Can this be cleared up please...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

20 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I think there may be some kind of misunderstanding about what a game engine is, exactly. A game engine is basically just the superset of several "engines" such as the graphics engine, physics engine, sound engine, gui engine, etc., nothing more. It's important to emphasise the following here:

- A different subset engine doesn't mean that there's a different superset game engine, just that one subengine has been replaced.

- Much of what makes up a different engine is pure semantics. You could separately upgrade all the subsets of the game engine, while still calling the superset the same thing as before (v2). Or you could upgrade just the sound engine, and call it a completely different engine.

- A different subset engine doesn't mean that the data files are incompatible. Both Unity and Unreal support FBX, while they're completely different engines. They probably have very different formats internally, but that doesn't have *any* effect on their capability of reading FBX files because they have got some kind of converter. Similarly, a different IL2 engine doesn't necessarily have any effect on its ability to read files describing e.g. the armour thickness at a certain point. Even *if* you move to a different engine, it doesn't automatically imply incompatibility.

 

In conclusion, even if they plan to completely replace one subset engine, it doesn't say anything about whether or not it'll be a new series.

 

So far, I haven't seen any conclusive remarks even to the effect that they will completely replace one of the subset engines, rather than upgrade it, much less to the effect that doing so would make it incompatible with the current series. If anyone knows of some (time-stamped) quotes, please share it. Otherwise I cannot regard any posts to that effect as anything else than pure speculation.

We know that inside  there are other modules, some are external like sound engine. We are focused on what make it special to other games and it's custom built like flight physic, system and damage model. They once did change engine (evolve) for new project and it became new game. They can't read old files which were made  for old flight physic with  new physic for new planes.  They can copy some data , and  parameters but old planes and new ones in the same game do not make sense. This will be new game which could be built upon old one like they did before. But not compatible with old series. Any way you are also speculative and only devs can answer this question. We just talk. This is insignificant to the facts which we both don't know. Many have same conclusion that new project will be separate build from GB series.

Edited November 10, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Jaegermeister]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

- Much of what makes up a different engine is pure semantics...

 

So far, I haven't seen any conclusive remarks even to the effect that they will completely replace one of the subset engines, rather than upgrade it, much less to the effect that doing so would make it incompatible with the current series. If anyone knows of some (time-stamped) quotes, please share it. 

 

You are correct, and discussing semantics. I will modify my comment and just say "I doubt it"

 

 

From 15:41 - "We work on a new version of our old graphics engine, which from one hand will provide some features from the beginning, and from other hand, and this is most important, it will become ready for future evolution." (not sure I understood "ready" correctly)

 

I'm not pretending to know the answer, I'm stating my interpretation of the remarks we can all listen to. As has been mentioned, it will all be made clear in due time.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[ST_Catchov]

9 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

It'll be announced soon enough, just relax everyone.

 

Yeah but before that we need a sh**load of new threads expressing concern. It could be days away before the next DD!

[Guest deleted@83466]

Since we are only speculating here, I think that they know what they would like to do, but are not confident that they have the resources to pull it off.  It would be bad if they announced the next big thing but then had it all fall through, and it still might.  Alternatively, maybe they know that their next project will turn off a lot of customers, but want to hold off as long as possible so people keep buying existing content.  Maybe both.  Otherwise, If things were all peachy, I think they would have already said what they were going to do next.  Too skeptical on my part?  Maybe, maybe not.
 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by SeaSerpent

[Koziolek]

Maybe not ?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've been having this conversation with some friends and while none of us were prepared to feel confident on exactly what was happening, my personal leaning was that this is heading for a new product line. It is possible and even likely that it will be based on the engine that the series employs now but that the new technology and features that they alluded to in the live stream would mean a break from the previous title.

 

It can be "the same engine" and also not compatible with the previous project.

 

Until we have a clearer picture I can only encourage us to continue to wait and see.

[Gambit21]

I'm not exactly clear either, but as I said in the other thread I enjoyed the interview.

Looking foreword to more info.

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Until we have a clearer picture I can only encourage us to continue to wait and see.

 

I agree completely. With the planned staff increases, I think the team will have the capacity to produce new content and develop new capabilities at the same time.

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I've been having this conversation with some friends and while none of us were prepared to feel confident on exactly what was happening, my personal leaning was that this is heading for a new product line. It is possible and even likely that it will be based on the engine that the series employs now but that the new technology and features that they alluded to in the live stream would mean a break from the previous title.

 

It can be "the same engine" and also not compatible with the previous project.

 

Until we have a clearer picture I can only encourage us to continue to wait and see.

So where does all that talk how they wont to do PTO after next DLC fit into this fantasy ?

So they gona make next 2 collector airplanes, and next DLC for this GB series, but PTO after it for new game based on this game engine but upraded and not compatable with GB, or is next DLC already to be not compatable and separate... and somehow they gona abandon all that we got now for another new project that will be competing with this one and have this same game engine just upgraded (ala RoF to BoS) ?

How does all what was said before fit into this new teorie that now is the prime time for them to start to develop new upgraded game engine separate from all this DLC we have and they suposed to plan to add.

Who would be buying C-47, IAR80, Spit16 Bubble and new 2 collector airplane if this game engine is to be past and not compatible with what they plan to do in close future...

Edited November 11, 2022 by CountZero

[Gambit21]

[CountZero]

[zan64]

3 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

 

It can be "the same engine" and also not compatible with the previous project.

 

case in point, world of warcraft was built on the warcraft 3 engine

 

Bethesda's gambryo engine was used to make morrowind then later fallout 3 

 

in examples above the later games look much different 

[JG13_opcode]

17 hours ago, Fritz_X said:

A clear, official answer would be much appreciated.

 

From the things they said so far (and those they didn't say) one can only assume that they will start clean slate with a new series of modules that is not directly connected to BoX.

 

I mean, those devs know what they are doing and they also know how to communicate. If this new installment and engine-upgrade would be a part of the BoX-franchise, they easily could have said so.

 

Surely you jest.  The IL2 series has been notorious for abysmal communication pretty much since version 1.0.

 

There's a reason why "two weeks be sure" is a meme amongst those of us who have been flying these sims for a while.  The old banana forums were incredibly toxic, in large part because of the frustrations felt by a lot of us about the poor communication.

 

Maybe things are better now?

[IckyATLAS]

I think that it would be a marketing error to cut with the existing BoX titles and create a completely separate new title or series. Many enjoy continuing playing or developing missions on Stalingrad, Moscow, Kuban. If they could continue to have improvements applicable to those titles this will keep some additional revenue coming in and mostly have those title stay updated. 

They also said that they will give us the map editor, to allow us to develop new maps. But this would mean that we could also improve the existing maps. But to do this we need to have the titles stay updated in terms of visuals and graphic engine otherwise it would not be worth doing it.

Completely cutting with the past does not go in the right direction.

 

One additional thing that we should have is the right to freely sell on the platform the work we do (Il2 taking a small commission on each transaction). This can create a very big incentive to develop missions maps and create an even larger game ecosystem.

[Vishnu]

5 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I've been having this conversation with some friends and while none of us were prepared to feel confident on exactly what was happening, my personal leaning was that this is heading for a new product line. It is possible and even likely that it will be based on the engine that the series employs now but that the new technology and features that they alluded to in the live stream would mean a break from the previous title.

 

It can be "the same engine" and also not compatible with the previous project.

 

Until we have a clearer picture I can only encourage us to continue to wait and see.

It is the Steppe after all. 

[PaladinX]

A new project and product could also be a mobile flight simulator game, the market is huuuuge there.

I hope they start a new "series" that brings at least the functions of the old 1946.

And i hope the close the Great Battles chapter now and focus on a new, better solution...

 

[Robli]

9 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

It can be "the same engine" and also not compatible with the previous project.

 

As we know that the next title is not Pacific, it is highly unlikely that they would do something that is not compatible with existing planes and content. For Pacific I would understand, as it is completely new theatre, with (almost) completely different planes, so kind of a new start anyway. But if next title is anything where Luftwaffe participated, they would just kind of throw away content that already exists in BoX.

When they talk about upgrading engine now, to me it sounds more like they intend to make it capable of covering "next 10 years", so Pacific and later add-ons would also come under the same game. If they wanted to step away with current compatibility situation, then they would surely do it, when they move to Pacific, instead of telling about major engine upgrade now.

[danielprates]

3 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I think that it would be a marketing error to cut with the existing BoX titles and create a completely separate new title or series. Many enjoy continuing playing or developing missions on Stalingrad, Moscow, Kuban.

 

It is possible that a totally new game simply incorporates previous maps and planes (... isn't it?). If so that would be a win-win situation. All objections to ending a development cycle and starting another one anew are based on losing maps and planes, I dont think we would feel attached to anything else.

 

You dont just port a plane from "aces over europe" into "msfs",  but perhaps they are thinking of a leap similar to when BOS was done on the skelleton of RoF.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

14 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

They once did change engine (evolve) for new project and it became new game. They can't read old files which were made  for old flight physic with  new physic for new planes.  They can copy some data , and  parameters but old planes and new ones in the same game do not make sense.

That is a completely false point. An engine can read whatever files you program it to read. At least a large part of their flight model files likely consist of things such as Cl or Cd for certain points on the fuselage, at certain speeds or AoAs or whatever. That data is inherent to the plane, not to the engine. You can change the engine however you like, and it might *respond* differently to the provided data, but if Cl happens to be 1.2345 at a certain point on the fuselage, it'll still be 1.2345 a thousand years from now. There is no inherent need to create a new data format if you change the engine, and no inherent need for old data formats to be incompatible with a new engine.

 

13 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

From 15:41 - "We work on a new version of our old graphics engine, which from one hand will provide some features from the beginning, and from other hand, and this is most important, it will become ready for future evolution." (not sure I understood "ready" correctly)

 

I'm not pretending to know the answer, I'm stating my interpretation of the remarks we can all listen to. As has been mentioned, it will all be made clear in due time.

Actually, I think he says "it will become the basis for future evolution." But yes, in meaning it means more or less the same thing as you understood it. So I don't think you've necessarily got the "ready" wrong, but I do think you understand "evolution" wrong. "Evolution" might mean a new product line, yes, but it might just as well mean an improved current product line. Again, I've not heard any remarks that point to the next module being a separate series, rather than an improved current series.

 

23 minutes ago, Robli said:

As we know that the next title is not Pacific, it is highly unlikely that they would do something that is not compatible with existing planes and content. For Pacific I would understand, as it is completely new theatre, with (almost) completely different planes, so kind of a new start anyway. But if next title is anything where Luftwaffe participated, they would just kind of throw away content that already exists in BoX.

When they talk about upgrading engine now, to me it sounds more like they intend to make it capable of covering "next 10 years", so Pacific and later add-ons would also come under the same game. If they wanted to step away with current compatibility situation, then they would surely do it, when they move to Pacific, instead of telling about major engine upgrade now.

Very good points, and I completely agree. Right now, they've got 80-something planes, that you can use on a wide set of maps. Assuming they don't dramatically lower the standards of their maps and/or aircraft, they won't be able to develop much more than the normal 10 planes and one map for the coming module. By definition, that would give it less appeal than their current product line. They'd become their own biggest competitor.

 

The reason they could "start from nothing" back in 2014 was that there wasn't really any serious competition. 1946 was severely outdated already back then, and CloD riddled with bugs.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

That is a completely false point. An engine can read whatever files you program it to read. At least a large part of their flight model files likely consist of things such as Cl or Cd for certain points on the fuselage, at certain speeds or AoAs or whatever. That data is inherent to the plane, not to the engine. You can change the engine however you like, and it might *respond* differently to the provided data, but if Cl happens to be 1.2345 at a certain point on the fuselage, it'll still be 1.2345 a thousand years from now. There is no inherent need to create a new data format if you change the engine, and no inherent need for old data formats to be incompatible with a new engine.

Sure new engine can read old files with  parameters, this obviously, but they also have generated computetinal tables by tool suit for current physic engine and those wouldn't be compatible with new engine. You don't know what they gonna do so do not act like you know everything. None one know how they made new project.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

6 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

You don't know what they gonna do so do not act like you know everything. None one know how they made new project.

Actually, I'm not the one acting like I know everything . I'm saying that we *don't* know whether the new project will be a separate series rather than a new DLC for the current one, since the information they gave can be understood as either.

 

On the other hand, you claim pretty firmly that:

22 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

How i understand new project is different game , it's not in il2 gb directory, no shared content like normal DLC , new executable and data  not compatible whit current series.

 

Now which of us do you think is acting like they know everything?

[Alexmarine]

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Well, I really hope its a major overhaul of the current engine and not a new product line. But I tend to think it will actually be the later.

 

But where do you start from? Barbarossa 1941? Poland 1939?

 

We'll see. I hope they will come out with a clear, official accouncement shortly.

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, Alexmarine said:

I’ll see your Socrates and raise you a Shultz. 

 

[Rokychuchi]

 

Manuel is another great philosopher that knows nothing...

[Rjel]

12 minutes ago, Rokychuchi said:

 

Manuel is another great philosopher that knows nothing...

The world is full of such people. They are called flight simmers.

[szelljr]

What  we now : - No new templates for next 5 years.    (?)

 

?

[Trooper117]

I have no interest in knowing what the next project is at the moment... but I think we would all like a definitive answer from someone in charge, as to whether the new or improved game engine being worked on, will be compatible with all the existing maps and content that we already own, or will it be a completely stand alone and new evolution of the GB series?

This is not a difficult question, a simple answer is all that we require, and may help immensely to calm any worries people have.

 

For me, if it's a stand alone game from the existing content, that's fine... if that is what is required to take the game forward.

[IckyATLAS]

39 minutes ago, szelljr said:

What  we now : - No new templates for next 5 years.    (?)

 

?

And they will increase their team from 30 to 50 people. they must have stuff to do so why not templates ?

[Voidhunger]

I just dont understand why anyone from the team cannot share some info about that.

[[DBS]Browning]

13 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

I just dont understand why anyone from the team cannot share some info about that.

Maybe they are not reading this.

[sevenless]

7 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Maybe they are not reading this.

 

They are and they have a community manager. They have a reason why they haven't revealed "the next big thing" yet.

[FuriousMeow]

Truly mind boggling with the vocal crowd that some GB players are that the team hasn't packed it up and moved on to far more lucrative pastures, and a more appreciative user/fan base.

 

No matter what's announced there's complaints, no matter when it's announced there are complaints. It's lose/lose and for a niche product that won't sell like DOOM and is far harder to code for. It's almost like they're passionate about their product and that they want it to succeed, but you'd never guess that based on some of the more vocal here.

[Wardog5711]

"They are and they have a community manager. They have a reason why they haven't revealed "the next big thing" yet."

 

Actually, there are two of us, and we both report to the same manager. My counterpart on the Russian language sites is dealing with the same questions that I am.

And yes, we have run them up the chain of command. We will be given updates at some point, but that has not happed today.

 

 

[Trooper117]

3 minutes ago, FuriousMeow said:

Truly mind boggling with the vocal crowd that some GB players are that the team hasn't packed it up and moved on to far more lucrative pastures

 

This thread is simply asking for an answer to something that wasn't really answered during the stream... as what they did announce was a bit vague regarding compatibility with existing content.

As Wardog just explained, this has been passed up the chain so we now know it has been seen, plus, the Russian forums are asking the same questions for clarification as well, so that tells you it wasn't even made clear to their own native speakers.

[FuriousMeow]

3 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

This thread is simply asking for an answer to something that wasn't really answered during the stream... as what they did announce was a bit vague regarding compatibility with existing content.

As Wardog just explained, this has been passed up the chain so we now know it has been seen, plus, the Russian forums are asking the same questions for clarification as well, so that tells you it wasn't even made clear to their own native speakers.

 

There's a lot in this thread, and others, that are doing more than "just asking."

[duko]

Maybe i'm missing something but i think they where clear about upgrading the core system engine (graphics, dmg model, new features ) above the existing project so they can have a strong base for the future content (planes, maps ) 

Something similar like an MMO game Ashes of Creation , during development devs decided to move from UE 4 to UE 5 , which is alot of work

[IckyATLAS]

Sure for modeling the map, the environment, the water, river, sea, sky and clouds, some physics, UE5 may bring something, but the maps in IL2 are huge compared to the maps in typical UE5 games. But for the Flight sim part of it UE5 is maybe not adapted. Flight Sims are probably something very special in terms of engine.

 

[Rjel]

11 minutes ago, FuriousMeow said:

 

There's a lot in this thread, and others, that are doing more than "just asking."

As it always happens I think. But I think that shows most of us are very attached to this sim. Very dedicated to it. I think of it as “mine”. I doubt I’m alone.  

Edited November 11, 2022 by Rjel

[Voidhunger]

I dont care about what the new theater will be but whether the new theater will be compatibile with our BOX collection or not.

Its simple -just yes or no

Edited November 11, 2022 by Voidhunger