Timeline of the ETO air war?

[Voyager]

I'm trying to figure out what were the air operations that happened after the Battle of Britain and Blitz in 1940/41, and the preparation for the Normandy invasion in mid-1944.

 

I recall there was the strategic bombing campaign, and the Battle of the Atlantic, but what were the shorter ranged fighters doing? Mostly just cross channel escort and recon? 

[CountZero]

"Circus was the codename given to operations by the Royal Air Force (RAF) during the Second World War where bombers, with a mass escort of fighters, were sent over continental Europe to bring Luftwaffe fighters into combat. ...There were other codenames for similar missions.

• Ramrod: similar to Circus but with destroying a target being the principal aim. An example would be Operation Ramrod 16.
• Ranger: large fighter formation intrusion over occupied territory with aim of wearing down German fighter force.
• Roadstead: low-level attack on coastal shipping.
• Rhubarb: small-scale freelance fighter sorties against ground targets of opportunity."

 

 

Also you had failed Dieppe invasion in 1942

 

And escorting B-17 simple timeline:
"The greatest need (and opportunity) for a long-range escort Spitfire was between August 1942, when the Eighth Air Force began its daylight campaign over Europe, and early 1944 when the Merlin Mustang appeared in strength. In August 1942, the Mk IX Spitfire was Fighter Command’s leading interceptor but, as it had only been in service for a month, the less capable Mk V still made up the bulk of front line strength. The Eighth’s first target (using the B-17E Flying Fortress) was the French town of Rouen and, given its proximity to England, Spitfires provided the escort. For targets deeper in Europe, the Spitfire’s short range was a severe limitation and precluded it as an escort. P-38 Lightnings arrived in the UK during the summer of 42 but this large aircraft (its empty weight was double that of the Mustang’s) was at a disadvantage in combat against the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and the nimble Focke Wulf Fw 190. The P-47 Thunderbolt began escort duties in April 1943 but even with 254 gallons of internal fuel (three times the Spitfire’s load) this thirsty beast lacked the range for deep escort. Adding a 166-gallon drop tank significantly increased the Thunderbolt’s radius of action (though not to Mustang standards) and long-range escort missions were flown from April 1943. Although a capable high level fighter, at low and medium altitudes the P-47 could not match the defending German interceptors for climb or manoeuvrability. It was the advent of the Merlin Mustang in December 1943 that firmly shifted the balance in favour of the Eighth Air Force."

Edited October 24, 2022 by CountZero

[Voyager]

So: 

 

1940: Battle of Britian

1941: Blitz

1941: RAF Circus/Ramrod Ops start

1942: Isolated raids

1942: Strategic bombing camapign starts

1944: Invasion of Normady

1944-1945 March across Europe/fall of Germany. 

 

So basically from around 1942 through 1944, the RAF and USAAF fighter cores operated on about the area of the Normandy map doing various things, and escorting bombers to the limits of their range, but that's pretty much the thing? 

 

I wonder if we've got enough of the late 1942, early 1943 types that we could actually cover that, at least once we've got the drop tank system working? We would probably need to use the B-26's as stand ins for the bomber forces, but it's a start. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Sorry fellas, what does ETO stand for? E.... theatre of operations? "E" for what?

 

 

[Trooper117]

European...

[CountZero]

15 minutes ago, Voyager said:

So: 

 

1940: Battle of Britian

1941: Blitz

1941: RAF Circus/Ramrod Ops start

1942: Isolated raids

1942: Strategic bombing camapign starts

1944: Invasion of Normady

1944-1945 March across Europe/fall of Germany. 

 

So basically from around 1942 through 1944, the RAF and USAAF fighter cores operated on about the area of the Normandy map doing various things, and escorting bombers to the limits of their range, but that's pretty much the thing? 

 

I wonder if we've got enough of the late 1942, early 1943 types that we could actually cover that, at least once we've got the drop tank system working? We would probably need to use the B-26's as stand ins for the bomber forces, but it's a start. 

On axis side you have most fighters, on allied side youll have to pretend some late models are early models of same type.

Its already done in MP. 

[CUJO_1970]

1 minute ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Sorry fellas, what does ETO stand for? E.... theatre of operations? "E" for what?

 

 

 

The E is for "Exciting"! The Exciting Theatre of Operations.

 

At least that's what I was always told.

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

European...

 

Generally western Europe, in that the TLA originated in the US, where knowledge of geography was somewhat lacking. ?

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

I'm trying to figure out what were the air operations that happened after the Battle of Britain and Blitz in 1940/41, and the preparation for the Normandy invasion in mid-1944.

 

I recall there was the strategic bombing campaign, and the Battle of the Atlantic, but what were the shorter ranged fighters doing? Mostly just cross channel escort and recon? 

 

There was so much going on.

All sorts of cross-channel raids, recon, etc.

Mossies, Mustangs, Spits, night fighters...the list goes on.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thx Trooper, "European", ok.

 

Thank you for your intervention, CUJO_1970, "Exciting Theatre of Operations" this simply defines "Pacific Theatre of Operations" (LoL, just joking and teasing the community...).

 

Thank you Andy... but what does TLA stand for? A had a quick look in the internet, but no joy...

 

 

[AndyJWest]

Just now, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

what does TLA stand for

 

Three-Letter Acronym.

 

A post-war usage, I believe, possibly originating with computer nerds at IBM. They also came up with ETLA, which is Extended Three-Letter Acronym. 

 

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, AndyJWest said:

They also came up with ETLA, which is Extended Three-Letter Acronym. 

 

 

 

 

 

How did they extend it? With a fourth letter? LoL....

 

Thx for the answer mate.

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

 

18 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Thx Trooper, "European", ok.

 

Thank you for your intervention, CUJO_1970, "Exciting Theatre of Operations" this simply defines "Pacific Theatre of Operations" (LoL, just joking and teasing the community...).

 

Thank you Andy... but what does TLA stand for? A had a quick look in the internet, but no joy...

 

 

PTO = SOL

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by SeaSerpent
Kintaro, that’s American for $h1t Outta Luck

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Mercy! Mercy! Not another acronym!

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by 343KKT_Kintaro
Oh... SeaSerpent... I see... but... come on my friend, what's wrong with the PTO? :)

[Voyager]

45 minutes ago, CountZero said:

On axis side you have most fighters, on allied side youll have to pretend some late models are early models of same type.

Its already done in MP. 

 

Could definitely see that with some of the planes, P-38, and Typhoon in particular. P-47 mostly came down to optional equipment, though I would love to see a D-5 version, to cover the stick props. 

 

43 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Generally western Europe, in that the TLA originated in the US, where knowledge of geography was somewhat lacking. ?

 

Trust me, MTO is way clearer than trying to interpret my spelling of that sea... 

[Guest deleted@83466]

42 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Mercy! Mercy! Not another acronym!

 

To clarify, Kintaro, nothing is wrong with PTO, only that we are “out of luck”.  We are not getting it.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, SeaSerpent said:

To clarify, Kintaro, nothing is wrong with PTO, only that we are “out of luck”.  We are not getting it.

 

 

Good, I thought you were upset because somebody brouhgt again a mention to this theatre of operations.

 

No worries fella... we'll get it. In La Fontaine's Fables it is said patience et longueur de temps font plus que force ni que rage ("patience and length of time do more than strength or rage").

 

 

[Guest deleted@83466]

No worries.  I think you could use some T & A.

 

?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Ok... another acronym... let's keep calm... let's be rational...

 

Please tell me you refer to the second item in the "See also" list:

 

T & A - Wikipedia

 

 

Going back to the ETO (now I know what it is, thx), think about the following: we have three Eastern front modules and two Western front modules... to balance all of this we'd need a third Western front module, a module that would be keeping the usual Great Battles timeline, thus 1943 onwards.

 

[R33GZ]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Three-Letter Acronym.

 

A post-war usage, I believe, possibly originating with computer nerds at IBM. They also came up with ETLA, which is Extended Three-Letter Acronym. 

 

 

 

I love it ? using a 3 letter acronym to describe the 3 letter acronym.

 

That's pure genius

[AndyJWest]

10 hours ago, R33GZ said:

I love it ? using a 3 letter acronym to describe the 3 letter acronym.

 

That's pure genius

 

The ultimate is the recursive TLA. As in GNU (the operating system, not the Wildebeest): it stands for GNU is Not Unix...

[Trooper117]

Well, they could go to the MTO, or even the KTO, just to be different and NEW...

[357th_KW]

18 hours ago, Voyager said:

So: 

 

1940: Battle of Britian

1941: Blitz

1941: RAF Circus/Ramrod Ops start

1942: Isolated raids

1942: Strategic bombing camapign starts

1944: Invasion of Normady

1944-1945 March across Europe/fall of Germany. 

 

So basically from around 1942 through 1944, the RAF and USAAF fighter cores operated on about the area of the Normandy map doing various things, and escorting bombers to the limits of their range, but that's pretty much the thing? 

 

I wonder if we've got enough of the late 1942, early 1943 types that we could actually cover that, at least once we've got the drop tank system working? We would probably need to use the B-26's as stand ins for the bomber forces, but it's a start. 

 

We don’t have a lot in the way of relevant Allied planes to use prior to 1944, but we do have a few to work with.  The Hurricane II saw plenty of use on the channel front, mostly as a fighter bomber.  The Spit Vb was the standard fighter for the RAF from mid 1941 through 1942, and still saw plenty of use right up to 1944.  Our Spit IX is a later aircraft with a Merlin 66 (which first saw use in spring 1943) and has a lot more performance then the early Spit F.IX - though the 190A3 we have is much faster then it should be at high altitude, so maybe it’s not a huge deal to sub it into a 1942 or early 1943 scenario.  The A-20 we have is a decent stand-in for an RAF Boston III which was used extensively in Circus ops and other raids in 1942/43.  The Typhoon we have is a 1944 model with a lot more performance then an early 42/43 variant.  The P-47D-22 is a real dog in game without 150 octane fuel, and probably stands in well for a P-47C when matched up against a 190A or 109G.

[JV69badatflyski]

21 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

The E is for "Exciting"! The Exciting Theatre of Operations.

 

At least that's what I was always told.

Actually it's the true, it was the best period, the most exciting for the Lw and the RaF, every day there were operations from both sides.
Also it's really fantastic to read in books and in Orbs what happenend on the daily level, the Raf despair, unable to fight only 2 (not even full) Gruppen that turned the whole Raf around their fingers, the Raf's fights against the "intruders" and the technical evolution of airplanes and weapons.
Qua mission making, the Jan41 to Sept43 period is the best one from the whole WWII...
And especially, the whole year when the small shrike-bird made the fighter-pilots shiver