Unified gun recoil and torque

[Oyster_KAI]

I think the existing gun recoil and torque effects in the game warrant a general check in all aircraft.

If we compare the representative 20mm wing guns, the Allied Spitfire or Tempest can obviously feel the recoil (newly added when the Mosquito is released).
But in 109 or 190, whether it is 2 gun pod wing guns or 190 4 cannons, the recoil is very weak, especially the MG-FF wing gun of 109E-7, which has almost no recoil.

Regarding torque, I can feel it at 109s (except E-7)/190s/P-51s (still too weak though).
The rest of the aircraft can pretty much keep flying straight with hands free and Elevator trim.

This game wouldn't be challenging and joyful to fly without more FM detailed simulations.

[SCG_motoadve]

Torque is super weak in game, and gun recoil effect almost non existent.

More realistic effects on this area would make this sim really good.

It could be optional so if some people dont like it , leave it the way it is as Reduced torque

Reduced recoil.

Also an option for MP servers.

One example of great recoil simulation its on CLOD 109 E 7 20 mm cannons.

Edited November 29, 2022 by SCG_motoadve

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I think you right, also old biplanes do not have that much adverse yaw as one would imagine.

[Oyster_KAI]

It's not just the lack of details about FM that worries me...

Now only 1/3~1/4 of the aircraft in the game can feel the torque a little bit
It willbe good if every plane felt as much torque in the air as it does on the ground...
But there is still the problem that the brakes are too weak, but I can live with this problem.

I personally care more about the immersion and experience when I fly, so I hope that every plane is in the same universe?

[JG27*PapaFly]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:22 PM, Oyster_KAI said:

I think the existing gun recoil and torque effects in the game warrant a general check in all aircraft.

I can't comment on recoil. I don't know whether there's any useful quantitative data on that topic.  If not, we're left with calculations,  which might or might not be realistic,  and which might need significant tweaking in order to replicate differences in gun designs.  I also have the impression that torque is weak,  but IMO it's fairly consistent across the plane set. It's gyroscopic forces where I see a lot of inconsistencies despite a solid amount of historic data and pilot accounts. 

[SCG_motoadve]

5 hours ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

I can't comment on recoil. I don't know whether there's any useful quantitative data on that topic.  If not, we're left with calculations,  which might or might not be realistic,  and which might need significant tweaking in order to replicate differences in gun designs.  I also have the impression that torque is weak,  but IMO it's fairly consistent across the plane set. It's gyroscopic forces where I see a lot of inconsistencies despite a solid amount of historic data and pilot accounts. 

I read for the Yak with 30 mm cannon you needed to be a certain speed or else the airplane will stall with the recoil if you were going slow.

It means recoil is a big issue

IRL which we dont have in game.

[Oyster_KAI]

6 hours ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

but IMO it's fairly consistent across the plane set.

Very suspicious of this....
*******************
Fly 109FGK, then fly Spitfire and similar single engine fighters.....
You can fly in a straight line with your hands free in the latter.
*******************
Have you ever flown 109E7?
Fire the wing cannon MG-FF, and you don't need any data collection or complicated knowledge, and you can feel almost no recoil.

[Kurfurst]

19 hours ago, Oyster_KAI said:

Have you ever flown 109E7?
Fire the wing cannon MG-FF, and you don't need any data collection or complicated knowledge, and you can feel almost no recoil.

 

It’s a low velocity gun firing a light shell, plus its a blowback design - it literally uses the gun’s own bolt weight to eat up the recoil of the projectile.

[dbuile]

I think when this was first post, I took up a 109 E and fired the guns... going from memory (I'm not going to test it again), it decelerated the aircraft, a long burst knocked off like 20 km/h before I stopped shooting.   The fact you cannot *feel* inertia while sitting in your computer chair probably leads to inaccurate statements that recoil is non-existent in the game.

 

Something I'd consider:  depending how recoil vectors line up with the aircraft axis, the recoil may affect the angle of the aircraft.   Whether we can detect this sitting in a computer chair with joysticks sitting on a desk is another story.

 

On 12/27/2022 at 12:33 PM, VO101Kurfurst said:

uses the gun’s own bolt weight to eat up the recoil of the projectile.

You cannot avoid physics... the inertia will still be transmitted into the airframe via the variations exchanges of energy to stop the bolt.

 

Regardless, calculating recoil force shouldn't be hard for ballistics experts... you already have muzzle velocity and projectile mass...  I can't imagine such figures were not taken into account.

[Roland_HUNter]

If you turn on the headshake in the camera settings, you can see there is some kind of recoil, even for the .50 cal.
They should not allow head shaking to be switched off.