Pimax Crystal Roadshow Event Berlin +Through-the-lens video!

[dburne]

11 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

I guess the same could be said for Varjo, and it turned out pretty good from what I have read. Nobody will know until they release and reviews come out...

 

Varjo was already successful in the business side of things for VR producing the top headsets for it that came not only with a hefty price but a subscription fee to the software as well. This was with their XR3 and VR3 Headsets. It was later on in the development of the Aero they became convinced by consumers they should enter the home entertainment industry with it especially for flight and racing sim enthusiasts. And yeah from what I understand it has exceeded their expectations. They certainly have had a bit of a learning curve in dealing with retail versus business customers but they are getting there. From what I have seen support has been phenomenal from them -- as it should be at that price level.

 

I hope Pimax is very successful with the Crystal same as I hope Varjo continues to be successful with the Aero and hopefully future consumer devices. It would be very good for native PC-VR enthusiasts  for both of them to be very successful. As far as Pimax I wish they could just focus on one thing at a time and see it through to completion before taking on new projects.

Edited November 28, 2022 by dburne

[Dagwoodyt]

13 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

I'm not a fanboy or have a HMD from either. I'm not saying anything good or bad about the product until it's released. It just has pretty good specs at the moment from what I have seen, and the preliminary review by SCG Fenris Wolf look promising. That would be a win for the VR community if true.

 

It would be improper to say anything either way until its either on your head, or somebody else's head that you trust a decent review from. You don't have to pay the $30.00 reservation fee..

Of course no one is obligated to reserve a Crystal, but consider how many $30.00 reservations it would take to equal the advertised price of a single headset. Surely Pimax isn't going to accumulate inventory based on the number of $30.00 reservations it gets. ?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[slikslik]

The small horizontal FOV with the Crystal can't be a good thing for flight and race sims. From the reviews etc. I've seen, it would appear that the FOV would be like looking at a light at the end of a tunnel.  That's worse than the binocular effect you get with a G2 like FOV.  I will wait for the 12K.  I can upgrade my 8kx to the 12K, but not the Crystal.  That alone is a good enough reason to wait for the 12K.  Gotta have a WIDE FOV for combat flight sims.

[simfan2015]

Pimax may have to ... hurry !... 

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dpvr-e4-announced-with-november-launch-aims-to-dominating-the-consumer-market-for-tethered-pc-vr-headsets-301687567.html

[Tomkin]

Nice Report!

 

But i miss something about the FOV. I Play some FS ans SIM Games with a 8KX, and most Important for the immersion ist the BIG FOV i can choose (my 5 cent).  I was Dissapointet whenn the VALVE INDEX came with 120°, but how looks 140° on the Crystal? Like Potaeto or small on the 8KX?

 

 

[slikslik]

The 140 degree FOV for the Crystal is vertical. The Crystal Horizontal FOV as I understand, is about 90 degrees.  A very small FOV compared to the 8kx.  Maybe SCG Fenris Wolf can chime in here with more accurate numbers etc.  

[dburne]

1 hour ago, slikslik said:

The 140 degree FOV for the Crystal is vertical. The Crystal Horizontal FOV as I understand, is about 90 degrees.  A very small FOV compared to the 8kx.  Maybe SCG Fenris Wolf can chime in here with more accurate numbers etc.  

 

From VR Compare:

Quote

Visible FoV

estimate 110° horizontal 120° diagonal Wide lens: 125° horizontal, 140° diagonal

 

https://vr-compare.com/headset/pimaxcrystalqled

 

Disclaimer - No idea how accurate that might be. I myself would probably not trust the numbers Pimax gives but wait and see what noted users report.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by dburne

[Broadway]

reports from Roadshow in Netherlands suggests the issue with focal length, lens optics has been resolved , at least as a quick fix with a more nuanced permeant fix being applied to next small run batch of headsets.  Claiming Aero (or better?) like optics, wider horizontal FOV.

Will wait for further structured review over coming weeks, however if this is the case it seems little to hold this back apart from Pimax customer service....(maybe this is also fixed?) 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, =DW=_Broadway said:

reports from Roadshow in Netherlands suggests the issue with focal length, lens optics has been resolved , at least as a quick fix with a more nuanced permeant fix being applied to next small run batch of headsets.  Claiming Aero (or better?) like optics, wider horizontal FOV.

Will wait for further structured review over coming weeks, however if this is the case it seems little to hold this back apart from Pimax customer service....(maybe this is also fixed?) 

 

 I would go so far to say based on their history, both customer service and headset quality and software are a mixed bag. It would be nice to see that improve in both areas to be more consistent on the good side. I still say if perhaps they focused all their attention on only one new device at a time they might fare better, but who knows.

[dburne]

 

[=IRFC=Jorri]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:29 PM, =DW=_Broadway said:

reports from Roadshow in Netherlands suggests the issue with focal length, lens optics has been resolved , at least as a quick fix with a more nuanced permeant fix being applied to next small run batch of headsets.

i got to try it twice and while it does seem they resolved this issue, this did introduce a new issue where the anchor point for your eyes is a bit misaligned so if you turn your head everything shifts slightly, and they're working on fixing that now. 
 

i come from a Rift S, never really tried anything newer, so the Crystal blew me away. It seems like it has a complete featureset that will hopefully lead in a whole new generation of headsets with similar qualities. 
 

I didn't get to try the controllers. It didn't get to see the foveated rendering. They still don't have the right cable meaning it's still drawing power from the battery even when tethered. 

 

Also, one downside I did see is the stereo overlap, it didn't seem that great...but not atrocious either. 
 

the local dimming is very impressive, I tried a night flight where they turned it off and on again. Wow. 
 

Edited December 3, 2022 by hq_Jorri

[chiliwili69]

In that video Brad is quite right.

Pimax should focus in just one thing at a time. This will improve their quality and time to market.

The exchangeable lenses is a non-sense. The resolution is already quite good, so nobody will sacrify the FOV with the other lenses.

Also, the Pimax Portal dream is like a Wii-U o Switch but just 10-5 year later. And the VR option is something already tested and abandoned by larger companies like Samsung, Google and others.

IMHO, they could just focus on producing the perfet device for PCVR with an option for wireless.

Since the main market of Pimax is for PC they should just go there straight away by doing:

 

- Resolution like current Crystal

- inside-out tracking like Crystal

- DP cable like Crystal

- Better horizontal FOV than current Crystal, but not huge. An HFOV of 120-130 with a VFOV of 110 is more than enough.

- Pancake fixed lenses and more compact and light device (like Pico4)

- good audio

- Optional controllers

- Optional batteries and wifi module for wireless (game run on PC).

 

Then put a good price and good quality control and they will sell tons of that.

Edited December 3, 2022 by chiliwili69

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

In that video Brad is quite right.

Pimax should focus in just one thing at a time. This will improve their quality and time to market.

The exchangeable lenses is a non-sense. The resolution is already quite good, so nobody will sacrify the FOV with the other lenses.

Also, the Pimax Portal dream is like a Wii-U o Switch but just 10-5 year later. And the VR option is something already tested and abandoned by larger companies like Samsung, Google and others.

IMHO, they could just focus on producing the perfet device for PCVR with an option for wireless.

Since the main market of Pimax is for PC they should just go there straight away by doing:

 

- Resolution like current Crystal

- inside-out tracking like Crystal

- DP cable like Crystal

- Better horizontal FOV than current Crystal, but not huge. An HFOV of 120-130 with a VFOV of 110 is more than enough.

- Pancake fixed lenses and more compact and light device (like Pico4)

- good audio

- Optional controllers

- Optional batteries and wifi module for wireless (game run on PC).

 

Then put a good price and good quality control and they will sell tons of that.

Maybe corporate culture is evolving ?

[simfan2015]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Since the main market of Pimax is for PC

PC VR's biggest problem ... it may be too late already and in fact be a dead end.

PC VR is not picking up speed (going by a.o. Steam stats).

To me the new Crystal is everything a *future* VR headset should not ... rather expensive, too big and complex.

Replace lenses to ... limit you FOV ! That must be a "Chinese" way of thinking ?

I can understand why people here may love these types of headsets/produces, but as a mass-market product all this looks DOA to me.      

Edited December 3, 2022 by simfan2015

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Brad basically confirms what I wrote on the Crystal. He's mainly looking at it from the perspective of roomscale.

 

But to complain about additional optional features - the 42PPD lenses - I don't know man. They might make sense for those that want ultra-high res. Who knows. I mentioned the things that must get fixed before release - ghosting and controllers. I liked that they were pro-actively pointing out what is being worked on.

 

The Crystal has much better visuals than the Aero with the 35PPD. Same PPD as the Aero, the HDR / local backlight dimming gives incredible blacks, the Qdot layer really shows great colors, all while offering a larger FOV. No distortions. The lenses of all 4 Crystals that I tested were aligned correctly (European tour).

 

It's a clear upgrade from the Aero - if you get the SteamVR faceplate and already have LH stations, Index Controllers. Without doubt.

 

 

I think it is proper to mention the issues that need to get fixed yet - but unnecessary to make negative headlines out of these before release. You don't judge games based on their alphas, unless they sell early-access - which Pimax does not this time. Let's be fair here, there is just a queue, no big cash flying yet. Also for Brad, he has enough reach and interlinked platforms to land in the algo quite often. ? 

 

To those that pre-order anything, be it games, headsets, mobiles, soup they never tasted, without any right-to-return - they deserve whatever they get. ?

 

 

P.S. Pimax has a reservation queue up, fully refundable 30 €. No pre-orders at the moment.

Edited December 4, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Dagwoodyt]

Why do a road show when neither product is fully operational unless the company is strapped? Great if they can come up with complete and stable products, but their road show so far suggests that the company is unable to change its' business habits. Kickstarter? ?

[chiliwili69]

12 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

so you can lower the FOV to Index levels and get 42PPD

 

So then, do think that Crystal with 35ppd lenses has a larger FOV than Index?

 

I found mixed opinions about the FOV of the Crystal with the 35ppd (the ones showed in the roadshow, so it was the largest FOV of Crystal). The MRTV guy say like Index (but this guys tends to be biassed),  other people in the first videos said like G2/Q2 , you said better than Aero (which is something almost all devices has), so I really don´t know what to think. No HMDtest data given, no OpenVR Rendered FOV given yet, ...

But it will be something that we should know in a couple of months.

 

BTW, did you pre-order then?

 

If Pimax made a perfect headset for simmers, it could be done it even better with the items I was indicating above.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

 

BTW, did you pre-order then?

 

Seems like the terms "reservation" and "pre-order" are being used interchangably. I think everyone should be careful not to conflate these terms.

[DD_Arthur]

Any sign of anyrhing coming to market yet that is remotely sunglasses size? 

 

As in not having to strap on what amounts to a piece of scuba gear to ones head?

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Any sign of anyrhing coming to market yet that is remotely sunglasses size? 

 

As in not having to strap on what amounts to a piece of scuba gear to ones head?

 

Not for VR at least, for a few years I would think. IMHO that is biggest obstacle to larger adoption of the tech.

Meta has been working with Ray Ban on glassed tech for the AR side of things. With some recent cut backs at Meta remains to be seen where that goes.

Edited December 4, 2022 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

The Pico 4 is much lighter than anything else at the moment. Personally I am waiting for Cyberpunk-ish eyeball replacements.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

I have no perceived difference from g2 to pico4, it could be made even lighter with some aftermarket DIY (or upgrades)...

 

https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=1qnvNfJKq&h2=HdfjN_0UlPY&h3=mLbW9G7f4&h4=H0JXNCr3u4&h5=eI13V4rx1

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:35 PM, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

I have no perceived difference from g2 to pico4, it could be made even lighter with some aftermarket DIY (or upgrades)...

 

https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=1qnvNfJKq&h2=HdfjN_0UlPY&h3=mLbW9G7f4&h4=H0JXNCr3u4&h5=eI13V4rx1

 

It's probably good intention, but the website is pretty much not really useful. It ignores most important features, like clarity, or balance. The latter is why the Pico sits much lighter on the head than the G2 or any other previous headsets.

Edited December 7, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:38 AM, DD_Arthur said:

Any sign of anyrhing coming to market yet that is remotely sunglasses size? 

 

As in not having to strap on what amounts to a piece of scuba gear to ones head?

The MeganeX (if it ever actually gets released) is the most interesting one that I have seen to-date.
They do however seem to be taking forever to actually get it to market.

https://en.shiftall.net/products/meganex

[simfan2015]

The megane X is everything I could wish for indeed, if it ever become a product like this (without becoming bigger and heavier). OLED is still the holy grail. 

 

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

7 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

The megane X is everything I could wish for indeed, if it ever become a product like this (without becoming bigger and heavier). OLED is still the holy grail. 

 

Think that the FOV is going to be on the smaller side but the rest of it sounds interesting.

Will be interested in reviews when finally released.

[simfan2015]

https://mixed-news.com/en/sony-previews-next-gen-displays-for-vr-and-ar/

 

... Article about next generation vr headset micro oled technology. 

[chiliwili69]

https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-crystal-hands-on-review-ces-2023-blur/

 

Ben said the FOV is good, although he found another issue.

[dburne]

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I'm owner of G2 and use to be owner of  O+, never use goggles to play il2 (just testing) because I'm not found it in the same level as   track IR and high end monitor in multiplayer competitive scenarios. Now I'm looking for new generation  goggles to see how it will change my opinion.  Vario was an option but when I found about  pimax cristal, it checked all boxes. If that comes to realizations as shown and promised,  I would prefer buy it for PCVR and mobile VR.  Same as PSVR 2 for console AAA games which pc lack now.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I'm owner of G2 and use to be owner of  O+, never use goggles to play il2 (just testing) because I'm not found it in the same level as   track IR and high end monitor in multiplayer competitive scenarios. Now I'm looking for new generation  goggles to see how it will change my opinion.  Vario was an option but when I found about  pimax cristal, it checked all boxes. If that comes to realizations as shown and promised,  I would prefer buy it for PCVR and mobile VR.  Same as PSVR 2 for console AAA games which pc lack now.

 

Pimax announced the Crystal the same week that Varjo announced the Aero. Aero has been out over a year now.

You might be in for a wait still...

 

IMHO VR will never get to the same level of clarity overall that one can get on a high res monitor.  I personally love VR and would never go back to monitor myself, but those that are all about that high resolution may struggle some with VR.

Edited February 7, 2023 by dburne

[Broadway]

Crystal headsets now reaching independent reviewers , with no NDAs in place, it will surely miss out on key features announced at launch, but as a tethered PCVR will it out perform the Varjo ?   We will know more very soon 

[Dagwoodyt]

"independent" as in MRTV?

[Broadway]

Mrtv is one, flightsimguy another, both and other YouTubers need to be critically reviewed, as they make money from posting, another option is to wait and see what real world users say in 3 months  

[Dagwoodyt]

I trust user reports in this forum.

[Broadway]

So do i but then someone needs to buy one (how do they decide?) , and review, and ideally more than one to get a more objective view, so the early YouTube  reviews IMO are important 

[SR-F_Winger]

I reserved one and when asking ppimax customer support they told me current plan is to release before april.
I hope they make it.

[hsthhsth]

Pimax has sent 15 units to Chinese customers first to get reviews. After that they will sent 15 to other customers. Pimax expects to improve by their comments.

 

 

Some more info:

 

[Guest]

I've pre-ordered one. With luck it might be here before xmas. Lol.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

fingers crossed for fast deliveries ^^

 

looking forwards to some real life impressions and reviews in near future