Regarding WEP engine timers with the recent patch (P-51)

[the_emperor]

I know that this a hot topic (and I dont want to discuss the mechanic per se)  but with the recent patch I think some thing changed, at least with the P-51.

Usually I could stretch my WEP time with rpm reduction but now pulling 67 inches at 2600-2700rpm I get the infamous "exceeded" warning after 5 minutes and engine damage after 7min.

Though I think that tying the WEP time limit to the MAP is favourable since it commands you, when you tap into that power, to use everything at your disposal (all available MAP&rpm). this seems only to effect the P-51. (and robs me of the only defensive manoeuvre I am able to perform reliably, running XD)

just a qick test butThe Spitfire IX can still happily stretch their 5min by reducing rpm to 2600-2700 and the the La-5fn can still stretch their ridiculous (in contrast to most manuals) 10min WEP to 20min when reducing rpm from 2500 to 2400.

Just a small observation from me. 

Happy flying.

[Talon_]

14 hours ago, the_emperor said:

just a qick test butThe Spitfire IX can still happily stretch their 5min by reducing rpm to 2600-2700

 

Merlins in Spits and Mustangs get the same WEP/Combat timers. You can fly a Mustang for one hour at the equivalent of 12lbs 2650rpm and you can fly a Spitfire for 15 minutes at 61" 2700rpm (+15lbs if I recall)

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

Merlins in Spits and Mustangs get the same WEP/Combat timers. You can fly a Mustang for one hour at the equivalent of 12lbs 2650rpm and you can fly a Spitfire for 15 minutes at 61" 2700rpm (+15lbs if I recall)

Yes but hes not questioning that, that works ok in game, question is why is timer behaving differant on same engine on two differant airplanes. If you fly full power (+18lbs or 67") but use slightly lower rpm then 3000 to extend safe time of 5min, on Spitfire 9 safe timer is longer then 5min, on P-51 is not, but your using same settings. They should both behave same.

On Spit9 +18lbs 2750rpm timer run out after more then 15min, P-51 67" 2750 rpm it runs out after 5min, same settings same engine, why engine timer last 3 times more on Spitfire 9 ? 

Edited December 3, 2022 by CountZero

[Talon_]

6 hours ago, CountZero said:

P-51 67" 2750 rpm it runs out after 5min

It doesn't, you need to run 3000rpm to burn the whole timer in 5 minutes

[the_emperor]

P-51: At 67" and 2600rpm I get the exceeded warning after 5min and the damage message after ~7min.

Spitfire IX: at 18lbs and 2600rpm exceeded warning after ~15-17min and damage message after ~22min.

What I am questioning here is

1) why do have (more or less) the same engines different limits?

2) why and how is my WEP timing calculated by reducing rpms?

3) how about an artificial gauge/bar für WEP to make the WEP drainage/recharge visible (just as an option to enable in SP) as of now, there is no way to read that by engines gauges (I know not very sim like but the current mechanic itself is not sim like so....) 

Edited December 3, 2022 by the_emperor

[CountZero]

6 hours ago, Talon_ said:

It doesn't, you need to run 3000rpm to burn the whole timer in 5 minutes

After i saw this topic i tested it 5 times with Spitfire 9 and P-51D with instrument panel on so i can see when i get message that timer expired and in all 5 tests it runs out after 5min on P-51D on 67" 2750 rpm and after 15min on Spit9 at +18lbs 2750rpm... have you run test or your just beliving nothing changed and think its behaving like it did before ? something was changed to P-51D engine timer, and not to Spitfire 9 one, by mistake or intentional, but its behaving differantly now.

Edited December 3, 2022 by CountZero

[CUJO_1970]

Full boost with lowered RPM…what could go wrong?

 

 

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Full boost with lowered RPM…what could go wrong?

 

 

In game apsolutly nothing, you even benefit with more speed and longer timer on many airplanes in game.

Problem here is, why same engine in two differant airplanes does not behave same when it comes to engine timers... did British use differant engine timer system then Americans ? how is that posible ? is British engine build from stronger material ? or its bug ?

Same engine should not have engine timer behaving differantly, and its clear that in game it does.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

In game I've noticed lowering the RPM to extend timers only works when the RPM setting is different between the two modes. The spit has a lower RPM for combat (2850) then for WEP (3000) so the trick will work. The 51 uses 3000 for both settings so the trick wont be effective for extending WEP. You can use the trick on the 51 to extend combat though, because the continuous setting uses a lower RPM then combat. 

[the_emperor]

thank you @=MERCS=JenkemJunkie

that does make sense but also shows, that the game is lacking an engine simulation, and uses some arcade like mechanics (boost/regeneration).

I guess by now we should have the option to turn that off and have fuel/oil/water&methanol consumption, water/oil temps, and oil pressure/viscosity have the limiting factors for our engines. instead of these limits with artificial regeneration mechanic, which we cant read or feel any where from the engine. As we dont have to conserve our engines for a 100h+service life. we always get brand new one. So, running the engine at max power as long the above mentioned limits are ok, should be no probleme. I now that is also no the ideal of a simulation but having that as an option we can choose, would certainly be nice to have.

[CountZero]

16 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

In game I've noticed lowering the RPM to extend timers only works when the RPM setting is different between the two modes. The spit has a lower RPM for combat (2850) then for WEP (3000) so the trick will work. The 51 uses 3000 for both settings so the trick wont be effective for extending WEP. You can use the trick on the 51 to extend combat though, because the continuous setting uses a lower RPM then combat. 

But IT IS THE SAME ENGINE, how is something writen in pilots manual have any effect on SAME ENGINE behaving differant when nothing is changed exept text in manual, are they working by some magic principals or phisics , if behavior in P-51D is correct one, then Spitfire 9 should behave same, or if behavior of Spitfire 9 is correct then P-51D should behave same, they both cant be correct just because text in manual, ENGINE IS BUILD SAME WAY LOL 

 

Its clear example of stupidity of this fantasy engine timer system that WT would be ashamed of

 

[Ghost666]

There is a lot more to an engine system then just the engine. You have to consider things like the radiator and air intakes and oil radiators and fuel system and air flow within the airframe and the kitchen sink and ...................

 

It would be a shame if all they looked at was engine.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

But IT IS THE SAME ENGINE, how is something writen in pilots manual have any effect on SAME ENGINE behaving differant when nothing is changed exept text in manual, are they working by some magic principals or phisics , if behavior in P-51D is correct one, then Spitfire 9 should behave same, or if behavior of Spitfire 9 is correct then P-51D should behave same, they both cant be correct just because text in manual, ENGINE IS BUILD SAME WAY LOL 

 

Its clear example of stupidity of this fantasy engine timer system that WT would be ashamed of

 

The devs didn't choose the timers based on what the engine could handle. They just take whatever the manual says and that's it, end of discussion. So the spit and 51 using the same engine doesn't mean anything if the Americans decided to be wusses with their time limits in the manuals. Your wasting your time if your comparing real world data with the timers. The timers act like a fantasy mechanic because they are a fantasy mechanic. There's a game logic to them, but there's no real world logic to them.

[the_emperor]

@=MERCS=JenkemJunkie that is is the issue, isnt it? it feels like an arcade mechanic (we unfortunately cant see or feel in any way or form) and not like a simulation

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Yeah, if the real engines worked like the IL2 engines, then the engineers could have saved alot of money by removing most of the gauges, and just placing a giant clock on the dashboard instead.

[Sgt_Joch]

Well, this subject has been beaten to death over the years without any change. Everyone agrees the current system is too simplistic and restrictive. Even the Devs have mentioned they would like to have more complex engine management, although like drop tanks, this seems to be way down the priority list. The Devs have also mentioned at one time having an option to turn off timers, although that as well was never implemented. Meanwhile the system is what it is and players just have to adjust their flying and tactics in consequence. After a while, it becomes second nature.