Pimax Crystal Roadshow Event Berlin +Through-the-lens video!

[Broadway]

On MRTV Patreon feed initial impression on recent headset are good especially clarity and colours , he has only run it on a gaming laptop as he is travelling, but some of the initial issues seems to be resolved, although FOV still looks lower than pimax 1st claimed and still (via laptop) did not power the HMD (needed battery) . I m also little concerned by delays, and lack of other reviews . As time passes by gives a chance for others to announce HMDs, i would like an upgrade in 2023, so continue to review the options

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

MRTV has evaluated a later prototype, approx 12 March.

Sabastian has done a decent job of identifying the good and the bad IMO
 

 

[Guest]

Thanks Steve. Sounding very promising.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

MRTV went to the Pimax HQ in China to demo the Crystal.

 

[Guest]

Keeps getting better. It will certainly be interesting to learn how it performs on a 3080Ti, in a flight sim. I'm not sure MS Simulator would be representative though, that thing is (or was) an unoptimized hog.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I think if  Pimax can work with MSFS foveated rendering it would might be ok with card like 3080ti , otherwise 4080 or 90.

[Youtch]

Any chance that IL2 might support foveated rendering?

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:14 PM, Youtch said:

Any chance that IL2 might support foveated rendering?

Yes, there is a chance in near future. Mbucchia, OpenXR Toolkit creator asked for small change in game code; he needs information when is rendered left, and when right eye. When he gets it, he can adopt OpenXR toolkit in a short time. I forwardet this info + links to IL-2 team, and they said thanks for value info. That will be for OpenXR only, but maybe somebody can later copy solution to Fholgers OpenVR_FSR tool too.

We wait for now

 

[Guest]

Email update from Pimax, they say if you pre-order before June you'll get the DMAS headphones included. So, June is the earliest we can expect to get the unit. Calculate the usual delays and maybe before xmas. Lol. Price?

"Purchase before June to get free DMAS headphones. The Pimax Crystal starts from $1599. Submit a (refundable) pre-order to be the first on the list when Crystal ships."

Edited March 29, 2023 by Hetzer-JG51

[Dagwoodyt]

not wanting to leave my CC# with those folks ?

[blitze]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:23 PM, TCW_Brzi_Joe said:

Yes, there is a chance in near future. Mbucchia, OpenXR Toolkit creator asked for small change in game code; he needs information when is rendered left, and when right eye. When he gets it, he can adopt OpenXR toolkit in a short time. I forwardet this info + links to IL-2 team, and they said thanks for value info. That will be for OpenXR only, but maybe somebody can later copy solution to Fholgers OpenVR_FSR tool too.

We wait for now

 

FFR - crash happy atm  in Il2 but an alternative that works great is OpenVR FSR.  With eye tracking FSR would be the better option with the Crystal but that is if  the lenses are good from edge to edge (which is probably why they have gone smaller FOV for the Crystal).  On the flip side, Wide FOV like on the 8K-X, cover the peripheral vision nicely and sharpness on the edges of peripheral is not as important.

 

Pimax quality with the 8K-X for me was a big step up on the 8K which  only had issues with the plastic case skin.  The optics and screen were fine and still working well.  Just crappy plastics to start with.

 

Would like a panel update to the 8K-X and maybe eye tracking but inside out tracking - not as good as Base Stations and the rest - not interested.  Maybe down the track, Wide FOV VR like wrap around sports glasses would be nice before we migrate to  Holo Decks.?

[Varibraun]

More flight sim reviews are starting to hit Youtube.  TLDR, he had to make some adjustments from the stock settings over the past 5 days to get decent performance, but now he seems to like it a lot - maybe more that his Varjo Aero for the larger FOV (he has both a DCS and direct Aero comparison video coming over the next few days):

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Varibraun

[Broadway]

i ve been following some of the chat on the Pimax and MRTV Discord, and eagerly awaiting some flight sim reviews , i ve seen one very brief IL2 (FC) video , but it was not much use , the video posted above  is the latest of 3 focussed on MSFS , and it seems after some initial FPS issues to be looking quite good , albeit  unless you have  a 4090 you might struggle (in MSFS) 

 

many of these mentioned in video , but to summarise what i ve seen 

 

- price point , high , but less than Aero 

- power management , needs a quirky and non ideal set up where battery drains even when tethered to PC  , but probably workable if 4+hours

- clarity , exceptional , colours very good , blacks excellent

- very tough on FPS  but that is the trade off for the visuals ,  will need foveated rendering / 4090 to make the most of it (will IL2 ever support foveated rendering?)  

- poor FOV against what was advertised initially , but still quite reasonable vs G2 , Aero , and even similar to index.  Probably good enough unless you are wedded to super wide FOV 

- promise  of a "wider FOV lens"  , presumably to eek out a bit more horizontally , as VFOV is quite good , i m hoping they get to 115 (from measured 102-104) degrees or better and include as standard. Annoying they are trying to charge extra to give an improved FOV that doesn't meet the inital spec!   

- sound and mic on a par with best in class headsets such as G2 / Index providing you get the DMAS option. Recently  (ie last 48 hours) upgraded via new firmware

- build quality , not at Aero levels 

- software interface , good 

- inside out tracking , good (enough for flight Sims) 

- not working yet

        - eye tracking , but i really believe  this will be working very soon , although no point if  IL2 doesn't support other than auto IPD adjust

        - stadalone mode , dont care for this but was advertised in specs , i expect this not be working and stable for some time 
 

- availability - according to Pimax was ready to ship in January (that is 2023!) . On the plus side the beta testers got there s within 1 week of shipping from China , so it could be very soon, but realistically 3+ months from now for new orders  , probably less  (4-6 weeks?)  for early adopters 

 

 

it may be worth a few of us asking the VR flight Sim guy via the video above to do an IL2 review , he will in time , but to get it on his radar, DCS review due out very soon , probably next 24 hours 

Edited April 30, 2023 by =DW=_Broadway

[dburne]

15 minutes ago, =DW=_Broadway said:

 

it may be worth a few of us asking the VR flight Sim guy via the video above to do an IL2 review , he will in time , but to get it on his radar, DCS review due out very soon , probably next 24 hours 

 

I would probably not put too much stock into what that guy says. Several months ago when Varjo implemented their first run at Motion Reprojection Varjo had him over to their facility and he tested it and did a video proclaiming it to be the very best implementation of Motion Reprojection he had ever seen. 

I enabled it and imho it  was the worst implementation of Motion Reprojection I had ever seen. Varjo has since improved on it but it is still not as good as say Oculus ASW.

 

I would wait on reviews from everyday consumers rather than these well known youtubers.

Edited April 30, 2023 by dburne

[Varibraun]

 

On 4/30/2023 at 8:45 AM, dburne said:

I would wait on reviews from everyday consumers rather than these well known youtubers.

 

Interestingly about that point Don, all is certainly not roses even for these content creators with their beta Crystal.  I just watched the Pimax Crystal portion of this long live stream with Youtubers Sebastian, Steve and Tetiana, and I think a lot of us "older" simmers are a lot more like Tetiana than Steve when it comes to getting up and running (I know I am).  There is a good discussion of the problems she had, and continues to have, starting at the 2:00 hour mark (video should start there at the link below).   

 

My takeaways from their discussion: At least right now it likely needs a 4090 for Sims, it is finicky on whether it is going to work at all, it won't work with a 3090ti out of the box (may need some type of adapter), it caused a lot of frustration in setup even for the tech savvy, taking them contacting China on multiple occasions to get running.  They all admit they are going to get a lot better support for these types of issues than the average consumer.  I will probably still order one when my reservation number comes up, but I am now even more forewarned (especially compared to my try with the Aero which was pretty much plug and play for me). 

 

Edit: Updated with the strikeouts above based on their later videos and an updated firmware.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Varibraun
Updated for later YT reviews

[Broadway]

Yes I also saw the video and the set up issues on the 3090.  I am more of a glass 1/2 full rather than empty on tithe crystal however it is only 1/2 full and needs to be brimming to get a wholehearted endorsement.  
 

I will probably go for it ( pre ordered on day 2) but am keeping a keen eye on all developments. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

 

Nothing much to learn, he apparently doesn't understand the mechanics of how to set resolution. 

[Varibraun]

20 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Nothing much to learn, he apparently doesn't understand the mechanics of how to set resolution. 

 

The good news is that at least he has been able to get the Crystal set up and running for GBs.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Varibraun

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

16 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

 

Nothing much to learn, he apparently doesn't understand the mechanics of how to set resolution. 

Seems like a nice fella and avid flight simmer, but reviewing the actual tech is not his strong suit. Settings are all kinds of wrong.

[Dagwoodyt]

I don't know how the Crystal can be considered other than prototype at this stage in its' development. The reviewers seem to simply ignore that wireless mode has yet to be implemented even though it makes the onboard battery obligatory.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I don't know how the Crystal can be considered other than prototype at this stage in its' development. The reviewers seem to simply ignore that wireless mode has yet to be implemented even though it makes the onboard battery obligatory.

I don't think the battery thing is due to wifi, it's the makers of the snapdragon processor that have made it a requirement from what I've read. Maybe it's too 'fragile' for live power. lol.

[Varibraun]

On 4/30/2023 at 10:31 AM, =DW=_Broadway said:

I will probably go for it ( pre ordered on day 2) but am keeping a keen eye on all developments. 

 

Please keep us up to date on when you get your invitation to complete your order and what you decide since you will be at the head of the line.

[Broadway]

, was very tempted by the Aero on release (coming from a G2), but had an AMD card  (6900XT) , so card upgrade plus Aero was a step too far at the time  .  Have upgraded to a 4090 a few months back , so ready to move on from the G2, was kind of  hoping Varjo or Valve announced something new , but no sign of anything. Crystal could be a big gamble , but the G2 has a few cracks and breaks so needs to be replaced , i had a lot of great hours in it, but need to move on 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Samsung, Panasonic, and Apple sets just around the bend, good chance one of them might be worth waiting a bit.

[Dagwoodyt]

9 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Samsung, Panasonic, and Apple sets just around the bend, good chance one of them might be worth waiting a bit.

I would not count on any of those companies releasing a flight sim relevant HMD in the near future. The Valve "Deckard" seems more likely a reflection of Youtubers' need to create VR content than a product that's about to enter the market.

[Varibraun]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I would not count on any of those companies releasing a flight sim relevant HMD in the near future. The Valve "Deckard" seems more likely a reflection of Youtubers' need to create VR content than a product that's about to enter the market.

 

Yes, that's always the dilemma with waiting.  I actually had an Aero in my hands this time last year and ultimately decided to return it because I didn't feel my 2080ti system was running it well enough when it didn't have reprojection at that time.  I thought I would wait a bit for the 4090 (which I got last year) and the mythical Deckard, which I thought would have a better FoV and be less expensive than the Aero plus base stations.  Now here I am a year later (and worse, a year older...lol) without any announcement from Valve. 

 

As I look back, I could have been enjoying the Aero's clarity during that entire time (and for over 6 months with the boost of the 4090), and this is why unless something else announces before my reservation comes up with the Crystal, I will probably give it a go.  Like the old saying, the future "best" is the enemy of the present "good."  I am going to hope that Pimax has gotten their act somewhat together and the Crystal is the next "good" for sims. (I also hear you about the "prototype," but for my purposes, I don't care when/if the standalone portion works if it actually brings Aero clarity with a larger FoV and better colors the YT reviewers are reporting).

 

On that note, here is what "Finn does Sim" from the IL2 YT video above responded to my YT question to him about getting his Crystal up and running:

 

I did not have trouble with setup. However, many of us had trouble with the HMD losing connection to the computer. It was tricky to re-connect, but the Pimax team seems to have solved the issue with the latest Pimax play and crystal firmware updates. The crystal is pretty much plug and play now. It’s miles easier to get running than was the 8KX. I love my 8KX, but it was very much an enthusiast’s HMD, at least for the first year of release. The Pimax client seems to be a more robust interface to me.

[Broadway]

Apparently now shipping albeit in very small numbers , 1st batch of 50 I believe. I’m guessing I’m in the 1st 1000 , aa pre ordered Day 2. 

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, =DW=_Broadway said:

Apparently now shipping albeit in very small numbers , 1st batch of 50 I believe. I’m guessing I’m in the 1st 1000 , aa pre ordered Day 2. 

 

I am pretty sure they are always shipping in small numbers rather than a larger production run.  They run x amount of headsets, wait for feedback, make changes, run another small amount of headsets, wait for feedback,  make changes - rinse and repeat. At least seems like how they have always done it.

 

[-332FG-Gordon200]

3 hours ago, =DW=_Broadway said:

Apparently now shipping albeit in very small numbers , 1st batch of 50 I believe. I’m guessing I’m in the 1st 1000 , aa pre ordered Day 2. 

Your order number shows date of order and your position in line for release. My order is W033720221102 meaning the order was placed Nov 2, 2022 and I am 337th in line.

[Broadway]

Understood. , I’m 134 on day 2 , so at least 500 in front of me , on preorder , assuming 80% conversion then 400 in front , but I reckon on 1000 in front ie 1000 or so orders on day1 

[kissTheSky]

FYI. Some thoughts from a beta tester at another forum. Fairly recent (April 28th) post. 

 

Quote

As some of you may know, I’m one of the 15 beta testers of the Crystal in the West (China has a team of 15 as well). I’ve had the Crystal for about a week and a half, and as 99% of my PCVR gaming is iRacing, I’ve had some time to put it through its paces. 

Before I start, a quick note about what I can say. I signed an NDA and agreed that while I can talk about the Crystal, any video has to be approved by Pimax (obviously not an issue here), and any negatives have to be brought to Pimax’s engineering team to allow them time to address the issue first. I am happy to say in this regard that I and the team haven’t run across anything that’s a deal-breaker, and Pimax is being very responsive with problems we run across. As with any piece of cutting edge tech there will be problems, and since Pimax has been very responsive with problems we’ve encountered, I’m ok talking about them here. 

As for me, I’ve owned and many headsets: Vive, Vive Pro, Samsung Odyssey, Quest, Quest 2, Quest Pro, Index, Pimax 5k+, 8k+, 8kx (my current daily driver), and the Varjo Aero. I’m sure I’m leaving a couple of HMDs out. 

Anyway, the display: this is why the Crystal exists, and simply stated, the display is the best I’ve ever seen. It has QLED panels, so the colors are nicely saturated and the local dimming provides deep dark blacks. Not OLED black, but really really close. There’s no screen door effect whatsoever, and the image is so sharp I’d put it in monitor territory. The resolution of the panels is 2880x2880, and I’m running it at 4052 vertical as reported by SteamVR, and the display is stunning-better than even the Aero. For context, my PC has an i9-13900k not overclocked, a 4090 FE, and 32 GB of DDR5 RAM, and I’m running the Crystal at 90 FPS with no dropped frames. Granted, I haven’t run any of the new graphics-intensive tracks yet, but if they get to be too much, I’ve tried the Crystal cranked down to 2400 vertical resolution and it still looks great. 

FOV: Pimax claims about 130 degrees diagonally, but none of the testers have been able to get that. We are all getting about 102-103 degrees horizontally and about the same vertically. It’s definitely bigger than the Aero and most other headsets, but the numbers aren’t what Pimax has claimed. This is a pretty big drawback for me personally, as I run the 8kx at “Normal” FOV, which is about 140 degrees horizontally. I’m not sure where I fall on the FOV vs. Resolution debate. If I decide not to keep the Crystal it will be because of this. I mean, the Crystal FOV is still better than (or at least equal to) any other consumer headset other than the 8kx, but I’m still trying to decide for myself if the higher resolution and sharper display is better for me than the wide FOV of the 8kx. 

There just isn’t really anything bad to say about the display on the Crystal. There has been some talk about permanence/smearing issues, but there was a firmware update yesterday that supposed to have addressed that. But I never noticed a problem to begin with. 

The eye tracking and auto IPD adjustment hasn’t been enabled yet, so I can’t speak to that. 

I do want to mention the lenses. Ours came with 35 PPD lenses, which are interchangeable with 45 PPD lenses at a slightly smaller FOV. I wouldn’t want any smaller FOV, and the 35s are super sharp to begin with, so I don’t really know the use case for the 45s. The lenses we received are polycarbonate, not the final glass versions. Pimax said that tooling for the glass lenses are very expensive, and they wanted our feedback before committing to the expense of the glass lenses (glass will be in the shipping version), which is fair. A few of the testers noticed some warping, and removing and reseating the lenses helped some, but the latest firmware included new distortion profiles which have fixed the distortion. Even the plastic lenses look great, and I can’t wait for the glass lenses to ship.

Also on the lenses, they are aspheric as opposed to fresnel, so there is no glare, and virtually no blooming from the local dimming. 

Final thoughts on the display: We’ve noticed some chromatic aberration at the edges (for me, it’s pretty clear on the text in the black boxes), but the firmware helped some. Also, since we only have the plastic lenses right now, I’m withholding judgement until the glass lenses arrive. 

As to the audio, the Crystal has 2 options: MAS and DMAS. The MAS is just plain bad, and if you order the Crystal, opt for the DMAS speakers. The design of the DMAS is floating, similar to the Index. Initially even the audio from the DMAS was horrible, with this weird phasing that was very obvious on the engine sounds, but the latest firmware fixed that and I would say now that the audio is plenty loud, but is very much mid-biased, with not nearly enough bass and highs. Pimax says they are working on EQ profiles and that will be fixed. 

As to comfort, it just doesn’t fit my head shape. The facial foam is too wide for my face resulting in some light bleed from the sides. Worse is that the back of the strap falls right on my occipital bone on the back of my head, and the whole thing kind of wobbles because it’s basically pinched on my forehead and the back of my head. Most of the testers are happy with the comfort, but one has already modded a Vive DAS to fit the Crystal, and I’ll definitely be doing that as well. That’s what I have on the 8kx, and it sounds great and is super comfortable for me. 

The microphone sounds really good. Or sounded really good. Since the update yesterday it pops pretty much constantly for me, but I have no doubt that will be fixed in a future firmware update. 

Miscellaneous thoughts: the Crystal has a battery on the back of the head strap that helps the weight distribution, but is basically just annoying from a simmer’s point of view. The battery lasts about 2 hours per charge, and is hot-swappable with the second battery that ships with the Crystal. Pimax says the battery is required for the XR2 chip that handles a lot of the Crystal’s functionality. Also, the Crystal doubles as a stand-alone headset, so the battery is required for that, obviously. Personally, I don’t like that it requires a battery, and the extra thickness of the head strap with the battery interferes with the seat in my rig, so I have to hold my head forward, which gets a little uncomfortable after a while. I don’t have this problem with the Vive DAS.

In conclusion, I think the Crystal will be the sim racer’s VR headset to beat when it releases. It has a stunning display, passable audio that I expect will get better when it ships to buyers. It’s not perfect, and Pimax made some choices that just aren’t ideal for simmers (the battery specifically). I think that is the only negative I’ve run across that can’t be addressed by a firmware upgrade, and Pimax is really listening to the beta testers and addressing our concerns. The Crystal will be a solid HMD when it ships, or that I’m sure.

 

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

FYI. Some thoughts from a beta tester at another forum. Fairly recent (April 28th) post. 

 

 

Ugh. That battery. I don’t know about you all, but once I strap in to fly, it’s rarely for less than a few hours. 
 

With the Quest Pro, I found a great usb-c hub that pumps close to 10amps to the QP link cable and keeps the headset charged indefinitely while I’m playing. I’m wondering if this solution would also work on the Crystal ?

[kissTheSky]

18 minutes ago, TCW_DirtyMike0330 said:

Ugh. That battery. I don’t know about you all, but once I strap in to fly, it’s rarely for less than a few hours. 
 

With the Quest Pro, I found a great usb-c hub that pumps close to 10amps to the QP link cable and keeps the headset charged indefinitely while I’m playing. I’m wondering if this solution would also work on the Crystal ?

Yeah, some missions has fly out-and-back air time of 1:20+. Add being in a furball of a situation into it and I can see 2+ mission times. Apparently the battery is “hot swappable”, whatever the heck they mean. As if I’ll set a timer and swap batteries as I’m on drop-tanks. 
 

For PiMax to tout their wide FOV and most of the beta testers seeing 102-103 degrees of FOV is a bit worrying though. 

[Charlo-VRde]

Agree about the above few posts, and we’ll also have to keep this post in mind for eventual CLoD VR: 

 

[Guest]

 

[Broadway]

Plenty of content now becoming available, for sure pimax have helped raise the bar for PCVR which is no bad thing , whether it is a good choice for IL2 only time will tell 

 

 

[Varibraun]

 

[Charlo-VRde]

Thanks for the above!  I also saw he posted this teaser video running IL-2 in his Pimax Crystal, getting 90 FPS with a 3090 and using OpenXr.

 

 

Edit on 5/9/23: He posted his full video, and his system specs are Intel I9900, 32gigs ram, Nvidia 3090. I'm now very tempted to upgrade my G2 to the Pimax Crystal.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Charlo-VR

[Dagwoodyt]

MRTV is pushing the Crystal really hard now. Six hours on a battery charge??

[Dagwoodyt]

Interesting vid! Admittedly I prefer doing it the easy way in an Index. I wish Valve would bring out a successor, but probably the price point would be so high as to limit sales.