Developer Diary #336 Discussion

[Props]

I agree with Dragon1-1, there are surviving and in many cases, flyable IJN and JAAF fighters all over the world. In fact after researching this quite extensively , it seems that the only aircraft not to be found is the Ki-44 Tojo and the Betty twin bomber, as well as a few lesser bombers. On top of that there is a ton of technical data available from a bunch of sources, some are in private hands, and others like the US National Archives, US air force, and US Navy. There are also many tech sources available in Japan, but sadly many of these have not been translated so are a bit hard to access. So the argument that it's impossible to make Japanese aircraft for simming due to a lack of tech specs and surviving aircraft never really holds water in IMHO.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Not true. Planes of Fame museum has a whole module's worth of Japanese planes in flying condition.

 

They also want a ridiculous sum of money for anyone wanting to have a closer look at them. I know this from personal experience.

[Dragon1-1]

Given that those are some of the last remaining examples of those machines in the world, I kind of understand. Still, this does move making the aircraft in question from "impossible" to merely "expensive". Hopefully, they documented their restoration of those aircraft and would be willing to share their findings. To restore those, they had to have a good look at the guts, and that's what you want. You don't necessarily need direct access except for laser-scanning them, if that's your thing. Of course, nothing's stopping them from charging through the nose for the docs, too, but that's certainly an easier thing to haggle about than for a permission to mess around with a unique historic artefacts.

[AndyJWest]

How authentic are these restorations though? Do they have the correct engines? The correct instrumentation? They may well look authentic externally, but that may not be enough.

 

And is there data available to build an accurate flight model? You can't get that from looking at a restored aircraft.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

How authentic are these restorations though? Do they have the correct engines? The correct instrumentation? They may well look authentic externally, but that may not be enough.

 

Some are better than others. I know the A6M at Planes of Fame is the only airworthy Zero that has the correct engine fitted to it. But, like I said - and I don't mean to bash them, but still  - good luck trying to get anything useful out them without having to pay a king's ransom. Not all museums are like this, thankfully (Jason proved that with the Tempest and Typhoon research), but there are still more than a few museums/collections out there that view their planes as closely guarded secrets that dare not be shared with anyone outside on their inner circle of friends.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Generally warbird owners see flight simmers as an annoyance, at best.

[Gambit21]

56 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Some are better than others. I know the A6M at Planes of Fame is the only airworthy Zero that has the correct engine fitted to it. But, like I said - and I don't mean to bash them, but still  - good luck trying to get anything useful out them without having to pay a king's ransom. Not all museums are like this, thankfully (Jason proved that with the Tempest and Typhoon research), but there are still more than a few museums/collections out there that view their planes as closely guarded secrets that dare not be shared with anyone outside on their inner circle of friends.

All too true.

I’m about to make some calls (it may not get past 1 call) regarding access to a particular aircraft. Efforts before were shut down immediately. New owners etc now - but I’m not going to get hopeful yet. It’s a very corporate.

 

 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

47 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Generally warbird owners see flight simmers as an annoyance, at best.

They're probably jealous of our skills.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[DBFlyguy]

12 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Generally warbird owners see flight simmers as an annoyance, at best.

How would they even know unless your randomly starting conversations with... "Hey, do you play (insert random game here)" as your first sentence???  ?

 

[Gambit21]

5 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

How would they even know unless your randomly starting conversations with... "Hey, do you play (insert random game here)" as your first sentence???  ?

 

Because people walk up to them at airshows and such when they’re on static display, and start talking about how they also fly the Mustang in IL2 or whatever.

 

 

I know better - but you know it happens.

I had to add that last part before the “umm…how do you know that Gambit?” was typed. ? 

[Alexmarine]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Generally warbird owners see flight simmers as an annoyance, at best.

 

They are just jealous that we can let the intrusive thoughts win while we fly our digital planes 

[Gambit21]

I have had the (brief) discussion regarding access for modeling/content creation purposes - but with a curator. I’m sure he was just as annoyed however.

 

 

[Noisemaker]

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

They also want a ridiculous sum of money for anyone wanting to have a closer look at them. I know this from personal experience.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I have had the (brief) discussion regarding access for modeling/content creation purposes - but with a curator. I’m sure he was just as annoyed however.

 

 

Yet another reason to give up on this flight of fancy called the Pacific, and focus on what we have in hand.  Italy.

[Gambit21]

10 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

 

 

Yet another reason to give up on this flight of fancy called the Pacific, and focus on what we have in hand.  Italy.

 

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

18 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

 

 

Yet another reason to give up on this flight of fancy called the Pacific, and focus on what we have in hand.  Italy.

Why can't we have both? The only thing I wish they'd give up on is the Eastern Front.

[DBFlyguy]

1 hour ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Why can't we have both? The only thing I wish they'd give up on is the Eastern Front.

 

This.

Edited January 18, 2023 by DBFlyguy

[Gambit21]

I can't even imagine a flight sim developer taking on the landscape, coastal villages, etc. They're so unique, characteristic of that region...and complex. Nevermind the geography. 

Just to do a small area would be a gigantic undertaking, neverminded a region large enough for a worthwhile map. This is why Daniel said "too much to do"

Now, if a talented map team @drewm3i-VR wanted to take on this daunting, complex, multi-year, herculean task. Then I think you should. 

A dev team running on a reasonable development/delivery cycle with financial partners looking at revenue...never.

 

 

PTO on the other hand... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

24 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

PTO on the other hand... 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by BlitzPig_EL

[spreckair]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

I can't even imagine a flight sim developer taking on the landscape, coastal villages, etc. They're so unique, characteristic of that region...and complex. Nevermind the geography. 

Just to do a small area would be a gigantic undertaking, neverminded a region large enough for a worthwhile map.

But I have to wonder if a good use of AI could do this, and quickly too.  If I, a total non-dev, can access an AI site and have a new rendering of a WWII furball depicted as a Van Gogh painting in minutes, I wonder what a dev could do with an AI tool.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Trouble with that is you will have every Italian member of this community in here with torches and pitchforks complaining about the inaccurate map, just like many Northern Europeans do about the Rhineland map.

[Cloyd]

57 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Trouble with that is you will have every Italian member of this community in here with torches and pitchforks complaining about the inaccurate map, just like many Northern Europeans do about the Rhineland map.

If the map doesn't have my grandmother's house in Enna, Sicily, or my grandfather's house in Messina, I will be p1ssed! Where are the torches and pitchforks being handed out? ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Right with you Cloyd, my grandmother was from Naples, and grandfather from Sicily.

[CountZero]

And thats why were off to N.Korea, no one to complain about its map ?

 

[FuriousMeow]

12 hours ago, spreckair said:

But I have to wonder if a good use of AI could do this, and quickly too.  If I, a total non-dev, can access an AI site and have a new rendering of a WWII furball depicted as a Van Gogh painting in minutes, I wonder what a dev could do with an AI tool.

 

I don't know what AI you are using, but the AI images I've seen produced - there's no way in Hades any current day "AI" would produce a decent map. There would be hundreds of man hours to go back and fix all of its screwups that it would just have been better to do it the way they currently do. AI is far from Artificial Intelligence these days, especially on the Intelligence part. It's still very early computer learning output, no intelligence to be had.

[Picchio]

11 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Trouble with that is you will have every Italian member of this community in here with torches and pitchforks complaining about the inaccurate map, just like many Northern Europeans do about the Rhineland map.

 

Without exagerations, I'm pretty sure that at least some of those complaints are still well justified, considering the scale of some of the inaccuracies... of course the result will always be a compromise.

[FliegerAD]

13 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Trouble with that is you will have every Italian member of this community in here with torches and pitchforks complaining about the inaccurate map, just like many Northern Europeans do about the Rhineland map.

 

That's just what we do.

 

Still, we bought it.

[Irishratticus72]

3 hours ago, CountZero said:

And thats why were off to N.Korea, no one to complain about its map ?

 

North Korea map is best Korea map.

[DBFlyguy]

Anyone got relatives in Japan ?.....

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by DBFlyguy

[mspyker13]

Whatever's easiest for them, right?

[dbuile]

Well, they're little kings protecting their castle...  They probably invested a lot to "own" such artifacts, and think museums should broker their prestige of ownership into income.  Every time they allow access that results in highly-detailed, published output, it reduces the importance of them being gatekeepers.  And if such output is even more profitable for the other party, they want $$$ compensation for enabling it.

 

It's understandable, but alas, not laudable.  Make it a collector plane, and give them a cut of each purchase ? 

 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

I hope it'll be up for pre order soon, with some approximate time of delivery.

 

Have a nice day.