Dud Scramble Missions

[Russkly]

v14.1.3.

 

Flying a 73 Sqn. (Hurricane) career in summer 1941 (which I understand is actually 1940 in 'real war' terms) I've just had 3 scramble missions in a row, here there wasn't another flight, friendly or enemy, anywhere on the map.

 

The combat report contained no activity whatsoever.

 

Also then had an intercept mission over Wissant with one other friendly flight on the map, but no enemy flights at all.

 

Again, combat report bereft of any acitivity.

 

Am I doing something wrong (config is all default apart from air starts, no. of missions credited and save AI from itself), or is this simply part of the programmed randomness of war?

 

Apologies if this should be in the Issues thread, but I'm not sure how much time Pat gets to go through that thread.

 

Also, I've ended up leading the Sqn. as a Fg Off with 10 Plt Offs and 3 Wt Offs!  Replacements for the horrendous and seemingly unavoidable losses suffered thus far are all Plt Offs or Wt Offs - never get a Sqn Ldr or even a Flt Lt.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Russkly

[kraut1]

3 hours ago, Russkly said:

v14.1.3.

 

Flying a 73 Sqn. (Hurricane) career in summer 1941 (which I understand is actually 1940 in 'real war' terms) I've just had 3 scramble missions in a row, here there wasn't another flight, friendly or enemy, anywhere on the map.

 

The combat report contained no activity whatsoever.

 

Also then had an intercept mission over Wissant with one other friendly flight on the map, but no enemy flights at all.

 

Again, combat report bereft of any acitivity.

 

Am I doing something wrong (config is all default apart from air starts, no. of missions credited and save AI from itself), or is this simply part of the programmed randomness of war?

 

Apologies if this should be in the Issues thread, but I'm not sure how much time Pat gets to go through that thread.

 

Also, I've ended up leading the Sqn. as a Fg Off with 10 Plt Offs and 3 Wt Offs!  Replacements for the horrendous and seemingly unavoidable losses suffered thus far are all Plt Offs or Wt Offs - never get a Sqn Ldr or even a Flt Lt.

Have you checked the mission files if there are enemy flights defined?

Currently there seems to be a general GB issue with some (german?) bomber types in respect of formation flying:

 

[jasta11ace]

I'm having the same problem in my Spitfire campaign with scramble missions. Zilch for Luftwaffe flights. On the other hand my 1 JG2 squadron has plenty of activity.

Edited December 13, 2022 by jasta11ace

[Russkly]

18 hours ago, kraut1 said:

Have you checked the mission files if there are enemy flights defined?

Currently there seems to be a general GB issue with some (german?) bomber types in respect of formation flying:

 

 

Hi kraut1,

 

If I understand the files correctly (see below and attached), there were three enemy flights defined, but none of them showed up on the map. I don't know what the "Player Contact" numbers below refer to.

 

I've attached the *.mission file, if anyone can interpret it (I can't!):

 

Player flights
  Mission type: INTERCEPT
  Airfield    : Ford
  Aircraft    : hurricanemkii
  Player Contact    : -1

 

IFlight
  Mission type: BOMB
  Airfield    : High Halden
  Aircraft    : a20b
  Player Contact    : 12

 

IFlight
  Mission type: OFFENSIVE
  Airfield    : Saint Omer
  Aircraft    : bf110e2
  Player Contact    : 29

 

IFlight
  Mission type: BOMB
  Airfield    : Crecy en Ponthieu
  Aircraft    : he111h6
  Player Contact    : 29

 

IFlight
  Mission type: GROUND_ATTACK
  Airfield    : Calais Coquelles
  Aircraft    : bf109f2
  Player Contact    : 27

Hurricane 1941-09-03.zip

[kraut1]

3 hours ago, Russkly said:

 

Hi kraut1,

 

If I understand the files correctly (see below and attached), there were three enemy flights defined, but none of them showed up on the map. I don't know what the "Player Contact" numbers below refer to.

 

I've attached the *.mission file, if anyone can interpret it (I can't!):

 

Player flights
  Mission type: INTERCEPT
  Airfield    : Ford
  Aircraft    : hurricanemkii
  Player Contact    : -1

 

IFlight
  Mission type: BOMB
  Airfield    : High Halden
  Aircraft    : a20b
  Player Contact    : 12

 

IFlight
  Mission type: OFFENSIVE
  Airfield    : Saint Omer
  Aircraft    : bf110e2
  Player Contact    : 29

 

IFlight
  Mission type: BOMB
  Airfield    : Crecy en Ponthieu
  Aircraft    : he111h6
  Player Contact    : 29

 

IFlight
  Mission type: GROUND_ATTACK
  Airfield    : Calais Coquelles
  Aircraft    : bf109f2
  Player Contact    : 27

Hurricane 1941-09-03.zip 203.83 kB · 1 download

Sorry, the mission is not recognized by GB. Do you have the Hurricane 1941-09-03.eng file for the .mission?

But in respect of the He111 bombers and the current bomer formation problem it could work:

2xSC1000 is a heavy bomb load, but with 0.3 fuel it could work and the waypoint speed of 310km/h is from my point of view okay.

Edited December 14, 2022 by kraut1

[Russkly]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:43 PM, kraut1 said:

Sorry, the mission is not recognized by GB. Do you have the Hurricane 1941-09-03.eng file for the .mission?

But in respect of the He111 bombers and the current bomer formation problem it could work:

2xSC1000 is a heavy bomb load, but with 0.3 fuel it could work and the waypoint speed of 310km/h is from my point of view okay.

It won't allow me to attach an *.eng file, kraut1, unless you can advise how to do it.

 

Just had another dud intercept mission - absolutely no activity anywhere on map.

 

It's getting to the point, where I'm going to have to delete the campaign, as too many missions just don't involve any contact.

 

I even increased air density to Med from the default Low.

[Stonehouse]

zip the eng file up and attach the zip. Use that method for any file extension the forum doesn't allow. 

[Russkly]

10 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

zip the eng file up and attach the zip. Use that method for any file extension the forum doesn't allow. 

 

Thanks.

 

Here goes...

Hurricane 1941-09-13.zip

[kraut1]

6 hours ago, Russkly said:

 

Thanks.

 

Here goes...

Hurricane 1941-09-13.zip 10.66 kB · 1 download

Sorry again,

your mission is not recognized by my GB installation.

But no problem, I will just to comment the missions from the infos that I have:

-the 2 files have different dates:

Hurricane 1941-09-13.eng

Hurricane 1941-09-03.mission

I renamed the *.eng, edited it with the mission builder and because I do not own the hurricane I selected the Spit VB but this was not recgognized by GB too.

-I created a similar PWCG test RAF September 41 campaign with Spit VB:

-in PWCG when the first mission was defined:

most  player flight waypoints with altitude 0! I defined alt 1500.

started the mission with AI control and observed:

no enmy contact.

 

I tested the He111 loadout of your mission in respect of the current GB AI formation flying bug:

With Vanders EMG with PWCG 7xHe111-H6 loadout 4/1001 and fuel 0.3 test mission mission with Air Start:

The formation flying was not perfect but it worked, after dropping the bombs the formation had to fly a 270° turn: there was for a short time some confusion but within 10 minutes all planes were back in formation:

With Vanders EMG with PWCG 7xHe111-H6 loadout 4/1001 and fuel 0.3 test mission mission with start from runway:

-start itself worked.

-but during climbing some of the AI bombers: AI made the for the current bug typical error to fly with to big angle of attack and extended their flaps. Because of that after the distance of the formation was too big the lead bomber flew a circle which means, that He111 missions with this loadout and number of planes do not work when starting from the runway.

 

So here my conclusion:

 

-There seems to be a problem in current PWCG with no enemy contact in intercept missions (RAF 1941), but I don't know what is the reason.

 

-The loadout of the He111-H6 bombers (2xSC1000 and 0.3fuel) is more or less suitable for Air Starts, but not for starts from the runway.

Reason for this is not PWCG mission design, it is the current GB formation flying bug.

According to my tests as Stop Gap solution I would suggest:

He111-H6: reduce bomb load to 4xSC250, fuel 0.3 is okay

Ju88: currently big issues with AI formation flying, use only small 3 plane flights with max speed 360km/h and 4xSC250, fuel 0.4 (corrected)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/81680-interesting-bug-with-bomber-escort-mission/?do=findComment&comment=1240118

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by kraut1
mistakes corrected

[Russkly]

23 hours ago, kraut1 said:

Sorry again,

your mission is not recognized by my GB installation.

But no problem, I will just to comment the missions from the infos that I have:

-the 2 files have different dates:

Hurricane 1941-09-13.eng

Hurricane 1941-09-03.mission

I renamed the *.eng, edited it with the mission builder and because I do not own the hurricane I selected the Spit VB but this was not recgognized by GB too.

-I created a similar PWCG test RAF September 41 campaign with Spit VB:

-in PWCG when the first mission was defined:

most  player flight waypoints with altitude 0! I defined alt 1500.

started the mission with AI control and observed:

no enmy contact.

 

I tested the He111 loadout of your mission in respect of the current GB AI formation flying bug:

With Vanders EMG with PWCG 7xHe111-H6 loadout 4/1001 and fuel 0.3 test mission mission with Air Start:

The formation flying was not perfect but it worked, after dropping the bombs the formation had to fly a 270° turn: there was for a short time some confusion but within 10 minutes all planes were back in formation:

With Vanders EMG with PWCG 7xHe111-H6 loadout 4/1001 and fuel 0.3 test mission mission with start from runway:

-start itself worked.

-but during climbing some of the AI bombers: AI made the for the current bug typical error to fly with to big angle of attack and extended their flaps. Because of that after the distance of the formation was too big the lead bomber flew a circle which means, that He111 missions with this loadout and number of planes do not work when starting from the runway.

 

So here my conclusion:

 

-There seems to be a problem in current PWCG with no enemy contact in intercept missions (RAF 1941), but I don't know what is the reason.

 

-The loadout of the He111-H6 bombers (2xSC1000 and 0.3fuel) is more or less suitable for Air Starts, but not for starts from the runway.

Reason for this is not PWCG mission design, it is the current GB formation flying bug.

According to my tests as Stop Gap solution I would suggest:

He111-H6: reduce bomb load to 4xSC250, fuel 0.3 is okay

Ju88: currently big issues with AI formation flying, use only small 3 plane flights with max speed 360km/h and 4xSC250, fuel 0.4 (corrected)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/81680-interesting-bug-with-bomber-escort-mission/?do=findComment&comment=1240118

 

 

 

Thanks, kraut1.

 

Not sure what I can do with this?

[kraut1]

25 minutes ago, Russkly said:

 

Thanks, kraut1.

 

Not sure what I can do with this?

-I had the same issue with no enemy contact like you. For this is Pat the expert.

-Or you try out a Mission / Mission with Role

-If you want try out further campaigns, you should currently define very small bomber flight sizes with configuration / advanced configuration / Aircraft Numbers, because their is a general GB bug with formation flying.

 

[Stonehouse]

Have you checked the campaign intel section to see if any Luftwaffe unit actually has airframes available? You might have to an emergency resupply for them. I've seen in happen in Bodenplatte campaigns especially if the game has a bug that causes more AI losses than Pat expected for the campaign. I think there is currently an issue where particularly AI bombers are stalling out...........pretty sure I have read posts on this recently. From memory if the unit name is in red it is out of supply at this time.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Stonehouse