Does anyone know the actual size of the VKB NXT EVO?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Looking for total height and dimensions of the base.

Their website is very uninformative, at best.

[LukeFF]

This should help: https://www.reddit.com/r/VKB/comments/tw4xq6/gladiator_nxt_evo_omnitthrottle_dimensions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[BlitzPig_EL]

Thanks Luke!  Now I have some numbers to work with.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

It's pretty small. Very similar profile to the T16000M that it replaced.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Yeah, I did some comparisons to my CH stick, the base is a bit smaller, and it's about the same height.

I may have to break down and order one.  Shipping is steep, but that's how it is.

[1Sascha]

It's a bit hard to take some of these dimensions with just measuring tape, but I just checked my KG-12 Evo and the figures quoted in that technical drawing of the older stick seem about right. The baseplate is shaped slightly differently on the Evo, but its overall dimensions and the hole pattern seem identical to me.

 

 

12 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Shipping is steep, but that's how it is.

 

Well, at least the base-price of the sticks is a bit lower in the US. Considering that shipping within the EU (unless you happen to live in the Netherlands) is also about 10 to 11 Euros, I'd say total cost to us consumers is roughly the same in the US and EU.

 

All that said: Those sticks are totally worth it, IMO. If you plan on using yours with other sims besides IL-2 (say, DCS) - and if your budget allows it - you might want to also consider the SCG, preferably the "Premium" version. As much as I love my KG-12's look and feel, I wouldn't want to use it in a DCS jet for example - just not enough buttons on there.

 

 

 

 

S.

Edited December 11, 2022 by 1Sascha

[BlitzPig_EL]

I plan on getting the "Space" grip.

More buttons is always a good thing.

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Just one more question, I promise...

 

Here in the US I have a choice of shippers, DHL or FedEx.  FedEx is less expensive.  Any real difference other than price?

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Just one more question, I promise...

 

Here in the US I have a choice of shippers, DHL or FedEx.  FedEx is less expensive.  Any real difference other than price?

 

In my experience, no. I've used both shippers with VKB orders and have had no issues.

 

3 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

All that said: Those sticks are totally worth it, IMO. If you plan on using yours with other sims besides IL-2 (say, DCS) - and if your budget allows it - you might want to also consider the SCG, preferably the "Premium" version. As much as I love my KG-12's look and feel, I wouldn't want to use it in a DCS jet for example - just not enough buttons on there.

 

Yes, I'm finding the KG12 is great with WWII planes that don't need a lot of button commands (like the P-51) but it starts to become an issue when you have something that has both MGs and cannon and bombs and/or rockets. At that point, you then have to use the pinky lever on the front or the one on the side of the grip. It's why I didn't sell my MCG Ultimate grip - besides being fantastically built, it of course has a ton of buttons. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by LukeFF

[1Sascha]

23 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

It's why I didn't sell my MCG Ultimate grip

Yeah... I'm using the MCG Pro and that thing has more than enough functions on it for anything I can throw at it.

 

Still... I do glance at my Gladiator Evo from time to time longingly and wish they'd make a KG-12 "Ultimate" version with added functions but retaining those excellent ergos and iconic look. There's just something about having the same sort of grip in front of you physically that you have sitting in front of you in your virtual cockpit.

 

Maybe add another hat-switch, make both hats clickable, add another pinky-button and perhaps a side-button up top for the index-finger - and perhaps make it an all metal grip too (just like the MCG U). I'd buy that thing in a heartbeat.

 

If it was me, I'd probably look at all LW fighter-sticks/grips and steal as many elements from them as possible - there were quite a few variants in use that had more than the usual two or three buttons. Like this version used in the HS 129, which had a mode-selector switch on the left side to toggle between different weapon groupings:

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

when you have something that has both MGs and cannon and bombs and/or rockets

 

MGs and cannon isn't an issue IMO - after all: That very same stick design was used on RL-planes that did have MGs and cannon. The problems start for me, as you pointed out, once we throw bombs and/or rockets into the mix.

 

 

S.

Edited December 11, 2022 by 1Sascha

[LukeFF]

An Hs 129-style grip cast in metal would be great. ?? 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

For any body wondering, with the stiffer spring on the pitch axis and the lightest on on the roll axis, I've found that NO sensitivity curve is needed even on the Spitfire with the KG-12 grip...that's how good/precise the Gladiator NXT EVO is.

[1Sascha]

On 12/11/2022 at 4:39 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

DHL or FedEx.  FedEx is less expensive.  Any real difference other than price?

 

Any answers on here would be highly anecdotal I fear. I bet there are all sorts of people here who never had trouble with either carrier and also lots of people who did have trouble with at least one of them. Generally speaking however: DHL seems to be a solid choice from all I've heard/read from folks in the US. Only real experience with FedEx that I can share is from a Dutch buddy whose WingWing shipment was stuck at Shipol airport for days and days and FedEx not being able/willing to update him on the shipment's status. Caveat: This was sometime early this year when lockdowns and all sorts of COVID-related measures were more common. Plus it was just one dude in the Netherlands, so ... ?

 

 

8 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

with the stiffer spring on the pitch axis and the lightest on on the roll axis, I've found that NO sensitivity curve is needed even on the Spitfire with the KG-12 grip...that's how good/precise the Gladiator NXT EVO is.

It is incredibly precise, yes. Haven't tried IL-2's Spits yet, but I will say that the fact that there is a real gimbal with individually adjustable axes in there seems to help tremendously with any plane in any sim. Plus the dampening/clutches which make this stick very smooth and ... err... predictable, for lack of a better word. I've since moved on to a Gunfighter MCG Pro, but I had my KG-12 Evo set with 30 springs on Y and 20 on X and clutches set accordingly. You will have to either mount or velcro the stick to your desk like that, but it felt incredibly intuitive and precise that way.

 

I recommended the Evo to all sorts of people and three of them (that I know of) actually bought one and they were all blown away by the uplift they got over their Logitechs and TM 16Ks. Can't recommend this stick enough.

 

 

S.

Edited December 13, 2022 by 1Sascha

[BlitzPig_EL]

I received shipping confirmation this morning from FedEx.

 

[Sokol1]

Quote

...both MGs and cannon and bombs and/or rockets

On KG-12A grip:

 

Trigger = MG's

Top button = Cannons

Trigger + top button = all weapons

Pinky + trigger = Rockets

Pinky + top button = bombs - Bonus: no risk of accidentally drop bombs, since Pinky act as as "security". 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

On KG-12A grip:

 

Trigger = MG's

Top button = Cannons

Trigger + top button = all weapons

Pinky + trigger = Rockets

Pinky + top button = bombs - Bonus: no risk of accidentally drop bombs, since Pinky act as as "security". 

 

Yes, of course, but I've been too lazy so far to remap that button to a shift function. ? 

[BlitzPig_EL]

So, I have it and been using it for two days now.  

 

Only question I have is what is the rating of the installed springs?  There is no documentation anywhere to be found on this.  I want to lower the spring rate on the roll axis, but the real world vintage race car mechanic in me want's to know the baseline I'm starting from.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

So, I have it and been using it for two days now.  

 

Only question I have is what is the rating of the installed springs?  There is no documentation anywhere to be found on this.  I want to lower the spring rate on the roll axis, but the real world vintage race car mechanic in me want's to know the baseline I'm starting from.

 

From what I found in the VKB Discord channel, they should be #20 springs. If you look inside the box, you should have 2 fewer springs of that rating than the other types.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Ah... I dropped down to the 10lb. springs on the roll axis.  Much more to my liking.

Thanks.  

 

Didn't even think to look at the number of springs in the bags.

[1Sascha]

9 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Ah... I dropped down to the 10lb. springs on the roll axis.  Much more to my liking.

Thanks.  

 

Didn't even think to look at the number of springs in the bags.

Don't forget to adjust your clutches.

 

In my experience you want springs and clutches/dampeners to "work together", not one fight the other. What I did was leave the baseplate off while I was adjusting the clutches so that I could keep making changes while checking the stick's behavior in VKB Config's test-tab. You should adjust these things in tiny steps, like a quarter turn of the screw(s) at a time or even less than that.

 

What you want to avoid is the clutches/dampeners overpowering the springs, which would lead to the grip not returning to dead center every time you let go of the grip and/or the grip only returning "reluctantly" if you really overdo the dampening (easy to verify on the "axes"-tab).

You also want to avoid setting the clutches too light, which would lead to wobble when you let the grip snap back to center on its own.

 

Just to illustrate, here's how I had/have my Evo KG-12 set and how the Gunfighter looks when it's over-sprung and wobbly. It's a different stick/grip combo and when I shot the video, I had just removed the rotted out, factory-applied dampening grease from the GF's clutches and had disengaged them almost completely, so there's very little dampening going on there on the Gunfighter. Effect on the Evo with over-sprung/under-dampened axes would be less pronounced, but still comparable.

 

The Evo in the clip uses a 30-spring on Y and a 20-spring on X and both clutches are set to match those spring-strengths. Ignore the noise the Evo seems to be making - that's just the velcro holding it to the desk.. ?

 

 

 

 

It might take a bit of tinkering until you get everything just right, but after that you really don't need to touch the stick's insides ever again.

 

S.

Edited December 19, 2022 by 1Sascha

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Don't forget to adjust your clutches.

 

In my experience you want springs and clutches/dampeners to "work together", not one fight the other. What I did was leave the baseplate off while I was adjusting the clutches so that I could keep making changes while checking the stick's behavior in VKB Config's test-tab. You should adjust these things in tiny steps, like a quarter turn of the screw(s) at a time or even less than that.

 

What you want to avoid is the clutches/dampeners overpowering the springs, which would lead to the grip not returning to dead center every time you let go of the grip and/or the grip only returning "reluctantly" if you really overdo the dampening (easy to verify on the "axes"-tab).

You also want to avoid setting the clutches too light, which would lead to wobble when you let the grip snap back to center on its own.

 

Just to illustrate, here's how I had/have my Evo KG-12 set and how the Gunfighter looks when it's over-sprung and wobbly. It's a different stick/grip combo and when I shot the video, I had just removed the rotted out, factory-applied dampening grease from the GF's clutches and had disengaged them almost completely, so there's very little dampening going on there on the Gunfighter. Effect on the Evo with over-sprung/under-dampened axes would be less pronounced, but still comparable.

 

The Evo in the clip uses a 30-spring on Y and a 20-spring on X and both clutches are set to match those spring-strengths. Ignore the noise the Evo seems to be making - that's just the velcro holding it to the desk.. ?

 

 

 

 

It might take a bit of tinkering until you get everything just right, but after that you really don't need to touch the stick's insides ever again.

 

S.

 

The only problem I ran into when I tightened the clutches in an effort to reduce wobble is that it would tend to make the clutches "stick" a bit when I'd not moved the stick in a while. So, for right now at least my stick has some wobble but almost no stickiness when moving it. Perhaps I need to re-adjust them some more?

[1Sascha]

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Perhaps I need to re-adjust them some more?

I found that a *little* "stickiness" or the stick stopping like 100 positions from center when you let it snap back isn't that big of a deal. If it does the latter, it usually only takes a slight touch on the grip to get it back to 0/0. Of course, I still spent well into the night initially until I had found the right setting. ?  The key here is to make very tiny changes when adjusting the clutches - otherwise you might overshoot the sweet-spot.

 

Thing with the Evo IMO is that since it can handle only a fraction of the spring-strength the Gunfighter can, it's fairly easy to overdampen it.

 

At the end of the day, it's also a matter of personal choice, I guess. I prefer a rather stiff Y-axis and as much dampening as I can get away with - but some folks might prefer a more "floppy" feel. Personally, I think you can get more precision and predictability with stronger springs and dampening, but that's just my opinion.

 

S.

[LukeFF]

36 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

I found that a *little* "stickiness" or the stick stopping like 100 positions from center when you let it snap back isn't that big of a deal. If it does the latter, it usually only takes a slight touch on the grip to get it back to 0/0. Of course, I still spent well into the night initially until I had found the right setting. ?  The key here is to make very tiny changes when adjusting the clutches - otherwise you might overshoot the sweet-spot.

 

Thing with the Evo IMO is that since it can handle only a fraction of the spring-strength the Gunfighter can, it's fairly easy to overdampen it.

 

At the end of the day, it's also a matter of personal choice, I guess. I prefer a rather stiff Y-axis and as much dampening as I can get away with - but some folks might prefer a more "floppy" feel. Personally, I think you can get more precision and predictability with stronger springs and dampening, but that's just my opinion.

 

S.

 

Yep, sounds like I need to pull out the Allen wrench again and do some more tinkering. ?