Red ace pilot defensive moves in Lagg 3

[JG27*Kornezov]

 

Red ace pilot defensive moves in Lagg 3. This is a show case of very advanced defensive moves and how somewhat to counter them using some strange ways. The video is tactilly intresting even if it is not a cinematic piece of art. The major tactical points are: -The overshoot passing from scissors into vertical scissors and overshoot -The instant deceleration with dropping gear. -The transition into downward spiral, the Lagg using lanfing flaps and the 109 using snap roll -Radial defense of the 109 -Deck transition and 2 circle fight on the deck

[JG27*PapaFly]

Nice one mate! Tactically speaking, that Lagg pilot lives in the moment. He was totally caught up in the slow flying contest (scissors and flaps), and botched his deck transition badly. As he eventually had to pull his nose up from the downward scissors,  he was too late, too low and too slow with his flaps hanging out. You transited earlier and higher to a rate fight,  and were able to take that advantage to victory.  He was on the verge of a stall after 90 degrees of turning on deck.  Not a good place to be if turn rate is the name of the game.  You could have delayed your gear retraction by one scissor cycle IMO, but the vid might screw my perception.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Exactly this is what happens when you deploy flaps in a rate fight. However this was a Lagg the Yak could do much better, but the Lagg once gets slow on deck...

I could try if 109 downward  spiral with gear could beat flaps. I was not sure I deployed gear to avoid to pop just in front of him after the overshoot.

Edited November 8, 2022 by JG27_Kornezov

[JG27*PapaFly]

Damn that downward scissors is a thrill!  And so CLOSE! Admit it,  you wanted to replicate this scene:

 

[JG27*Kornezov]

Maverick sucks terribly in shooting lol

Edited December 31, 2022 by JG27_Kornezov

[MK_RED13]

Neverending story.. VVS FLAPS... but Kornezov made a excellent job.. ? ? ? 

[Jaws2002]

Well, In all honesty, the 109F4 holds all the cards against the Lagg. There's nothing the Lagg does better than the 109. These two planes are not even close. All the Lagg can hope for is to get an angle, while trading altitude for position.  

   The 109 is expected to win in a fight against the Lagg3. 

 

[JG27*PapaFly]

22 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Well, In all honesty, the 109F4 holds all the cards against the Lagg. There's nothing the Lagg does better than the 109. These two planes are not even close. All the Lagg can hope for is to get an angle, while trading altitude for position.  

   The 109 is expected to win in a fight against the Lagg3. 

 

The LA-5FN also holds all the cards against the FW190A5, but that doesn't guarantee a win.  I've shot down many LA drivers who didn't realize that I can dump energy much faster, force an overshoot, and bag them in no time. Korny executed his game plan really well.

[CUJO_1970]

14 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

The LA-5FN also holds all the cards against the FW190A5

 

Sure, they took FW190A-5 roll rate and gave it to La-5FN. ?

 

Hans Lerche said in testing La-5FN rolled similar to 109, but you measure La-5FN roll rate in sim it basically identical to RAF test with FW190A. 190 also had control rods, not cables and rigid thru-spar wing. La-5FN had wood wing that deteriorated rather quickly and used cables for control...there is reason VVS converted this aircraft to all-metal as soon as they could.

 

FW190 would be like a new aircraft in the sim if they would correct this.

[Lusekofte]

35 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

The LA-5FN

I cannot hit anything with that plane nothing. I admire all doing well with it

[Jaws2002]

3 hours ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

The LA-5FN also holds all the cards against the FW190A5, but that doesn't guarantee a win.  I've shot down many LA drivers who didn't realize that I can dump energy much faster, force an overshoot, and bag them in no time. Korny executed his game plan really well.

Actually A5 and La-5FN are very close, with the planes trading blows depending on altitude. The advantage La-5 has is turn rate and the typical Russian engine, where you can throw the throttle to the wall and forget about it.

 Lagg 3 and BF-109F4 are not in the same class. The 109 is faster at all altitudes, faster in the dive, faster in the climb at all altitudes. It also turns better, accelerates and decelerates faster. There's very little the Lagg can do against F4.

 I'm not dissing Kornezov for the video. It's quite entertaining and educative, I just fly both of them and they are not close in performance. The Lagg is horribly underpowered compared to the F4, and it's expected to lose.

2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Sure, they took FW190A-5 roll rate and gave it to La-5FN. ?

 

Hans Lerche said in testing La-5FN rolled similar to 109, but you measure La-5FN roll rate in sim it basically identical to RAF test with FW190A. 190 also had control rods, not cables and rigid thru-spar wing. La-5FN had wood wing that deteriorated rather quickly and used cables for control...there is reason VVS converted this aircraft to all-metal as soon as they could.

 

FW190 would be like a new aircraft in the sim if they would correct this.

 

 

 If I remember correctly, from the discussions about the FW-190 back when the A3 was released, the issue is not the Roll rate, but the Roll inertia. I remember talking with VikS about this. The 190 does reach it's actual roll rate, but the inertia dramatically slows down the initiation of the roll. I remember the developers said the reason for that high roll inertia was the weight of the guns and ammo, far out on the wings.

 I didn't test it recently. I don't know if it was changed. but I think that was the reason La-5 felt much more responsive in roll. It did the first 90 degrees much faster.

 

Maybe we should test them again, with and without outer guns.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Jaws2002

[CUJO_1970]

14 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

If I remember correctly, from the discussions about the FW-190 back when the A3 was released, the issue is not the Roll rate, but the Roll inertia. I remember talking with VikS about this. The 190 does reach it's actual roll rate, but the inertia dramatically slows down the initiation of the roll. I remember the developers said the reason for that high roll inertia was the weight of the guns and ammo, far out on the wings.

 I didn't test it recently. I don't know if it was changed. but I think that was the reason La-5 felt much more responsive in roll. It did the first 90 degrees much faster.

 

The RAF report is pretty clear - peak roll rate was something like 165 degrees per second and that was an instantaneous roll rate. It was also not the fastest rolling FW190 in their inventory per their own report, as there was a slight issue with aileron adjustment. The RAF even had gun camera measurement of FW190s in combat, in addition to testing the actual aircraft.

 

Decreased roll rate due to ammo/guns in the outer wings - not supported by anything I've ever read and besides - if that was the case, deleting the outer cannons on A-3/A-5 (not an in-game option for A-8) would then make it roll faster...but it does not. I was also told long ago by one of the developers that it only would reach peak roll rate after 4 continuous rolls, which is (with all due respect) simply wrong. IIRC it comes from a document where they did the average of 4 separate roll tests...this was misunderstood to mean the FW190 would only reach peak roll rate after rolling all the way through 4 rolls...which makes absolutely zero sense.

 

At any event, the 190 does not reach it's peak roll rate in the sim, either instantly or eventually.

Edited January 4, 2023 by CUJO_1970

[Jaws2002]

I kind of agree with you, but it is what it is. I made a bug report about FW-190 handling back after the A3 release. Some things were fixed, for other aspects, I was told there's not enough data. It was a long time ago.

Here are two pages from "FW-190. An illustrated history", talking about the particular attention paid to the ailerons and controls harmonization:

 

 

 

[MasterBaiter]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:52 PM, dogefighter said:

That's your takeaway from the vid? "VVS FLAPS BROKEN"?

 

Love how he completely ignored the 109 dropping down it's landing gear mid dogfight lmao

 

What are your thoughts on this vid MK_RED13?

 

 

[Sokol1]

These Fw190 "tricks" make the exaggeration of movie Red Tails kindergarten stuff. ?

[MK_RED13]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:52 PM, dogefighter said:

That's your takeaway from the vid? "VVS FLAPS BROKEN"?

 

Love how he completely ignored the 109 dropping down it's landing gear mid dogfight lmao

 

What are your thoughts on this vid MK_RED13?

 

Flaps fight.. muhehehehehe... send me trk file.. I want to see this fight in game.. 

 

btw .. Kornezov109 dropped landing gear to slow down more (his speed was very low ... and you know it)

 

Ed.