Battle over Europe

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I really just have no interest in flying anymore Soviet or German planes. I also don't really like nor get all warm and fuzzy flying for the USSR or Nazi Germany but maybe that's just me.

Edited December 2, 2022 by drewm3i-VR

[Chief_Mouser]

My lack of enthusiasm for late-war Eastern front (or Western Front for that matter) is caused by the scattergun way in which our sims emerge. Now if someone had only started the whole IL-2 GB franchise with 1st September 1939, and worked through from there, I would have a reason for looking forward to 'better' planes as the sim progressed. Although, even with leaving out the Pacific theatre, it would still have needed the release of a huge number of modules to progress from 1939 to 1945. Much longer to do than the actual war. Nowadays, I don't expect to live to see it completed even if somebody does try it.

 

Point being, at the moment, I'd rather see some proper historical early war stuff, East or West. With bombers and the ability to have large formations. No interest at all in uber-plane  dogfight pissing contests.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Chief_Mouser
Edit: not paying attention to history!

[Gambit21]

20 minutes ago, Chief_Mouser said:

My lack of enthusiasm for late-war Eastern front (or Western Front for that matter) is caused by the scattergun way in which our sims emerge. Now if someone had only started the whole IL-2 GB franchise with 3rd September 1939, and worked through from there, I would have a reason for looking forward to 'better' planes as the sim progressed. Although, even with leaving out the Pacific theatre, it would still have needed the release of a huge number of modules to progress from 1939 to 1945. Much longer to do than the actual war. Nowadays, I don't expect to live to see it completed even if somebody does try it.

 

Point being, at the moment, I'd rather see some proper historical early war stuff, East or West. With bombers and the ability to have large formations. No interest at all in uber-plane  dogfight pissing contests.

Yep

 

Early war is best.

 

109E vs I16

109E vs Hurricane

MiG 3 vs 109

P-40 vs Oscar

P-38 vs Oscar

Zero vs Wildcat

Zero vs P400

Zero vs P-40

Etc

 

Late war can get bent - especially out east.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sobilak]

37 minutes ago, Chief_Mouser said:

 Now if someone had only started the whole IL-2 GB franchise with 3rd September 1939, and worked through from there, I would have a reason for looking forward

1st september 1939.

 

[SharkWolf2022]

1 hour ago, drewm3i-VR said:

I really just have no interest in flying anymore Soviet or German planes. I also don't really like and get all warm and fuzzy flying for the USSR or Nazi Germany but maybe that's just me.

Thats more understandable than being tired of eastern front in general when the western front has only one less DLC than eastern front. I personally dont mind flying for the USSR or Nazi Germany mostly because I like their planes more than the US aircraft. US aircraft are all pretty ugly IMO other than a few holdouts like the Bearcat (I love the Bearcat).  I also don't mind Japanese planes other than the Zero. Ki84s, Ki43s, B5Ns and G4M1s are all really nice and IMO the G4M1 is quite a sexy aircraft.  My main problem with the PTO is the US planes because, again, I don't like World War II US aircraft at all outside of one or two.

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, SharkWolf2022 said:

I t ally don't understand it. Soviet career is impossible to "finish" as it ends in 1943. 

The Soviet roster is also incomplete as it lacks any true late war planes like the Yak-3, La-7, TU2 and late model IL-2s or IL-10s. 

 

Why do most people on the forum seem to hate the idea of a new dlc being a late war Eastern Front module when he have zero so far? 

 

A lot of these people would prefer that there were no simulations modelling the war in Eastern Europe... they just aren't interested in it (and aren't willing to learn enough to get interested, I suppose?).

 

I mainly prefer pre-1943 myself, but most people are drawn to the late war (this might have something to do with the Americans taking a while to show up, but also is likely due to the fact that the fastest planes to actually see combat were late war planes).

 

That is my impression anyway.

 

That said, I would go for a He-162... so who am I to judge? I am also only now warming to the Pacific (due to reading less history about it)... so again, who am I to judge?

 

Anyway - I definitely think it is time for a 1944/1945 East Europe module. I'd recommend the Ju-188 over the Do-217K/M though... I gather the Do-217's were largely withdrawn by the end of 1944 and the Ju-188 has better cockpit visibility and a stronger defensive argument. Also, if a Do-217 gets modelled I'd prefer it to be a Do-217E-4, as they served from 1942 to 1944!

 

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Yes, it's called Microsoft Flight Simulator ?

 

Kind-of lacking in the flight model department though, isn't it?

 

I wouldn't mind a couple of trainers (Bristol Boxkite, SG-38) to go with the U-2VS... especially as those two would be fairly cheap to develop. But I basically agree with you.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Avimimus

[oc2209]

3 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

I really just have no interest in flying anymore Soviet or German planes. I also don't really like and get all warm and fuzzy flying for the USSR or Nazi Germany but maybe that's just me.

 

Yeah, flying an inanimate object that's recreated as a blob of pixels and mathematical formulae, translates directly into:

 

You could have just left it at 'I don't like Soviet/German planes,' but you instead passive-aggressively inserted a personal attack on anybody who flies Axis/VVS. Or, I'm sure, anybody who'll fly for Japan when the Pacific comes. 

 

From a purely gaming perspective, it's boring as f*** to fly only Allied, since all their planes are alike: all wing guns, all the time. And the US has a violent allergy to cannons.

 

Exceptions are the P-39, which is trash because of engine timers, and the P-38, which is a fine plane, but anything twin-engine is never going to be fully competitive with single engine fighters.

 

Only the most smugly self-righteous sim pilot would ignore a massive amount of global aeronautic engineering diversity available to us, solely to conform to their narrow view of which simulated planes are 'morally acceptable' to fly in a simulated world.

Edited December 1, 2022 by MisterSmith
Removed the overtly political stuff

[Ribbon]

No hate, just after 7years of repetitive gameplay only dlc i'll buy is PTO, medium and heavy bombers and torpedo bombers.

 

Ppl here reffer to knowlege of certain battle and theatre, you read a book, watch a documetary and then you boot up il2 in hope to experience said battle which looks great in your head while in (game)reality you end up over similar landscape with few flak bursts in the sky and with similar aircrafts you own from 5 previous expansions doing almost indentical missions you did in previous 5 expansions, missions with quite sterile scenery.

Only way to recognize said battle is by reading game title and career description.....good for you but i won't spend another 80-90$ for that.

Even with new updated engine, graphics and FM i won't buy if it doesn't offer new gameplay and diversity.

Devs these days think it's all about graphics and tech(FM) fidelity while gameplay and gameplay variety being forgotten.

If il2:1946 got VR support and a bit better/updated maps that would be a winner for me.

 

 

[DBFlyguy]

41 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

No hate, just after 7years of repetitive gameplay only dlc i'll buy is PTO, medium and heavy bombers and torpedo bombers.

 

Ppl here reffer to knowlege of certain battle and theatre, you read a book, watch a documetary and then you boot up il2 in hope to experience said battle which looks great in your head while in (game)reality you end up over similar landscape with few flak bursts in the sky and with similar aircrafts you own from 5 previous expansions doing almost indentical missions you did in previous 5 expansions, missions with quite sterile scenery.

Only way to recognize said battle is by reading game title and career description.....good for you but i won't spend another 80-90$ for that.

Even with new updated engine, graphics and FM i won't buy if it doesn't offer new gameplay and diversity.

Devs these days think it's all about graphics and tech(FM) fidelity while gameplay and gameplay variety being forgotten.

If il2:1946 got VR support and a bit better/updated maps that would be a winner for me.

 

 

 

☝️☝️☝️

This.

[Leftenant_Soap]

I like planes

[oc2209]

4 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

No hate, just after 7years of repetitive gameplay only dlc i'll buy is PTO, medium and heavy bombers and torpedo bombers.

 

Ppl here reffer to knowlege of certain battle and theatre, you read a book, watch a documetary and then you boot up il2 in hope to experience said battle which looks great in your head while in (game)reality you end up over similar landscape with few flak bursts in the sky and with similar aircrafts you own from 5 previous expansions doing almost indentical missions you did in previous 5 expansions, missions with quite sterile scenery.

 

Not accusing you of it, but there's plenty of hate involved. It's easy to detect from certain quarters. 

 

Every game gets repetitive. It's unavoidable. There's also plenty of plane repetition, which is increasingly unavoidable as the BoX series ages.

 

Yet the same anti-Eastern Front whiners didn't complain that Normandy had repetitive planes. Suddenly it's only a deal-breaker when it comes to the Eastern Front.

 

The fact is, the pro-American crowd thinks Russian planes are garbage, and they don't appreciate German planes. So they just want to skip over the last 2 years of the eastern war as if it didn't happen. That's a pretty hateful attitude, if you ask me. It's certainly giving a big 'eff you' to their fellow players who fly that theater of the war.

 

I can see why, for 'geopolitical/economic reasons' it might not be prudent to revisit the Eastern Front; but I can do without the sanctimonious preaching about which plane an aviation enthusiast is allowed to enjoy flying.

 

I found this excerpt funny, in light of trying to mix morality with engineering:

 

"Air & Space: The number of different aircraft that you’ve flown is simply astonishing. In your book you write “The speed with which I had to switch from one type of machine to another…forced me to invent a special system of memorizing the layouts of various cockpits, engine settings, and other vital data.” Can you tell us a little about the system you used?

 

Brown: It rather evolved from the fact that I flew a large number of German aircraft at the end of the war, because they had a standardized system. All the instruments in the cockpit had color codes around the perimeter of the gauge—for example, red for emergency, brown for oil, blue for oxygen. Once you had this standardized system, it made life very simple for you to identify any instrument. So, bearing this in mind, I tended to daub with pencil around the gauges of non-German aircraft these same color codes.  And this helped enormously.

Now, another thing the [Germans] had was for setting rpm, revolutions per minute. You didn’t have to bother about watching an rpm gauge like we do. The gauges had the same configuration as a clock, and provided you set the hands of the clock to 12 o’clock, they had been preset for the particular engine you were dealing with. You didn’t have to remember 2,400 rpm for this engine, 3,200 rpm for that other engine.  It was simply: Go to 12 o’clock. So that helped enormously also."

 

So, Eric Brown liked German instrumentation, evidently. A guy who flew hundreds of planes of various nationalities, and still had this preference.

 

But for Axis/VVS flyers here, it can't be as simple as liking a plane for its ease of use, or for its armament, or its handling--no, instead, petty, cheap, scurrilous accusations must be made. High horses must be sat upon.

 

Do we want to talk about planes? Then talk about planes. But all I'm seeing is brainless politicizing of pieces of metal.

[Gambit21]

45 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

Not accusing you of it, but there's plenty of hate involved. It's easy to detect from certain quarters. 

 

Every game gets repetitive. It's unavoidable. There's also plenty of plane repetition, which is increasingly unavoidable as the BoX series ages.

 

 

Umm...it's so avoidable.

 

 

[357th_KW]

“How dare anyone not love the things I love!”

 

I’m currently reading through Daniel and Gabor Horvath’s book “Verified Victories”, which is all about the battles in Hungary in late 1944/45.  Guess what the most common aircraft are that are showing up in Soviet loss records?  Yak-1b, Yak-9, Yak-9T, La-5F, La-5FN, IL-2.  Guess what JG52 was almost exclusively equipped with at the end of 1944?  Bf109 G6s and G14s.  We already have most of the critical 1944/45 eastern front planes.  A map of Poland or Hungary would be cool and all, but it’s going to look a whole lot like the maps we already have.  Is it really that hard to understand why lots of people aren’t that excited about late eastern front when there are entire theaters and major air forces that haven’t yet appeared in BoX?

[Aleksander55]

I'm new here so I didn't know there was hate involved, this thread is the first time I've read something about it. I have no idea of the history of development troubles or fan preferences of this particular game as I had been dormant in my flight-sim mania for pretty much 20 years, but it's easy to see that even a single plane is exponentialy more complex than it was back then, that's why I guessed different fronts take so long and are so carefully selected by the devs.

 

I particularly played the hell of EF2000, F22 TAW and European Air War by the end of the 90s, then after the turn of the century I got burned out of flight sims, exactly at the time when the market was over saturated with them (EAW, Jane's WW2, Microsoft CFS, etc). So burned out that even though I bought and installed the 1st IL-2 because I was *very* curious about the eastern front I only dabled in the quick missions from time to time. It's been on and out of my HDs for multiple system upgrades but I've never really played it, I would install it and leave it there.

 

So, while I also want to dive into the western front with modern technology I guess there's still a part of my mind that is still sated by how much I played it in EAW and right now I'd really rather get the LA-7, Yak-3, Yak-9U and P-63.

 

Honestly even if there's some political friction because of the recent war I didn't see any hate when people asked for the Pacific Theater. I see youtubers who talk about WW2 fighters still talking about soviet fighters, so I'm surprised if there's some kind of friction around here.

 

edit: I used 'hitlerinium' when complaining about the resistance of german planes, it's only because I see people use 'stalinium' all the time. I thought I was being funny... ?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Aleksander55

[Luftschiff]

This forum always goes for "The people that don't feel like me are doing so because of hate, extreme prejudice and because they're super dumb" it seems.

I've seen no hate anywhere on the topic honestly, nor in this thread - just fatigue.

 

There are many parts to it, yes, and some people lean more heavily on one of these points but I do think it all adds up to fatigue.

Many people (not all, obviously) are tired of the eastern front, of the late war super-planes, of flat and lackluster scenery, of the same axis lineup.

They might furthermore not care for the history or scenery of the eastern front as much as they do for other areas. 

 

In general it's just...we've done it.

We've been on the eastern front since the game was launched and another DLC in the east promises to add very little variety compared to what we've already had. Personally I am also very tired of late war in general, of the steppe, and I'm not interested in late-stage soviet fighters. There really is no hate, but I want something different than you do and I would personally not buy another late east war pack.

[Irishratticus72]

The face you make when people don't like the same things you do....... ?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

For me, it's not hate towards the eastern front, it's just that I find it less attractive than some of the alternatives. The Bf190 G10 and Fw190 A9 are "just another one" of their respective series to me and don't excite me in the slightest. The Ta-152 is even more "late-war Wunderwaffe" than the bubbletop Spit and of little interest to historical scenarios. Same thing for the He-162, but at least it'd make for different gameplay. The Me-163 would interest me at least a bit, but we don't have its main target and given what the Devs have said, we're unlikely to see any heavy bombers.

 

The Soviet aircraft don't really excite me a lot either. I've never really liked the Yak, so yet another version doesn't interest me. Neither would another IL-2. The La-7 used to be one of my favourite aircraft in 1946, so I guess I'd like at least that one.

 

A lot of the same arguments can be made for late-war western front, but given that we've got the maps for a pretty continuous front line from 1940 to the end of the war (barring a week or two in early September 1944 and the very end in April/May 1945), I think it's safe to say we won't get any more full late-war western front modules (perhaps a couple of collector planes).

 

The landscapes wouldn't bring something wildly different either. Although I guess there are some interesting places left (Carpathians, Kurland, Gulf of Finland, perhaps Balaton), many locations will have a large similarity to some of the existing maps in both landscape and architecture. Up till now, all modules brought a wildly different map: Stalingrad has steppes, Moscow large forests, Kuban sea and mountains, Rheinland flat farmland with western architecture, Normandy cliffs and a big stretch of sea to fly over.

 

Also, two of the Eastern Front battles I'd like to see most are already ruled out by the Devs because of their large urban areas (Berlin, Leningrad).

 

Lastly, but not most importantly, there's the matter of current events that we're not allowed to discuss.

 

1 hour ago, Luftschiff said:

This forum always goes for "The people that don't feel like me are doing so because of hate, extreme prejudice and because they're super dumb" it seems.

I've seen no hate anywhere on the topic honestly, nor in this thread - just fatigue.

Absolutely. Like you, I can't think of any hate I've seen towards the topic. I *have*, however, seen a lot of hate towards people who don't agree with one's opinion. Why does it matter whether I like or don't like Soviet planes, or whether I like or don't like the current business model with related maps and planes, or whatever? Even though I'm not a big fan of Soviet aviation myself, I can understand why people would like it and I don't have anything against people who do. Neither do I think it says anything about their intelligence or personality. Why is it so hard to simply accept that we don't all have the same preferences and instead have to resort to calling people who disagree with us "annoying purists" or worse (though anything worse usually gets censored out pretty quickly)?

[Wardog5711]

[MilonRouge]

17 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Fun spoiler: I'd like to see a module with only peace in mind and no warplanes. MS flight-sim done IL-2 style would be a hit.

 

I really would love if 1C decided to start releasing planes for MSFS, as i'd love to fly some of these planes all over the world and sightsee.  I think it would also be a good way to get people into IL-2 Sturmovik ~ have the MSFS versions of the planes without any weaponry, so that people would come over here for that experience.  Seems like a win-win to me ^_^

In regards to the main post, i don't get why people get all whiny about more Eastern Front.  For those of us in the US, all the WWII stuff is overwhelmingly focused on the Western Front, so having one game that focuses a little more on the Eastern Front doesn't seem too much of an ask.  I personally don't care one bit about American or British planes, but you don't see me getting upsetti spaghetti over the Western Front expansions coming to the game?‍♀️

 

Aside from Battle of ______ expansions, i think it would be cool to have an oddball aircraft pack ~ just a bunch of the funky/concept/prototypes that were made.  It would also have the advantage of not being tied to any specific theatre, so you could have planes from all nations, not probs.  It's a bit out there, but it would be unique and add another dimension to the game))

[BlitzPig_EL]

I've been flying WW1 quite a bit more lately, it's a great change of pace from the same old thing we have been flying since 2001.  You might want to try it.

 

That said, there is an entire theater of the Second World War that lies untouched by this franchise.  One that saw the participation of most of the major combatants, and that had very interesting air operations starting as far back as 1937.  It had a lot of unique and interesting aircraft that flew over a a vast area of differing land and seascapes, and that saw the final air battles of the war.

 

The Pacific.  

 

Ignoring this theater is folly.

[DD_Arthur]

13 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

☝️☝️☝️

This.

+1

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

54 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I've been flying WW1 quite a bit more lately, it's a great change of pace from the same old thing we have been flying since 2001.  You might want to try it.

 

That said, there is an entire theater of the Second World War that lies untouched by this franchise.  One that saw the participation of most of the major combatants, and that had very interesting air operations starting as far back as 1937.  It had a lot of unique and interesting aircraft that flew over a a vast area of differing land and seascapes, and that saw the final air battles of the war.

 

The Pacific.  

 

Ignoring this theater is folly.

100 percent agree

[Trooper117]

There is no hate... I only see the bitterness and narrow minded attitude coming from some quarters that people must 'hate', just because they have a different view of what they want to see in the game.

We aren't sheep, we don't follow the Eastern Front narrative blindly, simply because there are other theatres and different avenues the dev's can take now.

I don't care what avenue we are taken down, if it interests me I'll consider buying it, if it doesn't I won't... it really is that simple.

[RyanR]

I'm pretty indifferent. I'd actually love to see a later Eastern Front scenario. This sim does a pretty good job at telling the whole story. 

 

Italy would also be really interesting.

 

Not sure I want to see the PTO yet.

 

-Ryan

[jojy47jojyrocks]

For me it all depends. I really don't mind eastern front at all. The game name brand is IL2 Sturmovik after all. But, it has many different variety planes as content to give us, then It would be great. Mediterranean front or even the Pacific front, is also great - Fresh theatre plus more new planes. Late war Eastern front - Fresh new faster and better planes. Overall, more content the better.

 

Late war Eastern front maybe can come later and give the IL2 Sturmovik brand a finish to the eastern theatre story after some fresh move to other fresh fronts or great battles.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by jojy47jojyrocks

[[CPT]Crunch]

16 hours ago, oc2209 said:

And the US has a violent allergy to cannons.

Nope, not really true, the truth is nobody could develop and produce guns of this class with ammunition in the quantity the USA could and did once the war kicked off.  Or they would have done the same, some even died trying.

[DD_Arthur]

7 hours ago, Luftschiff said:

This forum always goes for "The people that don't feel like me are doing so because of hate, extreme prejudice and because they're super dumb" it seems.

I've seen no hate anywhere on the topic honestly, nor in this thread - just fatigue.

 

There are many parts to it, yes, and some people lean more heavily on one of these points but I do think it all adds up to fatigue.

Many people (not all, obviously) are tired of the eastern front, of the late war super-planes, of flat and lackluster scenery, of the same axis lineup.

They might furthermore not care for the history or scenery of the eastern front as much as they do for other areas. 

 

In general it's just...we've done it.

We've been on the eastern front since the game was launched and another DLC in the east promises to add very little variety compared to what we've already had. Personally I am also very tired of late war in general, of the steppe, and I'm not interested in late-stage soviet fighters. There really is no hate, but I want something different than you do and I would personally not buy another late east war pack.

Sums it up perfectly. No hate whatsoever.

Just can’t face more of the same….

[CAFulcrum]

I think people are passionate on the topic out of fear that another eastern DLC will stagnate the product overall and sales will be low.  WWII has a sort of pantheon of combat aircraft everyone wants to fly, and I think when it comes down to it there is a lot more interest in those aircraft that aren't in the sim than upgrades to the ones that are.  Yes it would be nice to get more German variants and some of the later iterations of soviet ac like the P63, P40N, Yak3, il10 etc., but outside of that you have a relatively unknown air battle and more depressing looking eastern front terrain.  It would be great to get at some point but with the sim being this old I think a lot of people just have general anxiety over keeping it alive and getting as much out of it while it's still viable.

[Missionbug]

The eastern front is from where this whole series originated so I never got what folks dislike about it, prior to that who would have made the Yak, Lagg and IL-2 types we have now so it makes sense to actually continue featuring the war in that part of the world as there is so much left still to add as far as aircraft and participants go, so many battles and stories yet untold in this higher resolution version.

 

That said I agree with those who have other areas of interest as to me all are relevant it just comes down to what can actually be done that will make people happy that their particular theater is done well enough, you are always damned if you do, damned if not it seems as a development team.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

 

[oc2209]

14 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Umm...it's so avoidable.

 

No, it's really not.

 

The Mediterranean that supposedly everyone wanted so much: that would've had Allied redundancy. Spitfire V with dust filters, another version of a P-40, P-38, etc. There might've been 2 new Allied planes, tops.

 

Going back in time to Channel '43 would again have massive redundancy.

 

The Pacific will have severe redundancy on the American army air force side.

 

The only thing people pre-nag about is getting another late war German and Soviet anything. Despite the huge, glaring hole in the Russian lineup that no other major air power has. Imagine Britain being cut off at 1943 tech levels. Imagine America being cut off in '43.

 

Can't, can you? Neither can I. The only reason it's deemed acceptable by the Eastern Front haters, is that they view Russian planes as inferior and not worth including in the sim, whenever possible.

 

That's not my opinion; that's fact. Open disdain both for that plane set, and for the people who want to fly it. People who've waited patiently while 2 other modules have been made on the Western Front, and after all that time, they're told their wants are boring and stupid and wrong.

 

6 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

There is no hate... I only see the bitterness and narrow minded attitude coming from some quarters that people must 'hate', just because they have a different view of what they want to see in the game.

We aren't sheep, we don't follow the Eastern Front narrative blindly, simply because there are other theatres and different avenues the dev's can take now.

I don't care what avenue we are taken down, if it interests me I'll consider buying it, if it doesn't I won't... it really is that simple.

 

Funny that your saintly, totally benign 'different view' results in lopping off the last 2 years of the war for Russia.

 

When the sim moves on to the Pacific, does anybody really think they'll come back and revisit Europe? We know all the major impediments preventing them from doing Italy, Berlin, etc. Barring an early war operation--which the devs haven't shown much/any inclination in doing--there's very few options left for anywhere in Europe.

 

Back when Jason was still in charge, we were told repeatedly that the Pacific was a non-starter. Now, all of a sudden, it's somehow possible.

 

So, the logical, fair, thing to do is wrap up the gigantic hole in the Eastern Front, and then move on to the Pacific for good. Instead of never getting the Pacific as we once thought, we'd be getting it in 4 years. Still a win, yeah?

 

But no. No, the 'fierce urgency of now' demands that we get it ASAP, even at the expense of the Eastern Front being properly closed out!

 

Yup. Totally fair, reasonable, and accommodating to players with different tastes than yours.

Edited December 2, 2022 by oc2209

[Chief_Mouser]

22 hours ago, Sobilak said:

1st september 1939.

 

 

Oops. My birthday is the 2nd and I erred in the wrong direction. ?. Also, probably, too British! ?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Chief_Mouser

[Gambit21]

18 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

The Pacific will have severe redundancy on the American army air force side.

 

 

So because of a few Allied aircraft already present, that means...

 

The Wildcat, Dauntless, Avenger, other P-40's, 2 versions of the Hellcat, several versions of the Corsair, the PBY, the A-20G, Beaufighter, A6m2-21, A6m2-N, A6m-5, A6M-3, KI-43 Oscar (several versions), not to mention the profound difference in scenery/maps and at some point carrier operations...all this is irrelevant in your context, the PTO is therefore "repetitive"??

With utmost respect...sorry man nobody here is buying this.

[Jade_Monkey]

24 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

So because of a few Allied aircraft already present, that means...

 

The Wildcat, Dauntless, Avenger, other P-40's, 2 versions of the Hellcat, several versions of the Corsair, the PBY, the A-20G, Beaufighter, A6m2-21, A6m2-N, A6m-5, A6M-3, KI-43 Oscar (several versions), not to mention the profound difference in scenery/maps and at some point carrier operations...all this is irrelevant in your context, the PTO is therefore "repetitive"??

With utmost respect...sorry man nobody here is buying this.

 

That comment you quoted took away any credibility from the rest of their post. ♻️

[SharkWolf2022]

39 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

No, it's really not.

 

The Mediterranean that supposedly everyone wanted so much: that would've had Allied redundancy. Spitfire V with dust filters, another version of a P-40, P-38, etc. There might've been 2 new Allied planes, tops.

 

Going back in time to Channel '43 would again have massive redundancy.

 

Whilst I really want a Late War East Front campaign I also acknowledge that there are a ton of planes used by the United States and United Kingdom that I would love to see in Il-2. Top of the list being a Bomber variant of the Mosquito. US planes I care less about but it is what it is and I know other people like US planes. 

44 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

The Pacific will have severe redundancy on the American army air force side.

Not really depending on timeframe and battle. There's a whole host of US Naval Fighters and Bombers that 1C could add such as the Corsair, Wildcat and Hellcat, Dauntless, Helldiver, Avenger, Buffalo. Again I dont really care about us planes but I would probably like the Dauntless and Avenger at least.

47 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

48 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

The only thing people pre-nag about is getting another late war German and Soviet anything. Despite the huge, glaring hole in the Russian lineup that no other major air power has. Imagine Britain being cut off at 1943 tech levels. Imagine America being cut off in '43.

 

When the sim moves on to the Pacific, does anybody really think they'll come back and revisit Europe? We know all the major impediments preventing them from doing Italy, Berlin, etc. Barring an early war operation--which the devs haven't shown much/any inclination in doing--there's very few options left for anywhere in Europe.

 

So, the logical, fair, thing to do is wrap up the gigantic hole in the Eastern Front, and then move on to the Pacific for good. Instead of never getting the Pacific as we once thought, we'd be getting it in 4 years. Still a win, yeah?

 

This is honestly the main concern I have. I couldn't care less if we get nothing but Western Front and Pacific for the next 5 expansions as long as 1C EVENTUALLY got back around to finish the glaring hole in the Eastern Front- but they won't. Once they realize how much money they can make off of other theatres the Eastern Front will be throw away into the nearest garbage bin and the VVS will be stuck with 1943 aircraft whilst all the other major nations have 1944/1945 era aircraft to mop the floor with them. 

 

I want more Western Front (UK) aircraft. I want Twin Engine bombers. I want Japanese planes and the Pacific Theatre. But I don't want the Eastern Front to be abandoned in some side of the road ditch with VVS never getting their more modern aircraft.

[oc2209]

13 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

So because of a few Allied aircraft already present, that means...

 

 

P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51, Spitfire and Hurricane will all be redundant when/if they're put in the Pacific. Period.

 

You said it was easy to avoid redundancy. I'm saying it's not. Of course there'll be other new planes in the Pacific, yeah... no s***, Sherlock. An entirely new theater.

 

But there will still be some unavoidable redundancy, even in a new theater. That was my point, and it is inarguable.

Redundancy only bothers people when it's of a plane they don't want to fly. Let's not act like redundancy in and of itself is the problem.

 

5 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Nope, not really true, the truth is nobody could develop and produce guns of this class with ammunition in the quantity the USA could and did once the war kicked off.  Or they would have done the same, some even died trying.

 

What an utterly pointless correction.

 

We could field an A-bomb and build a 4-engine bomber in an hour, but chose not develop 20-30mm cannons on par with other nations. Excuses are meaningless, the end result is all that matters.

 

If the end result is that very few American planes use cannons, then my original statement doesn't warrant correction.

[DD_Arthur]

42 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

“….help! I’m teetering on the verge of hysteria….”

Steady. It’s merely a game, no one here has any input into development decisions and no one here is hating anything.

Have a nice cup of tea and a cheese sandwich.

 

[LukeFF]

Pssst, someone mention to oc the giant supply chain the US had in place for the M2 Browning at the start of the war. 

[oc2209]

5 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

That comment you quoted took away any credibility from the rest of their post. ♻️

 

Did it?

 

Maybe you should try reading what I said.

 

I specified redundancy on the army air force side. Which there will be. Also, since you're so astute, why don't you answer this portion from the 'rest of my post':

 

57 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

Despite the huge, glaring hole in the Russian lineup that no other major air power has. Imagine Britain being cut off at 1943 tech levels. Imagine America being cut off in '43.

 

Can't, can you? Neither can I.

 

Answer that. Anybody, answer that.

 

You can't, or you won't. Which means you're all being entirely disingenuous. You would not accept the same situation that you are telling other people to accept. That is your logical fallacy. That is what takes away your credibility.

[migmadmarine]

Speaking for myself, I'd love to see a late war east front module, but either not yet or in a scenario where the dev team is grown enough to do two modules in parallel. I'd been hoping that the next module would be Sicily since it would extend the western allied careers nicely, possibly add some more aircraft that could carry through to Normandy, also be done with an exclusively Italian axis lineup to give the "I'm sick of German fighters" group a break, and on top of that there is just a nice symmetry to 3 east front modules and 3 west front ones.  And god knows people have been wanting the pacific for ages, so I can see why people would be disappointed by a new east front module before getting anything against Japan. 

[SharkWolf2022]

1 minute ago, migmadmarine said:

Speaking for myself, I'd love to see a late war east front module, but either not yet or in a scenario where the dev team is grown enough to do two modules in parallel. I'd been hoping that the next module would be Sicily since it would extend the western allied careers nicely, possibly add some more aircraft that could carry through to Normandy, also be done with an exclusively Italian axis lineup to give the "I'm sick of German fighters" group a break, and on top of that there is just a nice symmetry to 3 east front modules and 3 west front ones.  And god knows people have been wanting the pacific for ages, so I can see why people would be disappointed by a new east front module before getting anything against Japan. 

I would like a land based pacific battle. I like the Ki43/ Ki84 series a lot more than the Zeroes so I would love to see them. Ki-61 also was produced in several variants throughout the war and would be interesting to see. That said, I also want the Kate and Val which fit in better with Zeroes ?