Me109 wing stall

[Chris65]

Howdy folks:  I did a forum search, and a UT search (watch SSS on how to fly 109) but could not come up with an answer for this but I am sure it has been asked before; flying the 109f4 and every time I go to conduct a split S I end up with a wing stall and go into a spin, luckily I easily recover from the spin but is there something with the 109 I am missing, does it not like the roll at about 400kph+ into a split S?  If so, then what is the best maneuver for the 109 when a yak or mig is behind you, say .7 distance at about 2k.

 

The split S is my go to  defensive move in any plane I fly, maybe it is time to learn something better?

 

Thanks for the help in advance.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Slit S would is good defensive manuver if enemy has height advantage and is  coming down but  not that fast for bounce. 

[=420=Syphen]

9 hours ago, Chris65 said:

Howdy folks:  I did a forum search, and a UT search (watch SSS on how to fly 109) but could not come up with an answer for this but I am sure it has been asked before; flying the 109f4 and every time I go to conduct a split S I end up with a wing stall and go into a spin, luckily I easily recover from the spin but is there something with the 109 I am missing, does it not like the roll at about 400kph+ into a split S?  If so, then what is the best maneuver for the 109 when a yak or mig is behind you, say .7 distance at about 2k.

 

The split S is my go to  defensive move in any plane I fly, maybe it is time to learn something better?

 

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

Without seeing a video of what you're actually doing, it's a hard say. You should be able to perform a split S without issue - something is being done incorrectly. 

 

And what the best maneuver for your scenario depends heavily on the energy states of both aircraft. There is not one answer.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Try using no aileron input at those speeds, kick in full rudder than gently pull back the stick controlling the roll, you won't loose as much speed as you would using straight aileron, little to no drag induced on the wings.  Plus you get added bonus of being harder to track with a guns solution, since your also slipping pretty good in a partial barrel roll.

[Chris65]

I have the fights recorded, will see if I can get a clip. 

 

Nice tip ref the rudder, will give it a go and report back.

[oc2209]

19 hours ago, Chris65 said:

flying the 109f4 and every time I go to conduct a split S I end up with a wing stall and go into a spin

 

The easy explanation is that you're simply pulling too hard. Also possible that you're entering the dive at an awkward angle, compounded by pulling too hard.

 

Here's how I do them:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Kind of hard to explain, since it's mostly intuitive. I would say to allow the plane to 'settle' for a moment, a fraction of a second, between the roll and pulling to enter the dive. While you can roll directly into a dive, it can cause stability issues.

[Chris65]

Big difference between how we do them, you roll inverted and pull, I roll and pull at the same time like I do in the Hurricane, I guess that is the problem?; I will load up a touring flight and try it out and record it.

 

Thanks for taking the time to do that, greatly appreciated.

 

***Just found BFM #11 and you are doing it correctly, I am doing it wrong and thus the stall, obviously too much of an angle on the wing***

Edited November 20, 2022 by Chris65

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, Chris65 said:

Big difference between how we do them, you roll inverted and pull, I roll and pull at the same time like I do in the Hurricane, I guess that is the problem?

 

Oh boy, yes, that's the problem.

 

Hurricane is so much easier to fly than a 109, because of the latter's high wing loading and slats. Hurricane's more like a biplane in terms of handling. Using the 109 is intuitive for me, but only because it was one of the first detailed sim planes I ever flew. It still gives me some trouble after all these years, however. 

 

Glad you sorted it out!

[firdimigdi]

8 hours ago, Chris65 said:

Big difference between how we do them, you roll inverted and pull, I roll and pull at the same time like I do in the Hurricane, I guess that is the problem?

 

You can also opt for a nose up, pitch down to unload the wings and then roll - takes some coordination but it allows for much quicker roll rate, especially with planes like the Hurricane.

[RossMarBow]

yea going nose down resulting in less than 1 g will help you roll quicker as the wings have less load on them

but you have to fly by feel - when the plane starts shuddering and making funny noises as your pulling your getting closer to stall

you can't just abuse the stick - fly with the plane

Edited November 21, 2022 by RossMarBow