Can this be cleared up please...

[oc2209]

18 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I think some of you are reading too much into Daniel’s words at this juncture. I took “revolutionary’ to mean simply not just another Yaks or Spitfires vs 109’s release…but rather something completely different. Not some drastic, never before seen functionality in the game engine.

 

Just re-quoting this again, but now with an additional quote from Daniel.

 

From minute 17:45 or so:

 

"We plan a massive, really massive development using a new approach to airplane damage model, which would be based on the greater level of detail of aircraft systems and on the aircraft airframes [...]"

 

So... a 'new approach,' but using the same old clunky engine that seemingly precluded a very complex damage model for all these years.

 

If they were going to revamp the entire damage model system, why would they bother implementing the DVD system? My answer would be that DVD is as far as they could go with the old system, while the new one will have the 'new approach' to damage modelling.

[Gambit21]

Could be my friend...will be interesting to see what shakes out..

 

[oc2209]

2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Could be my friend...will be interesting to see what shakes out..

 

 

For the record, I'm not gloom and dooming just by saying I think they're making a new engine. I would be somewhat excited about it. I need to buy a new PC anyway, so any excuse will do.

 

I wouldn't mind if they kept on using the old engine, and I won't mind if they move on to another.

 

Change is, to state the obvious, unavoidable at some point.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I'm glad that they gonna set bar even higher with the  new game (if this is true) this is good for us customers, other will have to fallow to not stay behind. Anyway we need game with new level of immersion. Since ROF nothing true revolutionary show up yet. They have dream to realize let's support.

Edited November 13, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I've read every post in this thread (?) and what's next is now perfectly clear.  Just wish the devs would fill in the blanks.

[oc2209]

24 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I've read every post in this thread (?) and what's next is now perfectly clear.  Just wish the devs would fill in the blanks.

 

My guess: they don't know what they can do yet, and as a result don't want to commit to something until it's all sorted.

 

Specifically, I mean they haven't been able to finalize things, probably related to the full plane lineup. Maybe the issue is partly research-oriented, partly a matter of integrating new planes into the new (presumably more elaborate) modelling systems.

 

If we are, indeed, dealing with a new game engine, then it stands to reason that prep time for the first installment would take longer than a usual DLC from last gen IL-2.

[ST_Catchov]

So the way I read it is they're gonna leave the WWII modules on the old engine with limited future development and move FC onto the new engine to enable FM/DM fixes, expansion with Italy and channel maps, proper modelling of NML and general scenery improvement all accessible on a 5 year old mid-range PC. Sounds good to me. I dunno what everyone's worried about.

[dburne]

Lol 6 pages of conjecture in and we know no more than we did when the thread started.

 

[BladeMeister]

Yes, that is the joy of an open forum and endless speculation! It's human nature to act like we know, when even we know, that we don't know. Or something like that!!!

 

S!Blade<><

[czech693]

11 hours ago, czech693 said:

This will probably get me a bunch of harsh comments, but I think they need to change the business model.  Selling aircraft models has a limit.  I've bought models I didn't care for (Ar234, Me262, Gotha, HP 400) just to support the business.  Eventually, they will run out of models that sell.  So, I think they need to implement a monthly maintenance fee.  I would buy into that if the priorities were:  1)Fix FM, DM and other issues with the existing models;  2)Build more maps and improve existing maps;  3)Build new models and add "variations" to existing models.  A steady income would keep them afloat, otherwise they will reach a peak like ROF and support will stop while they restart a new sim.

I knew that would get comments.  I was just spitballing.  It was to get people thinking about something other than their wish list.   A fee is probalby not the right way to go but there needs to be something to keep the sim alive and growing.  The gist of it is that we have a huge inventory of planes now.  Sure there some left to create, but short of going into the Pacific there's not a large new category of aircraft like when they did Northwest Europe and opened up the late war aircraft.  So aircraft model sales would be piecemeal from here out.  Jason said the Pacific has a problem in that they don't have accurate records of the Japanese aircraft so that's on the back burner.

 

New Battles of X maps would almost have to focus on the Mediterrean area (they already said no Battle of Britain or North Africa).  But, if you haven't noticed they have avoided mapping the large cities on the maps.  No Moscow, Paris, or London (or a future Berlin).  Detailed mapping of those cities would be huge.  So, the Mediterrean map would have to avoid Rome.  What does that leave?  Also, would you have paid a separate fee for the smaller maps like Velikiye Luki?  Would you pay for a small map of the Balkans or Russian-Finnish border?  Those might create a few older aircraft models (and the Buffalo).

 

If you look at the three priorities I listed what would encourage them to do the first or second one?  Repairing existing problems with models doesn't cover billable hours.  They do have to do those repairs eventually to keep customer satisfaction, but that work does not bring in income.   Maps really need to generate new models otherwise the same existing models get used and there's no revenue from that.

 

Comments?

11 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by czech693
double click

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, czech693 said:

I knew that would get comments.  I was just spitballing.  It was to get people thinking about something other than their wish list.   A fee is probalby not the right way to go but there needs to be something to keep the sim alive and growing.  The gist of it is that we have a huge inventory of planes now.  Sure there some left to create, but short of going into the Pacific there's not a large new category of aircraft like when they did Northwest Europe and opened up the late war aircraft.  So aircraft model sales would be piecemeal from here out.  Jason said the Pacific has a problem in that they don't have accurate records of the Japanese aircraft so that's on the back burner.

 

If you look at the three priorities I listed what would encourage them to do the first or second one?  Repairing existing problems with models doesn't cover billable hours.  They do have to do those repairs eventually to keep customer satisfaction, but that work does not bring in income.   Maps really need to generate new models otherwise the same existing models get used and there's no revenue from that.

 

Comments?

 

A monthly fee is 100% not the right way to go. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. There is no real precedent in the market for it, and the sim niche is already off-putting enough to the casual gamer without adding MMO-style pay walls. Even most MMOs have moved away from monthly charges, or at least made it pretty easy to pay your own way with in-game currency for premium services.

 

A monthly fee would serve only to shrink the market/player base further.

 

As for the Pacific, they most likely are going there next, after the currently-in-development installment is complete. It's almost a given. That will cover future profit avenues. Easily 10 years worth of development to be had in the Pacific. I'm sure they're aware of that fact, and aren't going to allow scanty documentation to get in their way. But a new game engine is almost assuredly necessary for the Pacific to work.

 

In the meantime, there's still plenty of content to release for BoX and the other related sims still in production. That's why they're expanding the team: to develop different lines simultaneously. This is not supposition on my part, but said verbatim in the latest dev interview. They can work on the old stuff and the new project at the same time. I see no reason they'd just cut all production on the old stuff, because it's still worth something to them to keep it alive.

 

In short, creating content for old BoX will generate some revenue while new BoX is still being developed. Makes sense to me.

[Gambit21]

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

I knew that would get comments. 

 

Did ya now...well not exactly a stretch with that one.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 It was to get people thinking about something other than their wish list.  

 

Quite a few of us beat you to it I think. 

See the "what now" thread among others.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

A fee is probalby not the right way to go

 

Ya think?

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

 

but there needs to be something to keep the sim alive and growing. 

 

They have that covered...just sit tight.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

The gist of it is that we have a huge inventory of planes now. 

 

Aye, one of the strengths of this product.

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

Sure there some left to create,

 

...yeah...just a few.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

but short of going into the Pacific

 

Already mentioned by Devs, after this next release.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

there's not a large new category of aircraft like when they did Northwest Europe and opened up the late war aircraft.  So aircraft model sales would be piecemeal from here out.  Jason said the Pacific has a problem in that they don't have accurate records of the Japanese aircraft so that's on the back burner.

 

With respect to you, Jason and everyone else, can we please let the whole "Jason said" thing go with regard to PTO aircraft? The fact of the matter is that there's more than enough info out there to create every Zero variant (including the Rufe float plane) as well as a few Oscar variants...at least.  I know because I've done a lot of the research. They'll likely change the business model at some point and we can get away from the whole "5 vs 5" thing.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

New Battles of X maps would almost have to focus on the Mediterrean area

 

No they don't - trust me they don't...and won't.

Sit tight.

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

 

(they already said no Battle of Britain or North Africa).  But, if you haven't noticed they have avoided mapping the large cities on the maps.  No Moscow, Paris, or London (or a future Berlin).  Detailed mapping of those cities would be huge.  So, the Mediterrean map would have to avoid Rome.  What does that leave? 

 

It leaves "not the Mediterranean" which as it turns out, is a lot of territory.

We've already talked about Korea and China/Burma/India

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

Also, would you have paid a separate fee for the smaller maps like Velikiye Luki?  Would you pay for a small map of the Balkans or Russian-Finnish border?  Those might create a few older aircraft models (and the Buffalo).

 

I think you're going to see 3rd party maps in the future, as well as aircraft, and yes you'll have to pay for them if you want them. This will help grow the sim, encourage development of more diverse aircraft etc. 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

If you look at the three priorities I listed what would encourage them to do the first or second one?  Repairing existing problems with models doesn't cover billable hours.

 

Nope...this is why they're pushing ahead as always, and with greater vigor than ever it seems.

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

  They do have to do those repairs eventually to keep customer satisfaction, but that work does not bring in income.  

 

 

From what I've seen, work on the engine is ever ongoing. Despite what you might think, they're always improving things.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

Maps really need to generate new models otherwise the same existing models get used and there's no revenue from that.

 

This will happen sort of organically I think, especially since they've opened the doors to 3rd parties now.

Time will tell.

 

13 hours ago, czech693 said:

 

Comments?

 

 

They're a smart bunch of guys from what I've seen.

Good things on the way I think.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Gambit21

[ST_Catchov]

5 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Yes, that is the joy of an open forum and endless speculation! It's human nature to act like we know, when even we know, that we don't know. Or something like that!!!

 

S!Blade<><

 

Look, there's a lot of stuff we know we don't know but also things we don't know we know. We do however, know what we know and don't know what we don't know. I know that you know that I know even if I don't know but you think I know. It's not rocket science.

 

That is how it works. Here and elsewhere.

[BladeMeister]

22 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Look, there's a lot of stuff we know we don't know but also things we don't know we know. We do however, know what we know and don't know what we don't know. I know that you know that I know even if I don't know but you think I know. It's not rocket science.

 

That is how it works. Here and elsewhere.

The problem is, you don't know what you think you know. You feel like you know it, but honestly you can't know it because well, even the Devs don't know what they they say they know or they would have said they know. They kinda said they know, but it's obvious they don't really know yet because they haven't said what even they think they know. Come on man, They Don't Know, cause it's obvious, if they knew they would have told us what they know and avoided all of this. Believe me, THEY DON'T KNOW!

 

S!Blade<><

 

Wrote all of this sitting on the toilet at 2:16. I thought I knowed this was a good idea but now I probably won't be able to go back to sleep so, I DON'T KNOW if this was such a good idea?

Well, I know my feet are asleep as I can barely walk after standing up, so that's a start.

Edited November 14, 2022 by BladeMeister

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

So the way I read it is they're gonna leave the WWII modules on the old engine with limited future development and move FC onto the new engine to enable FM/DM fixes, expansion with Italy and channel maps, proper modelling of NML and general scenery improvement all accessible on a 5 year old mid-range PC. Sounds good to me. I dunno what everyone's worried about.

Most of that is pure conjecture. They didn't say they're moving to a new engine, they didn't say there'll be new FC maps, they didn't say anything about their stuff working on 5 year old mid-range PCs.

 

4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

No they don't - trust me they don't...and won't.

Sit tight.

I'm still curious what you think the next module will be. "Not Mediterranean" leaves basically just Eastern Front 1944, or do you expect a CBI/Korea module? Do you think Eastern Front 1944 would be commercially more viable than the Mediterranean?

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, BladeMeister said:

Wrote all of this sitting on the toilet at 2:16.

 

There sure was a lot to digest in this thread.

[76IAP-Black]

The Devs are waiting to rise this topic to over 10 pages and than they drop the bomb!!!

Bammm!!!!

"Battle of the Riverboat" 

[BOO]

1 minute ago, 76IAP-Black said:

The Devs are waiting to rise this topic to over 10 pages and than they drop the bomb!!!

Bammm!!!!

"Battle of the Riverboat" 

A 2 week campaign on the Norfolk Broads in peak season. You want a war?...Thats a war!

[firdimigdi]

10 minutes ago, 76IAP-Black said:

The Devs are waiting to rise this topic to over 10 pages and than they drop the bomb!!!

Bammm!!!!

"Battle of the Riverboat" 

 

"Merge it with 'Where is Jason', 'Now What' and the rest"

 

7 minutes ago, BOO said:

A 2 week campaign on the Norfolk Broads in peak season. You want a war?...Thats a war!

 

[BOO]

Just now, firdimigdi said:

 

"Merge it with 'Where is Jason', 'Now What' and the rest"

 

 

Try it with 1 man, 1 wife, a child and a dog.....................there is simply not enough therapy in the world.....

[firdimigdi]

1 minute ago, BOO said:

Try it with 1 man, 1 wife, a child and a dog.....................there is simply not enough therapy in the world.....

 

Ah those tiny moments of familial bliss in between "the dog's been sick again", "daddy I need the loo" and "the mosquitoes are killing me".

[DD_Crash]

So far we have known unknowns and unknown unknowns, Have I forgotten anything?

[DN308]

9 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

So far we have known unknowns and unknown unknowns, Have I forgotten anything?

No, you’re right.

We know nothing but we know it

[76IAP-Black]

Il2 "How I meet your mother" 

[BladeMeister]

48 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

So far we have known unknowns and unknown unknowns, Have I forgotten anything?

See above posts, I am not going to explain it again. You should KNOW by now!

 

S!Blade<><

[Wardog5711]

The sad thing is that I know some gamers that look just like that.  At least my other hobbies involve being outdoors, with other people and running around the woods playing war. If they didn't I would probably be in the same condition. ?

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, DD_Crash said:

So far we have known unknowns and unknown unknowns, Have I forgotten anything?

 

I don't know.

[BlitzPig_EL]

2 hours ago, 76IAP-Black said:

The Devs are waiting to rise this topic to over 10 pages and than they drop the bomb!!!

Bammm!!!!

"Battle of the Riverboat" 

 

USS Panay, Sunk by Japanese aircraft attack while escorting three Standard Oil tankers that were evacuating civilians from the city of Nanking because of the advance of Japanese troops on the city, on Dec. 12 1937.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by BlitzPig_EL

[Halon]

2 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Meh... not enough pages yet.  You need to let this thing grow to at least 15 pages before they pretend to pay attention ?

In that case how many times can I post *Bump* before getting censured? ?

[MisterSmith]

1 hour ago, Halon said:

In that case how many times can I post *Bump* before getting censured? ?

You are already at your limit.............

 

Smith

[Thad]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:49 AM, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

I didn't quite get it either. Is there a new series coming, or will the existing series be converted to a new technology.

 

Yes. ?

[Rjel]

34 minutes ago, Thad said:

 

Yes. ?

That about sums up the entire thread. Thank you sir. 

[Trooper117]

Just now, Rjel said:

That about sums up the entire thread. Thank you sir. 

 

No... 

[Rjel]

9 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

No... 

Greeeat. Now it’ll start all over… $/“@#%*#

[Trooper117]

Just now, Rjel said:

Greeeat. Now it’ll start all over… $/“@#%*#

 

Well, somebody stated we have to go to at least 15 pages before the dev's will bother to even think about giving us a straight answer... so lets get cracking!

[CountZero]

OK my guess is that when they are talking about improved and modern GUI, its conected to VR.

 

You start game and it opens out with your POV in door of hangar and you see airplane in 3D, you can walk around it set settings on working bench, select options and so on.. and to start mission you enter a plane...

 

few 100th posts more to page 15...

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by CountZero

[DD_Crash]

We need some known knowns.

[BOO]

Just now, DD_Crash said:

We need some known knowns.

 

[AndyJWest]

24 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

We need some known knowns.

 

I know I'm not going to learn much by reading this thread...

[DD_Crash]

Thats not the point