It lack civilian car!

[Irtis]

Hello there!

 

Just a quick question, is there any expected civilian car (or other stuff like horses etc.) in the future?

The game lack life. The normandy map is great but with civilian stuff it will be better.

 

Thanks,

Irtis

[LukeFF]

There are already horse objects in the game.

[352ndOscar]

…cows too!

[Wardog5711]

Quote

Just a quick question, is there any expected civilian car (or other stuff like horses etc.) in the future?

The game lack life. The normandy map is great but with civilian stuff it will be better.

Highly doubtful. The Devs have enough on their plates right now without adding civilian vehicles which would most likely end up being targets.

 

 

[MAJ_stug41]

There were extraordinarily few civilians driving around in any area presently mapped. Fuel was rationed, and by 44 all vehicles the germans could get their hands on were confiscated for their use.

 

Everything on the roads was a target, and pilots werent going to take the time to check that a little renault buzzing down the street was not filled with germans before adding some speed holes.

 

Having more light vehicles would be nice, but they certainly wouldnt be driven by anyone not in service of the military.

 

We could have Rommel's staff car running around the normandy map for people to hunt ?

[Blitzen]

CloD has a sporty MGT?....not drivable but still....Bit hard to find on missions but they are there occasionally just waiting for fighter boys to return for  atrip to the local!

[Juri_JS]

We have the Gaz-M and the Horch 830. Both were used by the military and also as civilian cars.

[BlitzPig_EL]

There are also a couple old timers among the WW1 vehicles.

[Jade_Monkey]

It would be cool to have static fishing boats in the harbors and ocean but definitely not a dealbreaker, just a wish.

[MAJ_stug41]

Even wwiiol had a racecar for the track at Spa ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W154

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I'm not an expert in this field but I always understood that the increase of objects in a map decreases the fps, in offline mode but especially in online mode. We are in 2022 but still at the dawn of PC flight sims.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Other flight sims have lots of civilian vehicles in large, extraordinarily detailed urban areas, so it’s either an engine limitation or just not any type of priority.   I think they have a lot of things on their plate that they need to fix first before they would add luxury items like civilian traffic.

[Avimimus]

Honestly, I've been wanting to drive the 'staff car' for years... and especially the weird British WWI truck.

 

IMHO, the 'low hanging fruit' would be letting us remove the anti-aircraft guns from the anti-aircraft vehicles (and possibly giving them a cargo object). This would be nice. Especially for racing the GAZ (lower CG and less guilt about the number of people riding on the outside when I flip it).

 

On 11/28/2022 at 5:12 PM, SeaSerpent said:

Other flight sims have lots of civilian vehicles in large, extraordinarily detailed urban areas, so it’s either an engine limitation or just not any type of priority.   I think they have a lot of things on their plate that they need to fix first before they would add luxury items like civilian traffic.

 

There are also decisions about where to spend processing power. They've done a remarkable job of providing visual and physics fidelity which rivals (or even surpasses) competitors while keeping the game playable on hardware which is >8 years old. The only exception is the gradual appearance of stutter on BoBP and BoN maps... and that appears sometimes even on new hardware.

 

I do think increasing the active object count would be wonderful though - more less accurate anti-aircraft guns - larger convoys to strafe (easier to find and attack)... larger bomber formations... it'd be a 'game changer'. Maybe they could do it as an option so that people could still select a 'reduced object count' if they couldn't afford newer hardware?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

With all due respect, but the presence or absence of civilian cars has absolutely nothing to do with object count limits. The reason they're not in the game is, as Wardog5711 says, that it takes time (and money) to develop them, and with so many military vehicles still left to develop I think they're right to hold out on civilian vehicles that, as said, were rarely used during the war due to fuel rationing.

 

That said, I think the 2 staff cars (the Horch 830 and GAZ-M) combined with some of the WW1 trucks work well enough to simulate civilian vehicles, in the rare cases that you need them.

[Swing]

I want a caravan...

 

 

[AndyJWest]

Just now, Swing said:

I want a caravan...

 

 

 

They should parachute it to the French resistance. Driven around the countryside it would do more to disrupt German logistics than blowing up a few railway lines ever could.... ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

The four automobiles available in the Mission Editor:

 

From the left, Horch 830, Gaz M, Mercedes Kw22, Crossley T5.

[Gambit21]

Look at Mr. "I can't use the damn mission editor, all is lost!!" posting pictures from the editor and being all "mission buildy" ?

 

 

 

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:16 PM, Jade_Monkey said:

It would be cool to have static fishing boats in the harbors and ocean but definitely not a dealbreaker, just a wish.

I agree but, in the sea, in a harbor, it is not possible to have a static ship as it has to move with the sea waves according to the Sea State parameter.

Everything on ground could have a static counterpart but for ships that is difficult. We could have static ships that are aground. Like destroyed ships rotting on the beach or in shallow water. One cargo, a submarine, a peniche, some landing vehicles and a torpedo boat would be perfect. These static ships being burnt and destroyed would not need to be of a given nationality which makes it simpler and would be used to improve the war theater. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Look at Mr. "I can't use the damn mission editor, all is lost!!" posting pictures from the editor and being all "mission buildy" ?

 

 

So, I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.  

[Avimimus]

I think it is also worth mentioning that rationing of fuel during the war meant that many people reverted to walking (or using horses - at least until the horses were also used up). So one shouldn't expect much civilian traffic, especially near the front.

 

That said... I still kind-of want to drive those staff cars around.

 

P.S. I agree about the fishermen though - they would be out and active throughout the entire war - people need to eat, and a lot of the craft would have used sails.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Avimimus

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:57 AM, IckyATLAS said:

I agree but, in the sea, in a harbor, it is not possible to have a static ship as it has to move with the sea waves according to the Sea State parameter.

I use the static mlbr_flooded_ship_a and b for stationary ships in a couple of missions I'm making, and with good effect. When flying a couple of hundred feet overhead at 230mph, you don't really notice they don't move with the waves. At least I don't. In my opinion, the lack of movement by far doesn't outweigh the increased CPU usage of the "dynamic" ship objects.

[Irtis]

On 12/1/2022 at 12:48 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

With all due respect, but the presence or absence of civilian cars has absolutely nothing to do with object count limits. The reason they're not in the game is, as Wardog5711 says, that it takes time (and money) to develop them, and with so many military vehicles still left to develop I think they're right to hold out on civilian vehicles that, as said, were rarely used during the war due to fuel rationing.

 

That said, I think the 2 staff cars (the Horch 830 and GAZ-M) combined with some of the WW1 trucks work well enough to simulate civilian vehicles, in the rare cases that you need them.

 

En reality civilian car was maybe not used (or a little, due to fuel rationing) but every farmer had a plough, horse or cow! (or a horse-drawn carriage [is not the good thanslation but imposible to find the word..])

I can't believe that a plough is hard to create (or buy it if you don't have any time), a lot of studio buy assets.

 

 

On 12/1/2022 at 3:05 AM, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

The four automobiles available in the Mission Editor:

 

From the left, Horch 830, Gaz M, Mercedes Kw22, Crossley T5.

 

ok, you got me ?
But Mission Editor is =! that have those car around the map do their stuff automaticly, or just parked in town.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Irtis
add horse-drawn carriage

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, Irtis said:

En reality civilian car was maybe not used (or a little, due to fuel rationing) but every farmer had a plough, horse or cow! (or a horse-drawn carriage [is not the good thanslation but imposible to find the word..])

You have a point there. I did put up a request for horse-drawn transports once, only I envisioned them more as military transports.

 

2 hours ago, Irtis said:

But Mission Editor is =! that have those car around the map do their stuff automaticly, or just parked in town.

And that is where you *do* get into the realm of object count limits.

 

In simple terms, each vehicle costs a bit of CPU power. If there are more than 20 to 30 vehicles, the game won't run smoothly anymore. How many civilian cars/plows/carriages/whatever would you need across the whole map to make for a believable effect? Even if you pre-filter the possible locations so that they only spawn within e.g. 10km of the planned flight path, 2 or 3 clearly doesn't cut it. Add that to the objects already there, and you're looking at a bogged-down, slow running game.

 

For manually created missions, this isn't as much a problem since the mission writer kind of knows what'll happen where, and could adjust the spawning/despawning of "civilian" vehicles as desired so that the mission runs smoothly everywhere.

[Irtis]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

If there are more than 20 to 30 vehicles, the game won't run smoothly anymore. 

 

Oh boy! ?

 

Yeah but we are in 2022! We have better Hardware and software now.

Look at the "dots" in Unity for the CPU, and "Nanite" in Unreal for GPUs. It's just so crazy. (ok, ok, 36 dev. versus 5000 ?)

 

 

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Irtis said:

Yeah but we are in 2022! We have better Hardware and software now.

Look at the "dots" in Unity for the CPU, and "Nanite" in Unreal for GPUs. It's just so crazy. (ok, ok, 36 dev. versus 5000 ?)

Please don't play the "it's 2022 so computers must be able to do this" card, it's getting old ?

 

The amount of devs and their budget is likely one of the problems, yes.

 

One other issue, based on the interviews with the Devs, is that the Devs insist that all vehicles should behave realistically regarding physics/AI (and, taking their word for it, this is pretty well optimised already). That means their vehicles have to run relatively complex logic, but on the other hand behave like they should on complex terrain etc. This is a design choice rather than engine limitation. Is it a solid design choice? Personally I think the vehicle physics/AI could be simplified a bit, especially for faraway vehicles. It also doesn't help that IL2 includes a tank component - for tank combat, good vehicle physics are a must. For purely the flying part of the sim, you don't really notice the advanced physics anyhow if you're flying 100m overhead at 300kph. Personally, I think the best option would be to have some kind of "simplified physics" for AI vehicles that a mission designer can enable at will.