Interesting bug with Bomber escort mission

[Sybreed]

hey all,

 

I was doing a bomber escort mission in a BoM campaign with the MC202.

 

During the flight, I noticed the bombers were strangely all trying to climb at a low speed. They always had this angle during their entire flight.

 

 

Also, after some bombers dropped their bombs (only a few reached the target during the bombing run, the rest were too far behind), they turned around but did not follow their own waypoints. Or, at least, they decided not to return to base. My plane was on autopilot, following them. See how far I am from where we are supposed to be.

 

 

What's even more interesting is the after mission screen. I had to ditch the mission otherwise I would have ran out of fuel....

 

 

First, look at the green line. This is the path I took on autopilot and see just how far north we went. Also, notice where I turned around. That's when the bombers dropped their bombs on their target. Yet, I was flying directly above many bombers as well. In the entire flight of bombers, I think only 2 or 3 dropped their bombs.

 

Second, look at all the red exclamation marks. These were all I-16s escorting bombers as well, PE-2s, and almost all exclamation marks said "I-16 down". If I'm not mistaken, running out of fuel and crashing can result in that. I'm starting to wonder if these I-16 weren't also completely out of course for a while as well and they all ran out of fuel, but I didn't witness anything unfortunately.

 

If this is something the devs know about, I hope this get fixed in the next patch! Otherwise, bomber escorts might be unplayable for a while.

 

 

edit: And here's the mission file. Hope this works.

 

_gen.zip

Edited November 30, 2022 by Sybreed

[Sybreed]

Mission file is too big (8mg), any other way to post it?

[RedeyeStorm]

Zip it? Or use Dropbox.

[saldy]

Yes , same bug with bombers in scripted missions.

[Falcon41]

I’ve just recently experienced similar bomber activity in a mission I was building.  I’ve tried changing the type of bomber and their bomb load but the same type of behavior continues.  I’ve no idea, perhaps the developers can look into this.

Falcon41

[Sybreed]

Edited my first post with the mission file. 

 

oh wait now I can add it here as well.

_gen.zip

Edited November 30, 2022 by Sybreed

[dbuile]

Same alt, formation, and formation density as the mission I had a similar issue with, but me being in the bomber formation 

I'd consider changing params in the mission file myself to see what triggers the issue (alt, but not formation type/density?), but I'm not at a computer with IL-2 for a couple weeks.   I'm curious whether a dip in engine perf plays into the behavior, getting planes into high aoa, slow flight that they don't "know" how to get out of.

 

Anyways, I'll let the experienced QA folks do the exploring  

[9./JG52Gruber]

Just encountered this in a BoM career bomber escort mission with a flight of JU 88's. They were to fly at 2km but the entire 30 minute flight to target all but the leader were climbing to 8km and then dropping down only to start to climb again. 75 minutes spent escorting this mess to target and back. This is in need of an urgent fix as bomber escort missions in career are generally quite good. 

[mronon]

I've encountered this exact same problem on multiple bomber escort missions, and it really ruins the mission for me. It makes everything take twice as long since the bombers are going so slow. And to make matters worse, it disperses the formation and thus makes them all individually much more vulnerable. Hope to see it fixed soon.  

[9./JG52Gruber]

Curious if anybody who has encountered this made changes to the default flight plan? In my case I moved the return waypoint to an airfield further behind the lines. Two escort missions today I made no changes and all went as it should.

[Sybreed]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:13 PM, 9./JG52Gruber said:

Curious if anybody who has encountered this made changes to the default flight plan? In my case I moved the return waypoint to an airfield further behind the lines. Two escort missions today I made no changes and all went as it should.

 

No change of plans made. I wouldn't even know how to do that.

[No.85_Camm]

I have encountered exactly the same problem Two flights of 88's ( 5 in each flight)  their heights vary from about 950m up to about 5000mshould be flying at 950m bur their heights vary from about 200m up to about 6000mn. They aren't even flying along their waypoints. A single AI aircraft (doing a recon flight) shoulld be at 5000m but entered the target area at about 300m

Also, hey dont even hold formation. Some of the Aircraft enf up going round in circles

Many hours of work completely wasted

It seems as though the problem started after the last update

[9./JG52Gruber]

Has anybody experienced with a bomber other than He 111 or Ju 88? 

[PA_Willy]

40 minutes ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

Has anybody experienced with a bomber other than He 111 or Ju 88? 

Of course. B-26, for example.

[No.85_Camm]

1 hour ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

Has anybody experienced with a bomber other than He 111 or Ju 88? 

It is the same with C47's and 109's. It seems to be that all groups (formations) of Aircraft

[Monty_Thrud]

I still can't get the Handley Page/Gotha Bombers to fly In formation and drop their bombs on target.

 

Handley Page Bombers fly in circles around the sqd leader whilst losing height then crashing and only one makes it through but only sometimes drops bombs.

 

Gothas keep height but eventually flip and circle into ground except one, who also wont drop bombs.

 

Other aircraft either wont start, just fires engine/runs for a bit then cuts out/rinse and repeat. Cant get Typhoon to taxi on Newchurch Airfield, they also start/stop continually.

[Ghost666]

5 hours ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

Has anybody experienced with a bomber other than He 111 or Ju 88? 

Ju52 also.

[Falcon41]

Yes, the Me110

[ztgschl]

On 12/10/2022 at 1:07 PM, 9./JG52Gruber said:

Has anybody experienced with a bomber other than He 111 or Ju 88? 

HS 129 - flying near stall speed amd members dropping out of formation

PE 2 - loose formation with 100+ meters in altitude difference

[kraut1]

Yesterday I tried some Bombers with Vanders EMG:

-A20 and B25 worked (6 planes with start) with Vanders EMG default settings

-with He111 / Ju88 there were some problems, but not so extreme (no crashes / stalls) because the default bomb load and fuel are already comparable low.

I reduced speed for He111 from 375 to 350 and for Ju88 from 400 to 375 and for both fuel from 0.6 to 0.5.

-small 3 plane formations worked  with start

-6 plane formation worked with Air-Start (by option "Skip Start for Lead Group") (1x tested). This option can be used with realistic intercept or escort missions (escort starts on runway)

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by kraut1

[No.85_Camm]

Irrespective of the comments about the settings (and I have tried altering the speed and the Bomb load and the Fuel load), I maintain what I said in my previous post (Before it was buried in this post)...The AI is broken!!!

From take off, the lead bomber flies perfectly, the rest of the flight fly all over the place,,,,even climbing until they stall. Reference a previous comment, NO Aircraft would try to climb if it is overload with fuel or Ordnance. 

I have put together over 30 missions and never had these problems....not until the last update.

incidentally...I dont do Airstarts. I prefer a Take off

Edited December 14, 2022 by No.85_Camm

[No_85_Gramps]

I have to agree with Cam on this one. We sometimes collaborate on building missions and have both encountered the same issues. Given that others have also voiced their concerns, it would be nice if someone from the development team chimed in to at least maybe acknowledge the problem. 

[kraut1]

YES IT IS AN VERY SERIOUS BUG, THAT HAS TO BE FIXED URGENTLY!

But just an info until it is fixed my updated test results with Vanders EMG v69:

-A20 / B25 / Ju87 seems to work at least with 6 plane formations with start, default EMG bomb load.

-He111-H6 with default EMG settings serious issues, but with EMG  default bomb load, reduced speed 340km/h, fuel 0.3 or 0.4:

10 plane formation start and whole bombing mission (alt4000m, ca.140km /170km target dist.) worked, whole mission AI controlled.

Open formation, but not totally chaotic.

Ju88-A4: most serious issue, with default EMG settings even with 3 plane formations issues.

With reduced speed 360km/h, fuel 0.4, whole AI controlled missions worked only with 3 plane formations, 4,6,10 planes did not work.

Fighters / heavy fighters: not checked because I use only max. 4 plane flights. But up to 4 planes I had no problems.

BUT AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY AN STOPGAP SOLUTION. BUG TO BE URGENTLY FIXED.

 

[No.85_Camm]

1 hour ago, kraut1 said:

YES IT IS AN VERY SERIOUS BUG, THAT HAS TO BE FIXED URGENTLY!

But just an info until it is fixed my updated test results with Vanders EMG v69:

-A20 / B25 / Ju87 seems to work at least with 6 plane formations with start, default EMG bomb load.

-He111-H6 with default EMG settings serious issues, but with EMG  default bomb load, reduced speed 340km/h, fuel 0.3 or 0.4:

10 plane formation start and whole bombing mission (alt4000m, ca.140km /170km target dist.) worked, whole mission AI controlled.

Open formation, but not totally chaotic.

Ju88-A4: most serious issue, with default EMG settings even with 3 plane formations issues.

With reduced speed 360km/h, fuel 0.4, whole AI controlled missions worked only with 3 plane formations, 4,6,10 planes did not work.

Fighters / heavy fighters: not checked because I use only max. 4 plane flights. But up to 4 planes I had no problems.

BUT AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY AN STOPGAP SOLUTION. BUG TO BE URGENTLY FIXED.

 

Thank you very much kraut for your comment and your acknowledgement that there is a major problem with the AI. It's a pity the Devs dont do the same.

I have been trying with 9 planes initially, then 7 planes, then 5....all had the same problems, Any less than 5, the mission isn't worth doing. Almost a months work completely wasted

Come back Jason......all is forgiven

[kraut1]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:27 AM, No.85_Camm said:

Thank you very much kraut for your comment and your acknowledgement that there is a major problem with the AI. It's a pity the Devs dont do the same.

I have been trying with 9 planes initially, then 7 planes, then 5....all had the same problems, Any less than 5, the mission isn't worth doing. Almost a months work completely wasted

Come back Jason......all is forgiven

Change log:

5.004
....
7.    AI pilots correctly climb while maintaining formation;

 

I tested one AI flown Ju88-A4 9-plane formation from take off to target with 4xSC250, fuel 0.56:

Worked, the whole formation reached the target...

[No_85_Gramps]

Well, my experience is different. Here's a video clip showing 5 HE-111's from take-off, at about the 2:30 mark you can see the 3 trailing bombers start to turn, as the lead bomber flies off into the distance. Eventually the lead ship gets over 10 kms away as the marker disappears. I think eventually, if I had watched long enough, they would have gotten back into formation, as they did previously. So for me, this is not a "it's been fixed" moment. 

 

Edited: My cohort Cam reports that the 88's in one of his missions are working correctly. I have not tried a mission with the 88's yet. Thanks to the developers for the progress made.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by No_85_Gramps

[saldy]

I tested Fw 190F-8 and Ju88C+A. Now work OK ?

Edited December 23, 2022 by saldy

[Falcon41]

I experienced the same thing with Ju88's and Me110's but that seems to be corrected with the last hotfix; however, I am experiencing a similar issue with P-40s.  Perhaps the developers should look into all aircraft.

Falcon41