Fw 190 A-8 Markings of Stab III./JG 54

[LukeFF]

The only Fw 190 A-8 from Stab III./JG 54 I can find reference to is Robert Weiss's Black 10. Two questions about that plane:

 

• Was this plane photographed after he became the unit's commander?
• If so, did the rest of the Stabschwarm simply use planes with numerals and not chevrons?

 

The plane in question:

 

Spoiler

 

[actionjoe]

Hi, in his book on JG 54, Philippe Saintes writes that Shroer (previous Gruppenkommandeur) was sent to hospital for sickness in late may. Then, Robert Weiss received the temporary command of the unit (he will keep it until his death on 29/12/1944). III/JG 54 moved to France and Villacoublay Sud 6/7 june 1944.

Legend of the same picture you have shown says it was taken at Villacoublay.

 

So yes, we can assume that "Black 10" was photographed after Weiss became Gruppenkommandeur.

 

In the same book, on a loss table, there is a mention of a Fw 190 A8 (Wnr 170736) "Black 3" from Stab III./JG 54 flown by Oblt. Eugen-Ludwig Zweigart (shot down and killed by P51s while on his parachute on 8/06/1944).

 

Saintes, Philippe. 2020. Jagdgeschwader 54 : les aigles au « coeur vert » de la Luftwaffe t2. Histoire des unités. Lela presse.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, actionjoe said:

Hi, in his book on JG 54, Philippe Saintes writes that Shroer (previous Gruppenkommandeur) was sent to hospital for sickness in late may. Then, Robert Weiss received the temporary command of the unit (he will keep it until his death on 29/12/1944). III/JG 54 moved to France and Villacoublay Sud 6/7 june 1944.

Legend of the same picture you have shown says it was taken at Villacoublay.

 

So yes, we can assume that "Black 10" was photographed after Weiss became Gruppenkommandeur.

 

In the same book, on a loss table, there is a mention of a Fw 190 A8 (Wnr 170736) "Black 3" from Stab III./JG 54 flown by Oblt. Eugen-Ludwig Zweigart (shot down and killed by P51s while on his parachute on 8/06/1944).

 

Saintes, Philippe. 2020. Jagdgeschwader 54 : les aigles au « coeur vert » de la Luftwaffe t2. Histoire des unités. Lela presse.

 

Thank you!

 

So, I've come up with a plan, which keeps the unit markings consistent between Normandy and Rhineland: for Normandy, III./JG 54 will have yellow numbers along with the yellow vertical bar indicative of 9./JG 54. Since only one set of colors can be chosen, I'll remove the chevrons for the commander and assistant commander and assign them to Yellow 1 and Yellow 2.

 

For Rhineland, the colors will switch to white, since after the reorganization of August 1944 9./JG 54 became the "first" staffel of III. Gruppe and hence had their Dora-9s painted with white numerals. No chevrons for the commander and assistant commander, and no vertical bar (the latter already a feature of the unit in this phase of the war). The commander and assistant commander will now fly in White 1 and White 2.

Edited October 18, 2022 by LukeFF

[MarcoPegase44]

9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Thank you!

 

So, I've come up with a plan, which keeps the unit markings consistent between Normandy and Rhineland: for Normandy, III./JG 54 will have yellow numbers along with the yellow vertical bar indicative of 9./JG 54. Since only one set of colors can be chosen, I'll remove the chevrons for the commander and assistant commander and assign them to Yellow 1 and Yellow 2.

 

For Rhineland, the colors will switch to white, since after the reorganization of August 1944 9./JG 54 became the "first" staffel of III. Gruppe and hence had their Dora-9s painted with white numerals. No chevrons for the commander and assistant commander, and no vertical bar (the latter already a feature of the unit in this phase of the war). The commander and assistant commander will now fly in White 1 and White 2.

Hello

 

See Here

 

And Here

 

[LukeFF]

Expanding on from III./JG 54, I've identified these Normandy and Rhineland units as ones that should not be using chevrons:

 

I./JG 1

III./JG 1

IV./JG 4

III./JG 26

 

Plus, III./JG 52 at Stalingrad was essentially a detachment from 9./JG 52. The rest of the unit was stationed farther south. 

 

So, in the next release, it's planned that these units will have numbers only and no chevrons for the command staff. 

[sevenless]

8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

III./JG 26

 

IIRC III./JG 26 abandoned the chevrons mid/end of march 44. Look up Klaus Mietuschs planes 22 and 25. IIRC first pictures of his 22 are dated 26th of march 44 when he was awarded the RK. Colour for the staff plane numbers was black.

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2018/09/

 

On 10/18/2022 at 11:00 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Thank you!

 

So, I've come up with a plan, which keeps the unit markings consistent between Normandy and Rhineland: for Normandy, III./JG 54 will have yellow numbers along with the yellow vertical bar indicative of 9./JG 54. Since only one set of colors can be chosen, I'll remove the chevrons for the commander and assistant commander and assign them to Yellow 1 and Yellow 2.

 

For Rhineland, the colors will switch to white, since after the reorganization of August 1944 9./JG 54 became the "first" staffel of III. Gruppe and hence had their Dora-9s painted with white numerals. No chevrons for the commander and assistant commander, and no vertical bar (the latter already a feature of the unit in this phase of the war). The commander and assistant commander will now fly in White 1 and White 2.

 

Yes, or take Dortenmanns squadron with red numbers. Makes IMHO a lot of sense to bring numbering down to squadron level. Never understood the concept to represent Gruppen in career mode for the germans.

Edited October 20, 2022 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, sevenless said:

IIRC III./JG 26 abandoned the chevrons mid/end of march 44. Look up Klaus Mietuschs planes 22 and 25. IIRC first pictures of his 22 are dated 26th of march 44 when he was awarded the RK. Colour for the staff plane numbers was black.

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2018/09/

 

Thanks! Yes, I had Klaus's planes in mind when choosing to drop the chevrons from this unit. The colors will continue to be black as well.

 

9 hours ago, sevenless said:

Yes, or take Dortenmanns squadron with red numbers. Makes IMHO a lot of sense to bring numbering down to squadron level. Never understood the concept to represent Gruppen in career mode for the germans.

 

I hear you on that. On the one hand, I would too also like to have just all numbers at the staffel level, but with the numbers limited to 1-9, having separate chevrons for the commander and adjutant at least breaks up the repetitiveness a small bit. Ideally, I'd like to have German numbers run from about 1-25, so that then there's a lot more variety like with all the other nation's planes. Hopefully one day that'll happen. ?

Edited October 20, 2022 by LukeFF

[Bremspropeller]

Oesau (Kommodore JG 2) flew "Green 13" (Fw 190A-5) in summer of 1943, after JG 2 converted from chevros for Stab aircraft, to two-digit numbers.

Looks like the process has been more or less fluid and not all-encompassing (you'll find chevroned Kommodore 190s in JG 2 in 1944).