Flying Circus Compared to RoF

[MilonRouge]

Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong section, i'm fairly new to Il-2 and am just trying to figure out what order to get things.  I was planning on getting Flying Circus Vol. 1 (and Tank Crew) next time there was a sale, but while watching some videos on it and Rise of Flight i saw some people saying that FC flight model was simplified from what RoF has.  I'm not sure if this is true or not, so i figured i'd ask here and see what the general consensus is on the differences between FC and RoF, especially when it comes to how the planes feel and operate?  Also, is the single-player for FC as fleshed-out as the BoS one? I defs would love to play multiplayer, but i do enjoy single-player stuff as well.  I do like that FC can be played with the other Great Battles games, so that's defs a huge plus.  Any other feedback would be super-helpful as well! ?

[Avimimus]

The flight model is the same (originally it was the actual RoF code used apparently), but with improvements in some cases.

 

Flying Circus will generally provide better graphics and better damage models. Otherwise they aren't that different.

 

I'd tend to encourage getting FC as it is still in development and will hopefully get all of the original features and more (the only thing which hasn't been announced so far is seaplanes).   Note: The dynamic campaign and artillery spotting are apparently in development but haven't been released yet for FC.

[Skycat1969]

I don't have Rise of Flight but I do have Flying Circus Vol. 1. I did not buy into the FC Vol. 2 Early Access. Here are my thoughts and understandings on the differences:

 

Flying Circus was envisioned as a multiplayer-only experience (as was Tank Crew). It does not yet have a career mode like the BoS series. However, the public demand for a single-player experience has caused four scripted mini-campaigns to be added to FC vol. 1. FC vol. 2 will deliver a promised career mode. In the meanwhile the excellent Pat Wilson Campaign Generator is a popular and recommended solution/alternative.

 

The selling point for FC in my opinion is that it is built to support VR. If you are a VR user, the open cockpits and close-range combat is really immersive and a lot of fun.

 

I'll let the RoF users explain the game differences but from what I've seen a lot of the arguments supporting RoF boil down to you can get several times more content with RoF.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Skycat1969

[71st_AH_Rob_XR-R]

I have been flying RoF for about ten years and prefer almost every aspect of it.  That being said I don't fly in VR ... yet. 

 

You can download RoF and purchase a single aircraft, one that you are interested in, for a couple of dollars and get the entire map. Try it out and see what you think. EDIT: it comes with two free ac so just download and fly.

 

There are more ac available in RoF, maps are bigger, aircraft models are comparable but textures are better in FC. FC has VR.  Clouds are better in RoF as is spotting.  Flight model is similar.  RoF has a career mode for SP but Pat has stopped updating his dynamic campaign generator (PWCG). 

 

Basically, I fly FC waiting for it to reach its potential and wish it was as good as RoF was at its azimuth.

Edited October 23, 2022 by 71st_AH_Rob_XR-R

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Game play is much better in RoF, where you can get missions to direct artillery, level bomb cities and airfields. 

The reargunner is more deadly too, which is far more correct, as fighters preferred to dogfight than attack a tailgunner. 

 

Yes the grafic is better in FC and so is the damage model. But believe the game play is more important.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Do many people fly ROF online?

[MilonRouge]

Thanks for all the input everyone!  Hopefully other peeps will chime in as well; the more, the merrier ?

I think i'm gonna give RoF a download and try out the free planes while i wait for a fall sale on the Great Battles stuff ^_^

 

Just curious, do you guys know if the RoF stuff usually goes on sale alongside Great Battles sales?

 

 

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, 71st_AH_Rob_XR-R said:

There are more ac available in RoF, maps are bigger, aircraft models are comparable but textures are better in FC.

 

Is this actually true - once the Flying Circus Vol 2 maps are released (which will upgrade the FC1 map as well)?

 

 

2 hours ago, 71st_AH_Rob_XR-R said:

Clouds are better in RoF as is spotting.

 

I find this hard to believe. I've flown both for years and the new cloud system in FC is absolutely breathtaking, whereas RoF is definitely showing its age.

 

 

43 minutes ago, MilonRouge said:

Thanks for all the input everyone!  Hopefully other peeps will chime in as well; the more, the merrier ?

I think i'm gonna give RoF a download and try out the free planes while i wait for a fall sale on the Great Battles stuff ^_^

 

Just curious, do you guys know if the RoF stuff usually goes on sale alongside Great Battles sales?

 

Yes, Great Battles, Flying Circus, and Rise of Flight all go on sale at a relatively similar time... occasionally with a slight stagger.

 

If you buy anything for Rise of Flight I'd recommend the channel map and float-planes as they may be the last to be brought into Flying Circus. There are a lot of engine improvements in Flying Circus and Vol.3 should be announced sometime this fall/winter (if they stick to their original plan) - at which point the vast majority of aircraft will have been updated.

 

But definitely try the free aircraft in Rise of Flight. If you have the money, you might want to get both - but RoF is definitely no longer supported or in development.

[Hotaru_Ito]

Only reason I bought FC is VR, which is absolutely glorious. Other improvements are only incremental, better graphics, better flight model, etc. but nothing really groundbreaking--RoF is still totally playable and a lot of fun, with way more content in terms of maps, planes, and career mode than FC currently has.

 

If you're not into VR or multiplayer, I'd go for Rise of Flight for now, especially since I think you can still try out the Nieuport 17 and Albatros D.Va for free and all RoF content is usually 75% off on sale, making it pretty cheap compared to FC. That said, I'd also check back after the FC2 full release, because the addition of a better map with 4 seasons and career mode will go a long way toward bringing FC up to the standard of RoF.

 

If you ARE into VR, FC1 and 2 are 100% worth it, especially on sale prices. Nothing quite like flying WWI planes in VR, and there are some scripted campaigns plus the PWCG option for career.

 

Can't say much about multiplayer myself, but I'd imagine it's pretty good in FC as well, since the lack of career, limited plane set, and small map are less of an issue there and I expect its servers are more active than RoF ones. That's just a guess, though.

[=J18=FritzGerald]

4 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Do many people fly ROF online?

J99 is semi active currently, and the joint squadron of J18 and No.10 Squadron is gathering quite large numbers these days.

S!

3 hours ago, MilonRouge said:

Just curious, do you guys know if the RoF stuff usually goes on sale alongside Great Battles sales?

 

 

It does, at a 75% off rate most always.

S!

[343KKT_Kintaro]

51 minutes ago, Hotaru_Ito said:

VR, which is absolutely glorious. Other improvements are only incremental

 

 

I do agree that "Rise of Flight" still is in 2022 a fairly playable simulator... but there are at least three features that make "Flying Circus" far superior to "Rise of Flight":

 

1) VR... as you said Hotaru, but not only Vr, please read features 2) and 3).

 

2) The pilot's physiological/health system (in Great Battles that latter has been a disaster until last year, now I really appreciate it as it is).

 

3) The clouds and the weather engine (those latter are obsolete in "Rise of Flight" if compared to Great Battles' equivalents).

 

So those three above mentioned items are, to me, the advantages we find in "Flying Circus" now. Thus, there's no better WWI combat flight sim out there, not even the original "Rise of Flight"... The pity is that the payment formula was cheaper in the "Rise of Flight" system... but it was financially unsustainable for the developer. The "Great Battles" formula is financially sustainable for the developer and, even if now we have to pay for our "Rise of Flight" for the second time, at least we witness an ongoing development with new improvements we couldn't have back in the late 2000s. Apparently it would have been impossible as the things were going in 2009 with the old funding formula.

 

This is important: I do possess absolutely everything in "Rise of Flight", all 40 aircraft including the S-22 Ilya Muromets... and the Channel map. I do not possess the "modification" payable features though.

 

In 2019 I stopped purchasing modules in the "Great Battles" series... but in the future I think I'll wait for discounts and complete the entire "Flying Circus" series. I'm a great fan of WWI aviation and I don't think I'll miss the modernisation of "Rise of Flight" via "Flying Circus".

 

Rest in peace, "Rise of Flight", I will never forget the unveiling of some steps in your development. That was spectatular in 2005 and 2006 to witness how the pre-Neoqb companies, dStrict and Gennadich Team, shared their giant leaps in development: I remember the first time I saw cast shadows of the aircraft structure on the player's cockpit, or on the structure itself (wings, fuselage...), I remember the reflections of the light on the aircraft surfaces... the behaviour of the wind in the seminal weather engine, the grasses on the ground moving under the wind... all these novelties were mind-blowing at the time...

 

 

[Hotaru_Ito]

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I do agree that "Rise of Flight" still is in 2022 a fairly playable simulator... but there are at least three features that make "Flying Circus" far superior to "Rise of Flight":

 

1) VR... as you said Hotaru, but not only Vr, please read features 2) and 3).

 

2) The pilot's physiological/health system (in Great Battles that latter has been a disaster until last year, now I really appreciate it as it is).

 

3) The clouds and the weather engine (those latter are obsolete in "Rise of Flight" if compared to Great Battles' equivalents).

 

Both of those are cool, especially the new clouds, which really are spectacular, but when I go back to Rise of Flight, I don't find myself missing them like I miss VR. To each their own.

 

It's a question of weighing what features you think are most important against the extra cost of FC, and deciding whether it's worth it. What's absolutely essential for me might not mean anything to you, and my incremental improvements might be your paradigm shifts. Nothing wrong with that.

 

PS. Just to be clear, I love FC and highly recommend it in general, especially now that we're getting a real map, career, etc. in FC2. But RoF is still a great game with more content for a lot less money, and I think it's worth a look before shelling out for FC, at least at this stage.

 

PPS. One other minor point in favor of RoF: it's more moddable, if that's your thing. I think somebody even managed to mod in Zeppelins. FC is moddable too, but the scope is more limited.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Hotaru_Ito

[Gambit21]

RoF’s “turn right and descend” AI make it a no-go for me. That’s why I dropped it years ago.

[Luftschiff]

I vastly prefer RoF in almost every respect except the lack of VR support - the simplest way to summarize is that Rise of Flight is a game.
FC I&II feel like modpacks, add-ons, which they are. They're small, incomplete packs of WW1 planes in a WW2 simulator and though I love them there's just not nearly enough there to constitute a complete experience. 

 

There's also technical issues like the awkwardness of trying to map these canvas birds into the same damage model as ww2 powerhouses, and I'll always prefer RoF in this regard. It's an interesting foray, I'll always support it - but as Rob said above - I keep hoping one day FC will approach RoF at its zenith, but it's far, far away at present. 

[Trooper117]

8 hours ago, Avimimus said:

There are a lot of engine improvements in Flying Circus and Vol.3 should be announced sometime this fall/winter (if they stick to their original plan) - at which point the vast majority of aircraft will have been updated.

 

I must have missed that... when was it stated the vast majority of FC aeroplanes would be updated by Autumn/winter?

[Zooropa_Fly]

The sad reality is that the WW1 MP scene is rubbish at the moment, and will likely never recover to what it was 10 years ago.

 

RoF is probably lucky to get a dozen players spread out over the course of a day.

 

FC, to the best of my knowledge still has a couple of busy nights / week on one server, but that's about it.

And it's the same map mission after mission. I had a go yesterday for the first time in ages :

Two other players.

I went on a couple of Bristol bombing runs - dropped bombs and nothing exploded.

Very unfulfilling experience.

 

Milon - you might as well give RoF free to play a go.

If you're into it, I'd encourage you to get FC as well.

It does have certain advantages over RoF, mentioned above, but the gameplay experience is very similar.

 

As irrelevant as it may be to say, I still can't help thinking where RoF could be today if it had had the time and resources that were put into FC.

A large number of improvements are potentially already there thanks to the modders.

We'd probably have every plane that saw action by now, any number of map improvements.

Hell by now they might have dealt with the 'floating castles' and wrongly allocated icons. All the silly stuff.

And it would still be a stand alone game, not mixed up with WW2, that doesn't take my computer half an hour to load up !

Under this scenario, I expect there'd be a healthier MP crowd overall than we currently have.

I know nothing of game engines, so maybe they couldn't have done much more with RoF, but I still dream sometimes..

I expect that VR was probably the kicker in moving to Great Battles.

 

Of course RoF's 'free to play' status helped get punters in.

Yes there were a few idiots, but there were servers for them, and it used to be a good laugh a lot of the time.

And the occasional idiot took it seriously after a while, and became a regular.

Sims are a big financial and time consuming investment these days, and even powering them will be a consideration for some now.

So if no ftp option, maybe FC should have a cheap starter pack - say £15 for the map, Alb, and Spad, upgradable to the full FC1 if desired ?

 

Anyway, I'm sure you'll enjoy whichever you go for.

 

S!

[kendo]

13 hours ago, 71st_AH_Rob_XR-R said:

I have been flying RoF for about ten years and prefer almost every aspect of it.  That being said I don't fly in VR ... yet. 

 

You can download RoF and purchase a single aircraft, one that you are interested in, for a couple of dollars and get the entire map. Try it out and see what you think. EDIT: it comes with two free ac so just download and fly.

 

There are more ac available in RoF, maps are bigger, aircraft models are comparable but textures are better in FC. FC has VR.  Clouds are better in RoF as is spotting.  Flight model is similar.  RoF has a career mode for SP but Pat has stopped updating his dynamic campaign generator (PWCG). 

 

Basically, I fly FC waiting for it to reach its potential and wish it was as good as RoF was at its azimuth.

 

 

"Clouds are better in ROF" ....sorry...what? No way Jose ?

 

To cover your other points: FC is awaiting bigger maps, artillery spotting and recon functionality, career mode.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

3 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

As irrelevant as it may be to say, I still can't help thinking where RoF could be today if it had had the time and resources that were put into FC.

 

 

As I said in my previous post, what made the Great Battles viable was its funding mode: aircraft delivered in dribs and drabs, 8 for a standard module, 10 for a "Premium" module... but anyway all of them for dearer prices than the prices you find in the "Rise of Flight" onlne store. So it makes few sense to speculate on what Rise of Flight "could be today" if you don't take the funding mode into account. If you go back to 2010 when Jason Williams purchased "Rise of Flight" he just couldn't have applied the funding mode he applies now in Great Battles simply because those having purchased plenty of RoF material would have massively complained at the time. A bad thing for the game's reputation.

 

 

[Avimimus]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

I must have missed that... when was it stated the vast majority of FC aeroplanes would be updated by Autumn/winter?

 

I meant that Flying Circus Vol.3 (which is already announced) should receive a full announcement, complete with a plane list - and we should start seeing those aircraft as early as next spring. So we'll see more than thirty of the ~thirty-eight aircraft from Rise of Flight officially on the production line.

 

  

3 hours ago, kendo said:

To cover your other points: FC is awaiting bigger maps, artillery spotting and recon functionality, career mode.

 

With screenshots of all three having been shown in dev updates.

[71st_AH_Rob_XR-R]

3 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

With screenshots of all three having been shown in dev updates.

Yes, and still not covering the area of RoF yet, but maybe FC 3 or 4 will finish the job.

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

The graphics in FC are better, and FC has VR. ROF has some graphical mods you can use in single player that make the game look better. The gameplay and balancing is better in Rise of Flight. The variety is better in Rise of Flight. Both have damage model issues, but Rise of Flight's issues are not quite as glaring and imbalanced as FC is suffering from. The player base in FC is better if you're playing multiplayer. The AI is not particularly good in FC or ROF, though it can be marginally improved with the AI mod for ROF. If you're into the single-player campaign thing, or flying a lot of single player against AI, a modded version of Rise of Flight or Wings Over Flanders Fields would be the picks.

Edited October 26, 2022 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[Guest deleted@83466]

If someone is very, very new, Rise of Flight has a tutorial that is worth doing.

[J2_Trupobaw]

5 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

If someone is very, very new, Rise of Flight has a tutorial that is worth doing.

If someone is very, very new, the Summer 1917 career mode in free Albatros D.Va is a tutorial in itself. Flying is simplified (no G-LOC), plane is easy to fly and powerful, Nieuport AIs are just capable enough for target practice.

[BMA_Hellbender]

RoF has the Hanriot HD.1 (and 2). That's all a man of culture needs to know.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:53 PM, SeaSerpent said:

If someone is very, very new, Rise of Flight has a tutorial that is worth doing.

 

 

Didn't we have to complete that Spad series in J5 as part of our Feldwebel cert.

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:36 PM, J5_Klugermann said:

Didn't we have to complete that Spad series in J5 as part of our Feldwebel cert.

 

For Flieger cert.  Your' lucky you ever made it to Feldwebel! ?

Edited October 29, 2022 by J5_Baeumer

[YoYo]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:17 PM, MilonRouge said:

Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong section, i'm fairly new to Il-2 and am just trying to figure out what order to get things.  I was planning on getting Flying Circus Vol. 1 (and Tank Crew) next time there was a sale, but while watching some videos on it and Rise of Flight i saw some people saying that FC flight model was simplified from what RoF has.  I'm not sure if this is true or not, so i figured i'd ask here and see what the general consensus is on the differences between FC and RoF, especially when it comes to how the planes feel and operate?  Also, is the single-player for FC as fleshed-out as the BoS one? I defs would love to play multiplayer, but i do enjoy single-player stuff as well.  I do like that FC can be played with the other Great Battles games, so that's defs a huge plus.  Any other feedback would be super-helpful as well! ?

According me the FM is close to RoF but the biggest problem for me is that FC vol1 and 2 isnt (really) for single players - no any big and official campaignes over the front like it was in RoF or BoX. Kind of missions also are very limited capared to RoF.

 

Its a very pity for me. They promised the new map and dynamic campaigne but when we will see it I dont know, 2023, 2024? Till now I dont buy any additional collector planes because I dont have what to do here.

[J2_Trupobaw]

The assets for new maps are tickling in with new updates and are visible in mission editor. How far and fast the development is, and how is it affected by 2022 being 2022, is anyones guess.

[MilonRouge]

Update:  So i ended up getting both Flying Circus volumes and i'm loving them so far!  I'll probs go back and get some of the Rise of Flight stuff later on, but hopefully there will be more FC volumes in the future.  Big thanks for everyone's input on here!)))

[Red_Von_Hammer]

Not to sorta necro (it probably is) but what I don't like about RoF is the damage model introduced in 2014, wildly inferior compared to FC, 2-3 hits to the wings and you're out which is the only reason tail gunners are so effective in RoF, the FC tail gunners hit just as much, but because wings dont immediately collapse people dont fall out of the air all the time.

Some allege that this damage model is adjustable on server side, if that's the case then why aren't servers changing it to more realistic values? Most of the time they'd be hosing eachother IRL without planes collapsing mid-air such as depicted in RoF.

The ground fire in most of the RoF servers leaves something to be desired as well, absolutely untenable.
I can barely cross the mud when running away (pretty low) without getting clocked, even when I survive the usual scrap or two, but things that were historically pretty random (Mannock got it from ground fire, he was unlucky) causing death on nearly every single sortie = Gets old.

Don't get me wrong, have had a few good times in RoF after the patch, but they're far and few in between, had I known then what I know now I wouldn't have invested so heavily in it.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, Red_Von_Hammer said:

Not to sorta necro (it probably is) but what I don't like about RoF is the damage model introduced in 2014, wildly inferior compared to FC, 2-3 hits to the wings and you're out which is the only reason tail gunners are so effective in RoF, the FC tail gunners hit just as much, but because wings dont immediately collapse people dont fall out of the air all the time.

You could try this mod by VonS: RoF United Ed. AI/DM & Other Mods. (Consolidated) - ROF File Announcements - CombatACE

 

Or the Reduced Lethality mod: Updated/Fixed Links to Panther's Favorite Mods - 3rd Party Mods & Software - Rise of Flight Forum

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

4 hours ago, Red_Von_Hammer said:

the damage model introduced in 2014,

They didn't change DM , they reduced gun dispersion (new data found during   research for WW2 guns) and added this to realism option, anyway in most servers this  option was disabled.

[Red_Von_Hammer]

On 12/2/2022 at 10:16 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

They didn't change DM , they reduced gun dispersion (new data found during   research for WW2 guns) and added this to realism option, anyway in most servers this  option was disabled.

If you say so, but personally I have issues connecting that with how singular hits immediately made wings look like alcoholic livers.
"rata..." and that's as far as it goes, "PFAP" followed by "SNAP", duels/dogfights/furballs finishing before they even begin.
Entire servers died, went from fully packed events to maybe 20-30 diehards, max, on the weekends, DM mods weren't even so much as considered.
And from what I've seen, numbers usually aren't too much better in FC, WW1 MP literally died with introduction of arcade DM for RoF.
Krispy pointed it out far more tactfully than me:



Comparatively, in FC I've recently had a row of duels with a very capable DR.1 pilot (if you're here, you know who you are, S!), and one of them lasted 10-15 mins, after continuously blasting away at each other, swapping positions.
This DM is infinitely more enjoyable, worth every ounce of effort the devs put into it, and I applaud that, add VR into the mix and FC comes out on top right now.
"Right now" being the words to focus on, "best WW1 sim" or "best WW2 sim" or "best jet sim", such titles are, as we all know, always in a state of flux.


 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

11 hours ago, Red_Von_Hammer said:

f you say so, but personally I have issues connecting that with how singular hits immediately made wings look like alcoholic livers.
"rata..." and that's as far as it goes, "PFAP" followed by "SNAP", duels/dogfights/furballs finishing before they even begin.
Entire servers died, went from fully packed events to maybe 20-30 diehards, max, on the weekends, DM mods weren't even so much as considered.
And from what I've seen, numbers usually aren't too much better in FC, WW1 MP literally died with introduction of arcade DM for RoF.
Krispy pointed it out far more tactfully than me:

It was exactly this , with bigger disposition you would spreay more and  hit les particural wing hitboxes with realistic dispersion you would hit particual hitbox (plane wing has only three or four hit boxes) and amout of hits in one hitbox  would cose to wings fall off with G load.Wings strength was not adapted to new realistic dispersion.  Finally we have it now in FC after 2 years -)

Edited December 13, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Guest deleted@219798]

I've had Rise of Flight since 2010. When it was updated so that you could blast the wings off an enemy plane at 250m plus, that took a lot of the enjoyment away. When I installed DM mods by VonS that fixed that, now planes are going down mostly with engine fires or pilots killed. So now it's more realistic again. RoF was always something I loved, to be able to fly the WW1 planes I'd read about since I was about 12. I still remember the first plane I shot down. Until FC has planes like Halberstadt DII, Alabatros DII, DIII and Roland CII, FC will just be a pale imitation. The developers have been so slow at releasing anything we'll be waiting a long time before there is anything like the variety of planes available in RoF. Where's career mode? Still waiting on that. We don't all do multi player.

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

Very true about the mods for RoF - definitely worth exploring and they offer some nice changes to the game. I liked what the DM mod did for RoF and I also recall having a texture/bump map mod that really transformed the landscape as well. Good stuff for an older but still enjoyable game.

[Red_Von_Hammer]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:21 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

It was exactly this , with bigger disposition you would spreay more and  hit les particural wing hitboxes with realistic dispersion you would hit particual hitbox (plane wing has only three or four hit boxes) and amout of hits in one hitbox  would cose to wings fall off with G load.Wings strength was not adapted to new realistic dispersion.  Finally we have it now in FC after 2 years -)

Not to put the vice on you, but that's still foreign to me, because if wing strength or hitboxes wasn't adjusted, doesn't that fall under DM?
Either way it makes sense, and I'll take the correction to heart by referring to it as "gun dispersion" from now on.
Thx Husar ?

Not to take away from the intense labor of love that RoF certainly was (at one point), RB3D was obsolete long before RoF's inception.
RoF was a much needed refreshment for WW1 MP, and to be fair, they delivered beyond my expectations.
The most I hoped for was an island map and 20 planes, but FC already has more than that now, and RoF has even more content.
 
To me it's a touchy subject, 3 wingmen (friends) of mine passed away IRL (r.i.p) while we waited in vain for them to revert the change.
And that's not counting the old school ww1 simmers that didn't much care for the combination of F2P & last minute gun dispersion change, most of those completely left the scene all together.
The last-minute gun dispersion change simply turned off a great many hard-won loyal customers.

RoF opened the door for GB (may not have funded it, but it was certainly something to put on the resume for potential funders), and while GB is the rats nats, FC, from the vibe I'm getting here, isn't even selling well enough for a Vol.3 or separate WW1 UI, much less a separate sim all on it's own.
IMO the consequence of the last-minute fate of RoF has reared it's ugly nose again.

And that's why I can't recommend RoF.
Even with mods purely and explicitly for SP, you're still navigating a monument to the "so and so's" that abused devs trust and ruined not just RoF, but WW1 MP all together.

With that in mind, we can still get by with FC.
For what it is, I heartily recommend FC Vol.1-2, even with a fair idea (again, from the vibe I'm getting here) that after Career mode, Siemens-Schuckert & Sopwith Snipe, chances are it's all we're going to get for a good while, if ever.
Kudos to the devs for putting in the considerable effort, with barely a minute and paper-clip to spare in budget! ?

Edited December 19, 2022 by Red_Von_Hammer

[US41_Low]

A FM review for FC may be possible considering the community member about to publish a book detailing his simulation results. Think we’re all interested to see it. 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

There's some hard truth to the above statement that demand for a WW1 flight sim tends to be lower than we in the community credit. As much as something like FC deserves to be a standalone, separate thing with the physics tailored to WW1 aircraft, I agree that I don't see that happening anytime soon. I know that when one of the WW2 servers has run some occasional WW1 missions, a fair number of players jump in, see the WW1 setting and immediately leave for a WW2 server. Some people stay, but there is certainly a substantial number of people who are WW2-only.

 

But the recent changes have been steps in the right direction and FM improvements based on new data would be another step in the right direction. Things are improving again lately, and that's something at least.

Edited December 19, 2022 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[Dupxo]

RoF at its times was a jaw-dropping game. After all this years and couple of mods (e.g bump-mapping, Reduced Lethality) it is still great game. Flying Circus does NOT cause jaw dropping, maybe just little smile. At first time it looks nice but after couple of hours you realise that in 2022 for a relatively high price you get:

 

- completely flat textured No Mans Land with bare tree trunks sticking out like toothpicks from a cake - it is 2005 game feature!;

- shimmering;

- only parts of Western Front Map and only in spring texture;

- completely non-existing Single Player Mode from developers - PWCG for the rescue again;

- problems (feature) with LOD, blurried landscape textures - RoF has the same problem but this is game from 2009! There was a tweak, solution for FC with terrain.cfg file but developers "patched" it away;

- very, very slow progress of the game;

- worse than RoF water textures + rivers and lakes have sand beach shores - thanks to modders there is a mod for normal shores

- when plane hit the ground hard its fuselage goes boom and then dance in the air - pure comedy (the same situation was in Red Baron 3D, but this was in 1995)

 

And some good things:

 

- nice planes textures;

- better default DM than in RoF - in RoF multiplayer was unplayable for me - few hits in your wings and you were destroyed;

- some nice features like: parachutes for baloon crew and german pilots, jumping out from machine without parachute (hehe), more active front;

- possibility of breaking control cables and more complex DM at all;

- living multiplayer;

Edited December 20, 2022 by Wardog5711
Removed profanity