Are the Yak engine sounds accurate?

[Nickkyboy99]

For the Yak1, 1b, etc., are the engine sounds accurate? 

 

Asking because personally, (especially in 3rd person) I think they sound like ass. Can't find any Yak videos so don't really know how they actually sound like. Though in War Thunder the Yak sounds really good but again, that's in War Thunder so..

[BlitzPig_EL]

The engine sounds in general are not that great.  The absolute best is the A20.

[oc2209]

20 minutes ago, Nickkyboy99 said:

For the Yak1, 1b, etc., are the engine sounds accurate?

 

You mean they should be heftier sounds, and not like a lawnmower running underwater?

 

Yeah, they could use some improvement. They don't sound so bad from the exterior (in my opinion), but in the cockpit, they're pretty weak.

 

*Edit:

 

There are plenty of YouTube videos showing Yaks with non-Klimov engines, but this might do:

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by oc2209

[oc2209]

Here we go, for side by side comparison:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Even though I'm leaning out of the cockpit, these are seemingly identical to (fully enclosed) interior sound effects:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Sybreed]

Engine sounds have never been il2's strongsuit... the bf109 does sound nice though. 

 

Exterior sounds need a complete revision IMO... especially when you have dcs and msfs around, il2 sounds almost arcadey.

[Motherbrain]

Engine sounds for pretty much all the aircraft in Il2 sound mushy and it's probably the sims second biggest weakness after its AI.

 

The Spitfire and the Mustangs sounds are particularly bad.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Motherbrain

[DBS]

Most if not all engine sounds are poor. Some sound okay but all suffer from what sounds like a few second piece of engine sound repeating.

Edited November 24, 2022 by DBS

[Trooper117]

The worst engine sound is the Sabre in the Typhoon and Tempest... it's abysmal, nothing like the monster sound it should be.

[rvgls49]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

The worst engine sound is the Sabre in the Typhoon and Tempest... it's abysmal, nothing like the monster sound it should be.

Buy a Sound Blaster AE-9 sound cart and a (very) good headphone and you will change your opinion immediately.

[Trooper117]

No I won't, sorry... Have you ever heard the Napier Sabre?

[Motherbrain]

58 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

No I won't, sorry... Have you ever heard the Napier Sabre?

 

Yah I agree. The one in Il2 sounds like a leaf blower. ?

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

No I won't, sorry... Have you ever heard the Napier Sabre?

 

I imagine most people have not, given that there are no flyable Typhoons or Tempests anywhere right now.

[Art-J]

^ On the contrary, I'd say (playing devil's advocate here a bit) - with only one period recording of the real thing known to exist and available on youtube for years, everybody who's interested in the Sabre-powered planes have probably listened to it multiple times.

 

And while we're at it, the recording confirms what one would expect - the engine might have been a technological and power beast, but with unusually tiny cylinders and unusually high RPMs, when revved up it sounded like farting into a bucket mixed with vacuum cleaner. Tempest and Tiffy sounds in GB capture that pretty well, actually. I'd hazard a guess sound engineer used that old recording as a reference and he did a reasonably good job in my opinion.

[rvgls49]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

No I won't, sorry... Have you ever heard the Napier Sabre?

No, not for real. On YouTube I watched some tracks from typhoons with Napier Sabre. I watched some tracks/recordings from forum members flying the Tempest in IL2 and the sound was very mediocre. The cockpit sound was almost not auditable. But believe me, with a good soundcard and headphones the engine sounds are incredible for most of the plane engines. Especially the radial engines in different aircraft types are super and I love the taxi and stationary/idle sound of the FW190-A6.  

[ATAG_Headshot]

On 11/24/2022 at 1:27 PM, rvgls49 said:

No, not for real. On YouTube I watched some tracks from typhoons with Napier Sabre. I watched some tracks/recordings from forum members flying the Tempest in IL2 and the sound was very mediocre. The cockpit sound was almost not auditable. But believe me, with a good soundcard and headphones the engine sounds are incredible for most of the plane engines. Especially the radial engines in different aircraft types are super and I love the taxi and stationary/idle sound of the FW190-A6.  

I swear by a dedicated sound card and good headphones for gaming as well. It surprises me that sound cards aren't more common anymore, but most people seem to think that motherboard audio is good enough nowadays. Well, if you really enjoy having good sounds, it's not and that dedicated sound card will make everything sound SOOOOO much better in all kinds of games. 

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, ATAG_Headshot said:

I swear by a dedicated sound card and good headphones for gaming as well. It surprises me that sound cards aren't more common anymore, but most people seem to think that motherboard audio is good enough nowadays. Well, if you really enjoy having good sounds, it's not and that dedicated sound card will make everything sound SOOOOO much better in all kinds of games. 

 

Ditto. I experimented once with my motherboard's onboard audio and was unimpressed with the sound quality (and that was while using my Sony MDR-7506 headphones). Even just a good, basic sound card from Asus or Creative is a far, far better choice when it comes to audio quality.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:57 PM, oc2209 said:

 

You mean they should be heftier sounds, and not like a lawnmower running underwater?

 

Yeah, they could use some improvement. They don't sound so bad from the exterior (in my opinion), but in the cockpit, they're pretty weak.

 

*Edit:

 

There are plenty of YouTube videos showing Yaks with non-Klimov engines, but this might do:

 

 

 

They were supposed to install this engine in a Yak 1 found at the bottom of a lake near St Petersburg. The only ww2 airworthy russian bird with an original engine. The restoration project kind of fell apart though. 

 

I also saw a bunch of russian dudes running an AM 38F on yt.

 

I dont think any ORIGINAL Ash 82 that works remains though. What a pity considering like 60 000 were produced.

On 11/24/2022 at 2:46 PM, LukeFF said:

 

I imagine most people have not, given that there are no flyable Typhoons or Tempests anywhere right now.

 

The fact that NO airworthy Tempest remains kind of baffles me. I've seen a restoration project for a Mark II. Imagine an airworthy mark II with a Centaurus when there's no Mark V around. It would be weird.

 

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

all of IL2 engine sounds are synthetically generated, I remember seeing posts from Jason a while back referencing the licensing agreements with the devs of that synthesis.

 

If you want to hear the proper engine sound in game head for youtube and search for "that other sim" bf109 flyby, or p47 flyby videos, or any other of their ww2 aircraft. Those guys actually record/capture the real engine sounds from outside and inside the birds, along with fly-by's (although not for all I think).  I realize not everyone has access to such planes in real life to fully experience them, but it doesn't hurt to show the ultimate goal.

 

I think proper ww2 fighter engine sound is sex for anyone's ears ?

[AtomicP]

12 hours ago, omicron_21 said:

all of IL2 engine sounds are synthetically generated, I remember seeing posts from Jason a while back referencing the licensing agreements with the devs of that synthesis.

 

If you want to hear the proper engine sound in game head for youtube and search for "that other sim" bf109 flyby, or p47 flyby videos, or any other of their ww2 aircraft. Those guys actually record/capture the real engine sounds from outside and inside the birds, along with fly-by's (although not for all I think).  I realize not everyone has access to such planes in real life to fully experience them, but it doesn't hurt to show the ultimate goal.

 

I think proper ww2 fighter engine sound is sex for anyone's ears ?

That other sim has priviliged access to a hanger full of WW2 aircraft courtesy of the owner of said sim.

 

To the topic at hand, the 109 sounds good both in and out the cockpit: it's a meaty sounding engine. Other aircraft are decent if not as good as they could be given the efforts to model everything else.  However, I'd say that many of the Russian planes don't always give the impression that they're firing on all cylinders.

[DBFlyguy]

"The other sim"...."the other sim".... DCS...Digital Combat Simulatior...gasp...he said it ??

 

Yes, Eagle Dynamics (makers of DCS) have access to warbirds through the The Fighter Collection and the connections to the warbird community they've made over the years and it shows in spades in their excellent warbird modules.  But this also isn't the old days... A developer can get access to warbirds if they are willing to pay or make the effort... heck even relatively small youtube channels are gaining access to warbirds for their content these days.

 

To be fair though, sound has never been a strong suit of the IL2 series back from the Oleg days, not much has changed. 

 

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

"The other sim"...."the other sim".... DCS...Digital Combat Simulatior...gasp...he said it ??

 

 

wasn't sure I could name drop other sims here. too lazy to read the forum rules..

 

Il2 synthetic sounds aren't too bad for what they are, but the fact that devs haven't improved it over the past 4 years is discouraging. If they can't get the real engine sounds at least they could work on adding the sound positioning that varies depending on the angle of observation of the aircraft. I.e. being in front of the prop should sound different from being behind it, same goes for sound reflections from the fuselage, air speed at high elevation (when the motor is screaming due to pressure difference), etc.. etc... All of that adds to the immersion...

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

never been a strong suit of the IL2 series back from the Oleg days

 

 Sacrilege!!!... 

[RossMarBow]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:33 AM, rvgls49 said:

Buy a Sound Blaster AE-9 sound cart and a (very) good headphone and you will change your opinion immediately.

I have a top of the line sound system.

IL-2 just lacks low end pure and simple.

Maybe if you use your sound card to crank bass it will sound "better".

But the game engine just lacks low end sound.

[IckyATLAS]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:51 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Ditto. I experimented once with my motherboard's onboard audio and was unimpressed with the sound quality (and that was while using my Sony MDR-7506 headphones). Even just a good, basic sound card from Asus or Creative is a far, far better choice when it comes to audio quality.

I will try this. It could well be that we have sinned for simplicity of using the motherboard sound system and we got used to a not so good sound.

In the past, 10 years ago or more I always had a sound card.

I use a wireless Razer Thresher Ultimate headphone which is really good, and I have a much better result than some desk sound systems, but it is still hooked to the motherboard. Maybe I can improve.

 

On 11/24/2022 at 12:57 AM, oc2209 said:

 

 

 

You cannot use this sound to compare with the plane in the sim. This engine is completely naked, has no propeller and is on a standing rigid fixture firmly put on the ground. With a completely cased engine and propeller, set in a fuselage, the sound will be very different. Besides casing and propeller, fuselage and wings will vibrate, and they sit on springs (wheels), and all this filters some frequencies and amplifies others. The quality of the microphone is also an important element. Many videos on youtube are made with basic microphones and not professional setups, simply because sound is secondary. The quality of image comes first. the It is very difficult to recreate sounds. In addition to the mounting, the angle the distance the weather (humidity, pressure), the environment, like surfaces around, metallic garage walls, or wooden structures, all the objects where sound will reflect and come back to your ear or microphone, everything will contribute to changes in the sound and in its perception.

It is an endless topic of discussion. And yes one can do always better as perfection becomes a very subjective topic. Somebody in its twenties will hear very differently the same sound compared to someone in its sixties, with all the variations in between.

[Denum]

I put my sounds through Dolby and its not bad now, still lacks a bit of low end but its definitely better than it was. 

[150_GIAP-Red_Dragon]

24.11.2022 в 02:43, Nickkyboy99 сказал:

For the Yak1, 1b, etc., are the engine sounds accurate? 

 

Asking because personally, (especially in 3rd person) I think they sound like ass. Can't find any Yak videos so don't really know how they actually sound like. Though in War Thunder the Yak sounds really good but again, that's in War Thunder so..

The M105 engine was an upgrade of the M-103 engine, and the M-103 was an upgrade of the M-100, and the M-100 was a licensed Hispano-Suiza 12Y engine. So maybe the sound of the Yak engine should be similar to the sound of the Hispano-Suiza 12Y

 

P.s. The Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 was equipped with this Hispano-Suiza engine...   On YouTube it seems you can find a video with this plane. I don't know what kind of engine this plane is now

 

24.11.2022 в 02:57, oc2209 сказал:

 

You mean they should be heftier sounds, and not like a lawnmower running underwater?

 

Yeah, they could use some improvement. They don't sound so bad from the exterior (in my opinion), but in the cockpit, they're pretty weak.

 

*Edit:

 

There are plenty of YouTube videos showing Yaks with non-Klimov engines, but this might do:

 

 

 

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this engine in the video is not very similar to the M-105.. Maybe this is some kind of modernization of it

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by -332FG-Red_Pilot

[Art-J]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:15 PM, IckyATLAS said:

You cannot use this sound to compare with the plane in the sim. This engine is completely naked, has no propeller and is on a standing rigid fixture firmly put on the ground. With a completely cased engine and propeller, set in a fuselage, the sound will be very different. Besides casing and propeller, fuselage and wings will vibrate, and they sit on springs (wheels), and all this filters some frequencies and amplifies others. [...] In addition to the mounting, the angle the distance the weather (humidity, pressure), the environment, like surfaces around, metallic garage walls, or wooden structures, all the objects where sound will reflect and come back to your ear or microphone, everything will contribute to changes in the sound and in its perception.

The primary sound sources of any piston powered aircraft are the propeller itself and the exhaust system. Compared to these the other factors you mentioned are negligible in practical terms and although they're present, I think you overestimate their importance. Of course there are exceptions like extra sound of superchargers on DB engines, or prop drivetrains on P-39 and -63, but they're exceptions nevertheless. Speaking from personal experience in light general aviation manufacturing company I used to work for, whether we were ground testing our aircraft with engine cowling on or off, near the building or far from it - didn't matter - they always sounded the same, with propeller being the most audible component at higher rpms.

 

I agree 100% about the crappy audio quality of the vid above, and about lack of propeller noise. Exhaust stacks look original, however, so at least we've got the vague idea of how this part of the engine sounded like (though with such poor audio quality it's not really very different from any other open-exhaust, no-propeller videos out there and thus I suspect it's not very useful for game developers or modders).
 

12 hours ago, -332FG-Red_Pilot said:

P.s. The Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 was equipped with this Hispano-Suiza engine...   On YouTube it seems you can find a video with this plane. I don't know what kind of engine this plane is now

 

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this engine in the video is not very similar to the M-105.. Maybe this is some kind of modernization of it

Yes, the Swiss Morane is allegedly powered by restored HS engine, so that's quite an unique airplane.

 

The engine on the vid above is definitely Klimov. They bolted the exhaust stacks backwards and repositioned some accesories (mostly the tank on the top), but otherwise the reduction gear housing and the intake line with carbs under the exhaust are a dead giveaway. I wonder where the engine is now and what they plan to do with it.
 

[IckyATLAS]

I have just bought and installed a sound card, a Creative Sound Blaster AE5+.

I use the S/PDIF Optical output of the Sound Card to my Headphone base the Razer Thresher Ultimate.

I use the card with the Action/Adventure SBX profile, and with audio quality set to 32bits 96kHZ.

 

And then I fired up the engines and WOW!!! now engines have much more rich deep and complex sounds.

I tested the C47 engines and P39 and it is just impressive. I have not tested yet combat, explosions, machineguns tanks etc.

But I am sure it will be excellent too. I will comment my findings.

 

The AE5+ is not cheap but paired with a same level of quality headphones (The Razer was not cheap either) the immersion is just incredible.

In fact I was using an excellent headphone but with the standard mainboard default sound system.

As usual the result is good as the lowest quality element in the chain.

 

From now on my rigs will have a good sound card ? 

[kestrel79]

I liked the internal and external sounds when this sim first came out, it was way ahead of anything else at the time. However DCS has gotten way better with their WW2 aircraft noises and imo are the new standard.

[Oyster_KAI]

I have been using various recording interfaces/sound effect MIXERs to play PC sounds since 20 years ago.
The sound quality is definitely much better than the sound chip on the motherboard.
But the engine problem of this game is: the inconsistent engine output sound.
For example, when the RPM of the P-51 is fully open and the throttle is fully open, it still sounds a bit gentle and refined,
and the 70% output of the P-40/39 can achieve this feeling.
When P-51RPM is 80~90%, throttle is 90~100%, this is a strong engine thrust setting, but it sounds like about half of P-39/40.
At this time, it is impossible for most aircraft to listen to the sound to distinguish the engine output, which reduces a lot of immersion.

[Crocogator]

This video blew my mind. I imagine with a doppler effect and some air distortion this would be incredible for Il-2 or any other sim.
 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Crocogator
couldn't figure out the embedding!

[Noisemaker]

I fly (or rather, flew) IL-2 in my recording studio, with a full 3-way mains plus sub system, and something, let's say a little better than a soundblaster as a converter.

Are the sounds accurate?  No, not really.  The question is however, how much accuracy are we willing to pursue?

Take this recording of a Merlin engine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZ2_ANveYM

 

This recording is compressed (the dynamic range is limited), and then further compressed by Youtube.  Play this on your headphones at full volume.

Pretty painful, right?

Now realistically, even given the enclosed cockpit, headphones, and leather cap with ear flaps, that noise would likely be twice as loud (Although the higher, more sensitive frequencies, would be heavily attenuated, allowing one to hear the radio) in an actual cockpit.

If you want to simulate the hearing loss that our previous generations endured by enduring it yourself, feel free, but I'm happy with a simulated, but subdued engine sound.

 

[Rjel]

I wonder if it is actually the engine sound or is it that the prop sound isn't modeled in the sim? I had a buddy back in the late 1970s who had bought an Allison engine from E.J. Potter. It was loud as Hell but didn't sound like any airplane I'd seen at airshows. Both the P-40 and P-38 sounded completely different than did that V-12 sitting in a tractor. Or what passed as a tractor.

[Crocogator]

9 hours ago, Rjel said:

I wonder if it is actually the engine sound or is it that the prop sound isn't modeled in the sim? I had a buddy back in the late 1970s who had bought an Allison engine from E.J. Potter. It was loud as Hell but didn't sound like any airplane I'd seen at airshows. Both the P-40 and P-38 sounded completely different than did that V-12 sitting in a tractor. Or what passed as a tractor.

 

the medium through which the sound of the engine is travelling is also being worked on by the engine, and along with the changing position of the engine and its asymmetrical wash, the sound profile of the motor is altered a lot yeah. A magnificent db605 would sound a bit boring run at continuous revs in a sound studio.

[Dragon1-1]

14 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

Now realistically, even given the enclosed cockpit, headphones, and leather cap with ear flaps, that noise would likely be twice as loud (Although the higher, more sensitive frequencies, would be heavily attenuated, allowing one to hear the radio) in an actual cockpit.

Do note that the lower frequencies in those props are less heard than felt (bass shakers really do make everything better), and higher frequencies would be muffled by the cap. I think the hearing loss issues were more from being around a lot of those airplanes while outside the cockpit, rather than anything happening in flight. Our headphones, even good ones, can't replicate the full dynamic range of our hearing, but they can do better than we're currently doing.

 

Magnitude 7, who make US warbirds for MSFS, had recently published a detailed writeup on what they do to make them sound like the real thing. We could use some of that in Il-2. I recently bought the Mossie in DCS, and the sound is properly loud, maybe not deafening, but it definitely dominates the lower frequencies. In WEP, it's a proper roar, and even when idling, it's still punchy. I don't have BoN at the moment, but the Spit sounds nothing like that. Likewise the P-51D, which I can compare, and the Il-2 sound is just wimpy compared to DCS, which even has the instrument panel shake a bit at low RPM.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[dbuile]

17 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

Take this recording of a Merlin engine:

Very fun video, everyone getting a kick outta the blowback!

 

Anyways, the original poster's criticism is not about decibels.   

 

Is it only the YAK that people don't like, and only in certain circumstances?  I recall hearing the in-game Yak fly-by sound (default keystroke F3?), and it was extremely disappointing.   I haven't listened to the cockpit of F11 external view.

 

However, I'm generally satisfied with some engine sounds, for example, the 109 E and Ju 52 (haven't played others recently).  I feel they communicate enough characteristics for moderate suspension of disbelief.

 

 

[dbuile]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

the sound is properly loud, maybe not deafening, but it definitely dominates the lower frequencies.

I wouldn't need actual volume or over-compensated bass response for something to sound believable.  The Klimov video posted by oc2209, at very comfortable headphone volumes and not much bass at all, leaves no doubt how loud that thing was in person.   

 

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

instrument panel shake

Is that a gimmick, though? (I literally don't know if panels shook like that).  That's partially my point about bass response:  I wouldn't want a sound designer to falsely boost the bass because it makes up for lack of credibility in the rest of the sound profile.   

Edited January 9, 2023 by dbuile

[BlitzPig_EL]

Ever met anyone that flew B25s in WW2?  Most of them have serious hearing loss.  Having flown in one myself I can tell you that without modern ear protection the spl onboard at cruise power was painful. And it sounds nothing like the aircraft sounds from the outside.

Viewed from the tarmac, the B25 makes that wonderful radial engine sound that we all know and love.

From inside it's like someone is spraying the fuselage with large ball bearings out of a fire hose.  I sure don't want to listen to that racket for hours on end when I'm flying the sim.

 

IMHO, the most accurate external sounding plane in the sim is the A20..