this EXCEEDS the aircraft's capability at normal combat engine settings... which totally baffles me. At the standard combat settings of 2700 RPM, turbo and throttle locked to maintain 65" and running auto-rich only gives a max airspeed of 345. I assume that this is because of the variation in prop pitch being controlled by the governor. 

 

I've experimented with many different planes on both the Allied and Axis sides and if you play around enough, you can effectively "game" the game. I've been able to find optimal settings for 109's, 190's, 38's... many different aircraft.
 

[nesher666]

Spoiler

14 hours ago, VA_Doc said:

I've been keeping track of this topic for quite some time and I agree that the sim needs to go away from the timer situation on the engines and see detonation properly implemented.

 

In the P47 specifically, you can achieve unlimited combat engine power by doing the following:
Turbo Boost lever fully forward

MAP throttle set at 65"

Prop RPM set at 2500-2550 RPM

Mixture set to full rich

At these engine settings, as long as you keep your airspeed up to help cool the engine, you can keep yourself in combat mode until you run the aircraft out of fuel (with 100% at takeoff). Keeping the mixture at full rich helps maintain engine temps. The max achievable airspeed at this setting is 355 indicated at sea level. This effectively doubles your available combat power because you will run out of fuel before the engine hits its maximum timer. This equates to roughly 30 minutes after take-off if you maintain these settings. If you engage your water injection, you gain about 6 MPH on the deck.

Here is the funny part... this EXCEEDS the aircraft's capability at normal combat engine settings... which totally baffles me. At the standard combat settings of 2700 RPM, turbo and throttle locked to maintain 65" and running auto-rich only gives a max airspeed of 345. I assume that this is because of the variation in prop pitch being controlled by the governor. 

 

I've experimented with many different planes on both the Allied and Axis sides and if you play around enough, you can effectively "game" the game. I've been able to find optimal settings for 109's, 190's, 38's... many different aircraft.
 

 

 

Was that a D-22, D-28 or both? Also with the 150 octane fuel or just without that?

 

The fact that the ~2500-2600 RPM setting gives the best straight line speed (especially at high altitudes) in case of the Jug is known and AFAK it is supported by official reports (you may find them here in the forums too).

 

As for the timer "gaming", that seems questionable, however the R2800 was known and documented to survive extreme long high perf. tests, but the situation is still not ideal, meanwhile it is not the only a/c in game to have this kind of "issue" due to the whole timer system of IL2 GB.

[ACG_Cass]

18 hours ago, VA_Doc said:

 

In the P47 specifically, you can achieve unlimited combat engine power by doing the following:
Turbo Boost lever fully forward

MAP throttle set at 65"

Prop RPM set at 2500-2550 RPM

Mixture set to full rich

At these engine settings, as long as you keep your airspeed up to help cool the engine, you can keep yourself in combat mode until you run the aircraft out of fuel (with 100% at takeoff).

Unless something has unintentionally changed in the latest update, this isn't true. You get ~25 mins of Combat power at 2500rpm 65" with 150oct fuel. 60" I believe gives you 45 min.

[VA_Doc]

4 hours ago, ACG_Cass said:

Unless something has unintentionally changed in the latest update, this isn't true. You get ~25 mins of Combat power at 2500rpm 65" with 150oct fuel. 60" I believe gives you 45 min.

I assure you, on this subject, nothing has changed for quite some time. Airborne last night for 45 minutes on one tank of gas running those settings. Unless you run your temps too high, it's unlimited or at least, you can do this until you RTB for fuel because the P47 is a gas hog.

7 hours ago, nesher666 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Was that a D-22, D-28 or both? Also with the 150 octane fuel or just without that?

 

The fact that the ~2500-2600 RPM setting gives the best straight line speed (especially at high altitudes) in case of the Jug is known and AFAK it is supported by official reports (you may find them here in the forums too).

 

As for the timer "gaming", that seems questionable, however the R2800 was known and documented to survive extreme long high perf. tests, but the situation is still not ideal, meanwhile it is not the only a/c in game to have this kind of "issue" due to the whole timer system of IL2 GB.

Both models experience this increase in available combat power but the D22 is faster because of the larger prop and more streamlined airframe. 150 octane.

Edited February 25, 2024 by VA_Doc

[the_emperor]

Allison V-1710-89/91 manual